Islam, secularism and Pakistan
 

There is demand from many quarters of life that Pakistan should be declared secular state because religion is a personal matter and government should exist separately from religion. There should be separation of religion and politics, where the government treats every religion equally with same rights and privileges and where no religion is suproir to another in the eyes of government.

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State”.

"In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims-Hindus, Christians and Parsis -- but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan." Quaid-i-Azam, Feb. 1948 [1]


In 1946,Quaid-e-Azam declared:

"We do not demand Pakistan simply to have a piece of land but we want a Laboratory where we could experiment on Islamic principles."
ADDRESS ON 18TH JUNE 1945

We have studied from history that creation of Pakistan was based on the ideological commitments in the light of the religion Islam. Creation of Pakistan was a revolt against the prevailing system of India where the Hindu culture was forcibly imposed on the Muslims of sub-continent and their culture. We studied that Pakistan should be a state, where the Muslims should have an opportunity to live according to their faith and creed based on principles of Islam.
[B]
Please share your views in this regard. [/B]

Secularism, damn it!
 

we didnt need pakistan if after all it had to be secular.The base of pakistan is KALIMA.it means pakistan was built in the name of ALLah n HIS messenger.and when it comes to minorities and thier due rights, then none should bother, Islam protects all.be it its followers or deviants.the problem is that we have not been able to implement ISLAMic system of governance since emergence of pakistan.had we done that in time, this debate would not have taken roots.

Pakistan ;an ideological state.
 

The discussion whether Pakistan should be Islamic or Secular state is an old one but answer is quite simple.It is vital for young generation of Pakistan to know correctly about Pakistan movement.Pakistan movement was based upon a legitimate,legal,political and democratic struggle by the Muslims of subcontinent for a piece of land where they could live according to principles of Islam,this struugle was based primarily upon Islam,Two-nation theory,and preservation of political ,social and economic rights of Muslims.The 3 prime differences between the Muslims and Hindus were Religious,Cultural and Linguistic.As far as rights of minorities are concerned ,they are safest in a truly Islamic state and as far as secular states are concerned ,let our eyes be opened to both past and present.It was so called "secular"congress which had formed govt in British ruled India from 1937 to 1939 and history reveals that it was the "worst"period for minorities i.e Muslims .Muslims were denied all political,economic,civil rights,the list of injustices done against Muslims by "secular"congress is too long to present here ,but it lead Quaideazam gave the slogan to British govt :"Divide and leave",the conclusion you can form wisely.

Emma Duncan says:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]“There are two sorts of nations, those rooted in the soil and those rooted in the ideas. India belongs to the first category, Pakistan on the other hand, was created by the descendents of people who thundered into the area from Tashkent, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arab, with the sword in one hand, the Koran in the other, and an idea in their heads___ an idea if conquest, expansion or conversion.”[/COLOR]
It is a fact that Pakistan was solely achieved for the free practice of Islamic Principles and laws. Here we enforce the Islamic injunctions of fraternity and equality in the light of our endeared hopes and aspirations. As far as the religious freedom for minorities is concerned, Islam gives them a right to practice their own religious believes.
Religion should not be stated the personal matter at government level, because Pakistan has ideological foundations i.e.., Islamic foundations, our ideology was, is and will two- nation theory consist of Islamic Ideology.
[COLOR="SeaGreen"]It will our ideological death if we declare Pakistan a secular state.[/COLOR]

I appreciate your comments but it is said that on the name of religion minorities are persecuted in Pakistan. Instead of depicting true image of Islam we have destroyed its image. Due to Taliban menace every Muslim is regarded as terrorist in every corner of the world. Pakistan is considered to the stronghold of Al-Qaeda and blamed for double game in Afghanistan. Why our country is breeding ground of such activities which ultimately creates problem for the integrity and stability of our country?

Islam as a state religion is confined to the the documents only and it is not observed in the lives of the rulers. Corruption, nepotism, death of merit, immoral activities of rulers like fake degrees, rigging in election and their alleged involvement in such activities which are called "Gunah-e-Kabira". Are they not distorting the image of Islam? This is how they represent a country with Islam as a state religion.

Pakistan is a country where minor crimes are dealt with iron hands and those involved in embezzlement of billions are honored with high offices. A person involved in bicycle theft will be severely punished according to the law of the land and an influential is above law. In Islam we have the story of Fatima, when the Holy Prophet PBUH declared that even if she is my daughter Fatima R.A, she will not be spared if the allegation is proved.

Islam is decorated as a state religion in Pakistan with not observance in the affairs of the state as we have decorated the Holy Quran at homes. Islam is not the inheritance of Taliban or religious political parties, rather every Muslim can implement its laws and values. PPP, PML-N and other political parties can also follow the Islamic teachings in the country and implement the Islamic Const. with letter and spirit and protect the rights of minorities in the country.

so u mean for own mistake v should change the ideology of pakistan?????
v should change the base????? minority in pakistan r much more secure than any other world india is secular state (so called) minorities are safe their???? minorities r safe in Europe? Australia????? ethenic voilence is every where in world.
our problem is v became victim of inferior complex am sorry if anybody got hurt but thats true v start pointing out our mistake before anyone else can do. wat u think problems are with pakista only????? no every state has some problems but v instaed of finding right cure start passing such remarks which even more damag our image.
am not in favour of taliban but tell me when taliban were our allies how many blasts were made in pakistan?how mch army was deployed in northern borders?how peacful land was those area which are burning now??????
iam sorry i disagreee with this concept that if we declare our state secular every thing will b ok.... its like we start saying a loin a cat will it become cat?????

see wat our qauid said
“We Muslims have got everything-brains, intelligence, capacity, and courage
virtues that nations must possess. But two Things are lacking and I
want you to concentrate your attention on these. One thing is that
foreign domination from without and Hindu domination here, particularly
...on our economic life has caused a certain degeneration in these virtues
in us.” Muslim Legislators Convention Delhi, 11 April, 1946
This is our main problem still we are dominated by the hindu lifestyle from inside and our outer part is dominated by the foreigners on lifestyle and economic grounds so i request every true Pakistani to just think about it and walk in the path shown by our beloved Quaid.

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]aoa first of all we must know what secularism is.secularism does not necesserily always means AN IDEALOGY ROBBED OF RELIGIOUS CONTENT..if people think that allowing minorities to practise their religion freely is in violation of Islam,they must be rebuked,for Islam promotes co-existence,tolerance and optimistimism.
Then if all such rules(allowing freedom to minorities) emanate from non but Islamic idealogy itself,no one,neither religious nor the secular should have any problem with keeping Islam,a versatile n realistic religion,as the rudder for guiding and formulating state system.
we should have no qualms about the fact that BOTH are extremists; THOSE WHO SEEK SAPARATION OF RELIGION FROM POLITICS,for their knowledge is flawed both about the religion as well as worldly affairs, and also THOSE WHO THINK IMPOSING RELIGION IS LIKE ELIMINATING EVEY NON MUSLIM ELEMENT FROM THE SOCIETY,and hence there s no diffeence between the two apparantly opposit schools of thoughts ;the secular n the religious[/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=kiyani;190007]Emma Duncan says:

[COLOR=SeaGreen]“There are two sorts of nations, those rooted in the soil and those rooted in the ideas. India belongs to the first category, Pakistan on the other hand, was created by the descendents of people who thundered into the area from Tashkent, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arab, with the sword in one hand, the Koran in the other, and an idea in their heads___ an idea if conquest, expansion or conversion.”[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

aoa no disagreements with the later part of your post,but this one statement by duncan vents nothing but malice against the spread of Islam,for one of the propaganda against Islam is that it was spread through sword n thus its idealogy,its crux never touch any heart neither it(Islam) has any perfect follower ever.beware of such intellectual conspiracies..
regards

Secularism
 

@ Crown Prince
You are right that government should exist separately from religion but Govt. should never invest its efforts in making Pakistan Secular, it should be nutral.

@ Muhammad ali Awan
agreed that our new generation known nothing about hardhips of our elders in making Pakistan, an independent state. They must be aware of it.

No need to change ideology, just we need to be stable on our own values, believes. We have to analyse it critically, secularism is not a solution it is just a deviation of our core values which will certainly lead to destruction of nation.

pakistan:secular or islamic?
 

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Pakistan, i believe, is ideologically confused state. why is it so, here you are:
[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR="SeaGreen"][SIZE="4"][U][B]Confusing Statements of Our leaders.[/B][/U][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Allama Iqbal:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]"Juda ho deen siyasat se tu reh jati hai changazi."[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Jinnah:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]"Religion has got nothing to do with the business of the state."( Aug 11, 1947)[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Jinnah:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]"We do not demand Pakistan simply to have a piece of land but we want a Laboratory where we could experiment on Islamic principles." (1946)[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Jinnah:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]"In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. (1948).
[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR="SeaGreen"][SIZE="4"][B]Is Pakistan Islamic or secular at present?[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]Pakistan is neither Islamic nor secular..Had it been Islamic, there would not be two sets of law for the rulers(NRO) and for the ruled one> Nor did Military intervene in the politics, Etc...


Pakistan is not secular either.....Had it been secular, there would not have been attacks on non-muslims( christians and Ahmadis), nor had there been religios parties, nor there had been tussle btw shias and sunnis and so on....

[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR="SeaGreen"][SIZE="4"][B]what is meant by islamic and muslim state?[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]Islamic state is one where sharia is supreme constitution( example: Saudi Arabia) whereas Muslim state is one where Muslims are in majority( example Pakistan, Bangladesh etc)........
[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR="SeaGreen"][SIZE="4"][B]What is meant by secular state/secularism?
[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]secularism doesnt mean Atheism( disbelief in the existence of God). It means state has no religion of its own... Religion is personal and individual matter. such states provide religious liberty at individual level...(Example: USA, Spain, Germany etc..).
[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"][SIZE="4"][B]should pakistan be islamic or secular state???[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Pakistan should be Secular state.. there are many arguments for the support of this idea...here you are:
[/B][/COLOR]


1[COLOR="RoyalBlue"].[B]if we impose sharia, can the so called liberal pakistanis accept it???? no[/B][/COLOR]

2 [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]Which brand of sharia should we impose??/shia branded or sunni branded?[/B][/COLOR]

3.[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]Pakistani is basically Sunni state( majority is sunni). Zia did this practise but out shia brothers refused to pay zakat......according to their creed..
[/B][/COLOR]
4.. [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]Given the illiteracy and extremist tendencies plus religiousity of pakistanis ,is it prudent course to impose sharia???????? nope
[/B][/COLOR]
5.. [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]All developed nations of the west are secular...[/B][/COLOR]....

6..[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B] Where is IJtehad that is backbone of sharia???? [/B][/COLOR]

7..[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]True secular nation-state foundation was laid at treaty of Westphalia(1648)...before that pops carried high powers....catholics and protestants fought over minor points as is done by shias and sunnis now...
[/B]
[/COLOR]
8. [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]By being secular we will not lose Islam...but our non-Muslim Pakistan can better take part in national progress..( example: Abdul salaam noble prize winner)[/B][/COLOR]

9.. [COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]can our leaders do this??? can we accept that sharia??? [/B][/COLOR]


10..[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][B]Can we have leaders like Hazrat Abu-Baker saddique, Hazrat Umar, Hazrat Usman, Hazrat Ali????? think camly and tell me....aswer will be no.....if yes many muslim pakistanis will reject them on one ground or other....[/B][/COLOR].

[COLOR="SeaGreen"][B]Is Ummah united??? First hold fast the rope of Allah then can we understand Allah.....(basic qalima main bhi changes karchulay hain humare muslims.

Be realistic and not emotional ....see the ground realities......

Hence pakistan be secularised.....[/B][/COLOR]



[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Thanks..[/B][/COLOR]
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so u mean iran is not progressing??? KSA is not developed hn pakistan???? middle east is backword than pakistan:?