Why the Corruption Flourishes during PPP regime ?
 

Although pakistan has always been considered among the corrupt countries of the world, but what i have observed is that whenever the PPP govt. comes in power, the scale and magnitude of corruption increases many folds.
Is this a special attribute attached with the People's Party or some forces take advantage of the soft attitude of PPP towards the corrupts ?
Your comments plz.

[QUOTE=Sociologist PU;184079]Although pakistan has always been considered among the corrupt countries of the world, but what i have observed is that whenever the PPP govt. comes in power, the scale and magnitude of corruption increases many folds.
Is this a special attribute attached with the People's Party or some forces take advantage of the soft attitude of PPP towards the corrupts ?
Your comments plz.[/QUOTE]

Although in every government corruption is the main objective of every member of the governing party. I agree with your comments that whenever PPP come into power the scale and magnitude increases, this is not because of PPP's soft image towards some forces but it is becaue of party strucuture.
PPP is the single party of Pakistan in which there is majorrity of feudal lords(Sardar Shahi), so because of their ill attitude towards the system. PPP is famous and leads all the time in the field of corruption:sad
They usually appoint many officers on a fixed rate and their priority is to appoint all their near and dears.
And also one more reason for this all other parties except PPP, are pro-establishment parties, and from Zulfiqar Ali Bhtto to Ms.Benzair, they all were anti-establishment so during their regime they are very much exposed through various channels:busy

[QUOTE=Sociologist PU;184079]Although pakistan has always been considered among the corrupt countries of the world, but what i have observed is that whenever the PPP govt. comes in power, the scale and magnitude of corruption increases many folds.
Is this a special attribute attached with the People's Party or some forces take advantage of the soft attitude of PPP towards the corrupts ?
Your comments plz.[/QUOTE]

it is not a common at this time... pakistan has crossed the coruption list and got a grade in crouption.... due of guilty leader's ever we call our lukness or badness every time we got corrupt leader's and from peon to president all are thiefs.. in benazir governemt they done record corruption...

Well, the question arise here is why the voters of Pakistan select them again and again inspite of the fact that they are proven corrupt ?
I am using the word "voters" cuz all the people dont vote in election and maximum turn out in the election is around 50%.
Is this due to the fact that in all election there are same voters and same canidates everytime and remaining 50% dont turn up ?
And if the remaining 50% also came out to cast their votes, the result would be surprising ?
lets deleberate as there is no other way to bring change. :sad

PPP stands on the strength of its die hard workers. These very people are its vote bank and generate the support from amongst the masses. So whenever PPP comes to power, it tries to reward its workers by hook or by crook. The range of workers vary from lowest level to the highest.

Ohh, i see, good point.
I also know some of the highest level "workers" being rewarded these days. :clap
Not sure about the low level workers.

[B][QUOTE=xavier;184088]Although in every government corruption is the main objective of every member of the governing party.[/QUOTE]

agreed

[QUOTE]I agree with your comments that whenever PPP come into power the scale and magnitude increases, this is not because of PPP's soft image towards some forces but it is becaue of party strucuture.[/QUOTE]

In my personal opinion it needs a debate

[QUOTE]PPP is the single party of Pakistan in which there is majorrity of feudal lords(Sardar Shahi)[/QUOTE]

agreed
[QUOTE]
so because of their ill attitude towards the system, PPP is famous and leads all the time in the field of corruption:sad[/QUOTE]


:thinking
[QUOTE]
They usually appoint many officers on a fixed rate and their priority is to appoint all their near and dears.[/QUOTE]

agreed

[COLOR="Navy"]But the core debate is still there; let me put the Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's reign for Curruption debate (The real PPP's period). You will find the lowest ever Curruption rate in Pakistan History i.e. 1.43 % according to Transparancy International Report which I have already shared in other thread.[/COLOR]

This will automatically negate your core thought, I do agree with your secondary and additional reasonings but the most important is leadership capability which matters a lot.

[QUOTE]And also one more reason for this all other parties except PPP, are pro-establishment parties, and from Zulfiqar Ali Bhtto to Ms.Benzair, they all were anti-establishment so during their regime they are very much exposed through various channels[/QUOTE]

Brilliant ! I do agree with your statement but you have to fix the responsibility on leadership which provoked curruption in their reigns. [/B]

[B][COLOR="Darkgreen"]
Let me put some figures for Governmental comparison on basis of curruption:[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR="navy"]General Ayyub khan = 2.14 %

Z A Bhutto = 1.43 %

General Zia = 1.54 %

Benazir Bhutto (88-90) = 8 %

Nawaz Shareef (90-93) = 10 %

Benazir Bhutto (93-95) = 48 %

Nawaz Shareef (96-99) = 38 %

General Musharraf (99-02) = 34 %

General Musharraf (02-06) = 67 %[/COLOR][/B]

[B]This report of transparancy international was published in end of 2006 so you could compare the ruling elites.

I don't have updated info with me but I am 100 % sure that curruption would be more than Musharraf's regime.

Regards





[/B]

@ txned
I agree that leadership does matter, i welcome your every comment and criticism and also welcome any debate on party structure.

I wonder what they do with the ill-gotten money as a person has a limited time span in his/her life and all the huge amount they collect remained there in lockers and bank accounts without any use to everyone.

[QUOTE=Sociologist PU;184264]I wonder what they do with the ill-gotten money as a person has a limited time span in his/her life and all the huge amount they collect remained there in lockers and bank accounts without any use to everyone.[/QUOTE]

Munir niazi once said "Quran aise haseen kitab hai ke bezameer logo se pardha kar lete hai".
Although we are Muslim country but majority of the parliamentarian did not know how to read The Quran, when majority do not know what Quran and Islam says," then how could they understand that corruption is a criminal offense".
I hope you get my point.

[QUOTE=maliasghar;184224]PPP stands on the strength of its die hard workers. These very people are its vote bank and generate the support from amongst the masses. So whenever PPP comes to power, it tries to reward its workers by hook or by crook. The range of workers vary from lowest level to the highest.[/QUOTE]

M.Ali sahab, please don't cover the ill-happening. Die hard workers were died on 27th December when Ms.Benazir Bhutto was killed. I ask you one question how many PPP workers could get employment. I belong to interior sindh i know what are conditions over there, those workers who scarified their lives for PPP they are suffering, even they couldn't get meal for two times a day:thinking
Look at the practical things what Chandias family who were killed during Zia regime what did they get, 28 young boys were killed in MRD. Now there siblings are suffering and arguing that, this was a big mistake that they sacrificed for PPP:sad

It has also been observed that only those reap the profit, who have made an investment, i.e they pay heavy amount to party leadres for getting party ticket. And if they lost in election, they are accomodated in other ways so that they can get back their invested amount with profit.
A very good example of this is the gentleman who lost election but was made chairman of a Trust, where he sold the land of the Trust and resigned. (mission completed)
There are many example like this whcih shows the methodology of the Corrupt and how they make money and fled the country when the PPP govt. is about to collapse.

I totally agree with you that not all workers get the benefit in the same coin. There indeed are internal dissections. For an outsiders, they claim to be one monolith party, however, as we all know well that it is not the case. So, whichever faction gains strength tries to stuff their cronies. Take two recent examples: (i) The reinstatement of PPP workers fired by Nawaz regime in 90's, and subsequent award of backdated promotions and service benefits to them. (ii) release of many prisoners in the 'honour' of passage of 18th amendment. Don't you think that these very people in these two cases would have a softer corner for PPP, and the families that have benefitted as a result of these actions would naturally become an added vote bank for the party.
What I am trying to say here is that instead of working for the wider public, PPP aims at providing some benefit to a small lot of loyalists who can then gather the mass for their campaigns.

[B][QUOTE=xavier;184250]@ txned
I agree that leadership does matter[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much !

[QUOTE]i welcome your every comment and criticism[/QUOTE]

You are so kind ! You are a brilliant writer of the forum and I ever like your opinions which lead me to gain much knowledge for myself.

[QUOTE]and also welcome any debate on party structure.[/QUOTE]

I think I will definitely come back to learn more on this specific point of Party Structure ; but after tomorrow's election.

I am campaigning at the moment so busy in many things but will get back to you later hopefully.

Needy for your wishes for tomorrow's elections

Regards


[/B]

[QUOTE=tx_ned;184399][B]

Thank you so much !



You are so kind ! You are a brilliant writer of the forum and I ever like your opinions which lead me to gain much knowledge for myself.



I think I will definitely come back to learn more on this specific point of Party Structure ; but after tomorrow's election.

I am campaigning at the moment so busy in many things but will get back to you later hopefully.

Needy for your wishes for tomorrow's elections

Regards


[/B][/QUOTE]

I wish you good luck for the election, by the way i also want to know to whom you are supporting???
And please after election discuss the new parliament of UK and also discuss their foreign policy, and Muslims' position after elections?????
Regards:))

Ya, and also compare the British methods of corruption with the pakistani methods. :haha

[B][QUOTE=xavier;184486]I wish you good luck for the election[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much
[QUOTE]
by the way i also want to know to whom you are supporting???[/QUOTE]

I am member of Labour Party and was busy to work as Campaign Assistant for Gorton Constituency, Manchester. You may find the result of my constituency on [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/election2010/results/constituency/c81.stm[/url]

[QUOTE]And please after election discuss the new parliament of UK[/QUOTE]

I will definitely get back to you with updated information on asked topic shortly.

[QUOTE]and also discuss their foreign policy, and Muslims' position after elections?????[/QUOTE]

Normally policies remain the same, Foreign Policy regarding Afghanistan & Iraq would probably be changed as it is the question of the day. Muslim position is quite sound here in UK so election wont pose any disastrous effect. Conservatives will do worse for them hopefully.

[COLOR="Navy"]@ Socialist PU[/COLOR]

[QUOTE]also compare the British methods of corruption with the pakistani methods.[/QUOTE]

British Politicians are also currupt and they are used to have white collar curruption in a quite systematic way but in Pakistan Politicians do have curruption without any hesitation openly.

Regards



[/B]

@tx-ned
Conservative party doesn't have a narrow and harsh policies for South Asia and also some papers wrote that they are racist and usually MUslims of UK do suffer where they got representation,,, I need your opnion on this specific issue
Regards

salamona
 

As for as corruption in pp's tenure is concerned,it is not because of lack of leadership or common sense,it is because all of our politicians are egocentric,self satisfied,greedy,materialists,having lust of cruelty and oriented towards self construction rather than having a soft corner for proletariat and common citizens.A government is no need to have more than 10 ministers,but here we are experiencing an opposite phenomenon,where each and every powerful candidate wields a pen.Moreover, majority of the pp candidates belong to feudal setup,having a autocratic perception who believe in altitude but not attitude.We are facing their self created complexion;in the shape of hoarding, acquiring percentage on developmental and non developmental funds,involving in criminal activities,supporting the white collar crime,making appointments on the basis of money accumulation disregarding the rule of law and surpassing the ethical discernments.
It is an established fact that in electoral process a candidate has to incur magnificent expenses in order to pacify the lobbying groups and to saturate the opposition.they do not hesitate to purchase the pious right of one's vote by exploiting one's poverty and haplessness and to some extent playing with one's moral degeneracy.Once a candidate is selected,he/she then does not spare any chance of extracting out money from the national pool and from the blood of populace.
Government in balochistan is a living example of such vexatious blunders,where majority of MPA's almost 96% have been assigned miniseries,even the singular provincial liberary of balochistan has a minister.It is all about to make money,to keep the collision partners satisfied and to loot the national economy with naked hands.

Good analysis :clap
But i think the Independent Judicary is the main hurdel in their way this time. Today i read in a paper that High Court has declared illegal the appointment of many employees who were recruited by the orders of a minister from his constituancy. :roll
And promotion of 54 fed. secretary to grade 22 by PM has also been reversed
by the Supereme Court earlier. They must be thinking of new ways to oblige their supporters now. :waiting

[B][QUOTE=Riaz Ahmed Alizai;185037]As for as corruption in pp's tenure is concerned,it is not because of lack of leadership or common sense[/QUOTE]

This is the point of disagreement between us as I am putting forward Mr. Z A Bhutto's reign for debate again i.e. the least currupt tenure of Pakistan with 1.43 %

[QUOTE]
it is because all of our politicians are egocentric,self satisfied, greedy, materialists, having lust of cruelty and oriented towards self construction rather than having a soft corner for proletariat and common citizens[/QUOTE]

Valid reasoning but not the primary cause because all of above factors participate in this phenomenon as secondary considerations, in my personal opinion as Z A Bhutto proved his regime with the available lot of politicians the least currupt Government.

[QUOTE]A government is no need to have more than 10 ministers,but here we are experiencing an opposite phenomenon,where each and every powerful candidate wields a pen.[/QUOTE]

Who runs the Government? Would you not catch the leader to fix the responsibility for your said bug?

[QUOTE]Moreover, majority of the pp candidates belong to feudal setup,having a autocratic perception who believe in altitude but not attitude.[/QUOTE]

Hopefully we were having more rigid fuedal lords in Z A Bhutto's time but why did they not perform in such a sense of today?

[QUOTE]We are facing their self created complexion;in the shape of hoarding, acquiring percentage on developmental and non developmental funds,involving in criminal activities,supporting the white collar crime,making appointments on the basis of money accumulation disregarding the rule of law and surpassing the ethical discernments.[/QUOTE]

All above mentioned crimes should seriously conducted in his period also to flourish the curruption but history witnessed not to be so.


[QUOTE]It is an established fact that in electoral process a candidate has to incur magnificent expenses in order to pacify the lobbying groups and to saturate the opposition.[/QUOTE]

I really agree the said factor to consider it as an important secondary or tertiary element in today's politics. People wanted change at the time of Z A Bhutto so Dr. Mubashar Hassan like guys were elected in his time.

[QUOTE]they do not hesitate to purchase the pious right of one's vote by exploiting one's poverty and haplessness and to some extent playing with one's moral degeneracy.Once a candidate is selected,he/she then does not spare any chance of extracting out money from the national pool and from the blood of populace.[/QUOTE]

Another bad aftermath of such a stinking usage of immoral and unjust resources to exploit the poor's mind.


[QUOTE]Government in balochistan is a living example of such vexatious blunders,where majority of MPA's almost 96% have been assigned miniseries,even the singular provincial liberary of balochistan has a minister.It is all about to make money,to keep the collision partners satisfied and to loot the national economy with naked hands.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed

You have illustrated the reasons in very pretty manner but you did not agree on basic and primary aspect of this vicious crime i.e. Absense of devoted leadership.

Let me explain my words for you again, If PPP has a leader like Z A Bhutto who does not tolerate on curruption and unfair usage of country resources, nobody would have courage to do so as you mentioned in your precious post.

If Prime Minister is a loyal to his homeland like Z A Bhutto, no one could have enjoyed the benifits in shape of your drawn portrait as such a minister would never get second term party ticket then.

Administeration relates to the management and the best definition of management is to utilize your resources in the best way i.e. effective and efficient.

The top leadership play the primary role in building of nations and socities.

We are facing the same trouble since 1988 in PPP reigns coz Benazir Bhutto did not have those leadership and administerative capabilities which her father had practised at his time.

Regards [/B]

Now the report of Transparency International has confimed that corruption has increased many fold in the PPP rule, and on the other hand it has decreased in Punjab as the PPP is not ruling here. :pipe

[QUOTE=Sociologist PU;189606]Now the report of Transparency International has confimed that corruption has increased many fold in the PPP rule, and on the other hand it has decreased in Punjab as the PPP is not ruling here. :pipe[/QUOTE]


[B]Dear Transparency report is not completly credible and transparent, we souldnt blindly rely upon it.

have they any black n white proof about corruption of provinces n departments? and their way of conducting survey is also questionable.

They ask few questions to few people n design report. How can we come to know about those people who were questioned ?

Ur input is awaited,

Regards. [/B]

poor moral values are the root cause of corruption. We can cheat any system . But strong moral values are not cheated . Try to improve your moral stength . It begins from your own home.

TI is a reputed organization with well-tested research methods that can be used in this type of research. You cant use a questionaire and neither u can select a sample to collect data as nobody will tell u the truth in a formal survey. However, if u ask in private after taking a person in confidence, s/he will tell u the truth.
By the way, ask any person on the street about his openion about corruption and u will get similary results as of TI report.

[QUOTE=Sociologist PU;189606]Now the report of Transparency International has confimed that corruption has increased many fold in the PPP rule, and on the other hand it has decreased in Punjab as the PPP is not ruling here. :pipe[/QUOTE]




u r right brother.
the report has really disappointed all and sundry.
it shows the inefficiency and incompetence of the PPP regime.
they hv to take up the gauntlet and think about the future of pakistan.
otherwise i dun think that they r going to be treated as lesser than those of Sher Afghan and Arbab Ghulam Rahim.
if they continue to loot the public purse and entangle the nation in more and more severe crises, we the people of Pakistan are really going to be at the receiving end.
of course, the report of TI has disappointed us and hurt us so badly.


[B]and as far as the validity of the reports of TI are concerned, i may tell u that this organization has gained reputation worldwide due to the accuracy of its reports.it is world recognized organization.
[/B]
Thanx.
ALLAH BLESS PAKISTAN.

[B]Dear members,

[COLOR="navy"]Let me apologise to comment that Political will to discourage the corruption culture could not be seen in current regime of PPP which leads me to accept the TI Report with following link.[/COLOR]

[url]http://www.transparency.org.pk/report/ncps%202010/press%20release%20embargo.pdf[/url]


The question of honourable member [COLOR="Navy"]Invincible[/COLOR] is valid "Why should we believe in this report?" and I think [COLOR="navy"]Sociologist PU[/COLOR] has rightly responded the query.

I am trying to put following links for understanding of TI working style:

[url]http://www.transparency.org/[/url]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International[/url]

[url]http://www.transparency.org.pk/[/url]

[url]http://www.transparency.org.pk/org/Organogram.pdf[/url]

[url]http://www.transparency.org.pk/prog/TI-P%20Strategic%20Plan.pdf[/url]

[url]http://www.transparency.org.pk/documents/NACS.pdf[/url]

Hope these links might help you guys to understand Transparancy International.

Regards



[/B]