CSS Forums - "Tablighi Jaamat" What really they do ?

[QUOTE=Abdullah Nayyar;243936]

-Saudis are not financing the Jamaat because they are against it in their own country.

- Financing comes from individuals who take part in their activities and is to be spent on them under their watch.

-They have no political affiliation whatsoever and they don't even mention US,Pak or any other govt or its policies in their speeches. Millions of people gather for their ijtima so if they had any political affiliation it would have been conspicous.

-Links to the terrorist organizations is totally baseless. Talibans blame them for not taking up arms with them and rather concerning themselves with reforming Muslims in everyday lives.

-Attack on Ahmadis or Laal Masjid Incident are irrelevant to the discussion. If you are talking about religious sects in general then it is a whole new discussion.

-If US is financing them, then it should have been constrained just constrained to Pak while the Jamaat is quite active in the West as well.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah Mister, what a convenient time have you found for losing your appetite for debates, lol. And no, you’re wrong, I aint against all religious sects. Although I don’t push sectarianism, I myself do subscribe to one particular, moderate one. The reason why Im not discussing “that is wrong, this is right” is bcuz I don’t want to be partisan to such a dissension. However since I strongly believe in not only the futility but also the adverse effects of jamaat system- I will make my point.

Good, you mentioned you lived in the US. Now I can make sense of your special consideration for US perspective. On a serious level, you don’t really need to explain your whereabouts to anyone, why care?

Ok lets gravely look at your ‘facts’ one at a time, all right? \

Saudis aren’t against tableeghi activites- although some of their scholars dislike some practices being followed, like their general disapproval of mosques around graves, and the tableeghis being a tad bit more liberal than Wahhabis in terms of a bit more respect for our Holy Prophet (pbuh), or their basic acknowledgement of Saintly people that they were noble muslims to begin with (the Wahhabis barely care for even that). Also wahhabis focus more on a certain aqeedah than on Zikr, which is a sufi practice predominantly. Apart from that their tenets are the same. Anybody aware of Wahhabi Islam would know Shaikh Ibn Baz, a very influential Saudi scholar with the monarchy- he had specifically issued a fatwa in praise of the tableeghis for their work despite some minor disagreements. He was instrumental in pumping funds from Saudi Arabia to the sister movements in India, Pakistan and elsewhere. As for the financing bit, which you have so unwittingly refuted- the Saudi organization World Muslim League has been a major tool for financing tableeghi jamaats since the 1970’s not only in Asia but also in the West. It builds Islamic centers and mosques in European countries and North America- one reason why this form of Islam is the most prevalent form in the West-not the moderate kind. Scholars like Israr Ahmed, Tariq Jameel, are regularly INVITED by the Saudi authorities every now and then- a clue as to the level of association between them.

Apparently the tableeghis are required to bear their own expenses. But lets use up some of our common sense. Tableeghis belong to all income brackets, and not few are from the lowest ones. How do you expect a man to ‘spread’ Islam in a country where Islam is already present in 99% homes, when he can barely meet the expenses of his family? I know destitute people travelling to Raiwind who themselves swear that ‘the jamaat took very good care of them financially’. Even if we assume that a jamaati bears his own expenses, running the whole operation still requires crazy money.
So who spends all this money. Intelligence officials in Pakistan, India as well as in the west have studied their operations and have reported that jamaats tend to woo powerful, moneyed or respectable individuals-often unwittingly- who join their ranks and give handsome donations ( I had a personal experience of this when my own father who is a respected professional was constantly badgered into attending their ijtima, which he thankfully never gave into. The jamaat wants such individual to enhance its reputation). Saudi as I mentioned earlier also sponsors them.

The reason Saudis want Wahhabism and its sister concerns to spread all over is both religious and strategic. Strategically, Saudis are wary of Turkey and Iran both having an immense power in the region. Its natural competition. Iranians are Shiite. Turkey is very Sufistic.

Ok, Talibans do not condemn them at all. Why would they? Yeah perhaps you’re referring to the Pakistani Talibans aka American stooges, who disassociate themselves with tableeghis so that the game can continue. Other than that Talibans and Tableeghis share the same ideology. Nor are these tableeghis welcome abroad as you seem to have the delusion. Let me prove that to you.

Because French Intelligence agency has repeatedly demonstrated specially in the Grendel Report that French muslims once they join the ‘antechamber of fundamentalism’ go on a distinguished road to extremism leading to associations with jihadi groups. It has specifically recommended the government to crack-down on the jamaat, however this isn’t easy given the immense power it has gained. Kazakhstan and Morocco have recently kicked out some surreptitious religious organizations that used to operate within their boundries. FBI in USA is also wary of its activities citing its recruitment of individuals for terror-related operations. The on-going controversy regarding the construction of a mosque at ground-zero is not really about a mosque in the area. Its because the Imam and the sponsors of the mosque are all connected to the shady organizations working in USA, rather the radical Islam.

In Pakistan, Raiwind takes the cake for these recruitments. ISI, IB, FIA and CIA has actually submitted detailed reports contending the process of such recruitments. Initially, an ijitma in a local town lures individuals. When they are coaxed into attending the main ijtima at Raiwind, these people then travel there for a missionary training in ‘Islam’ for 4 months. Those attendees who have been particularly bright and specially the young ones are then approached by reps of jihadi units and given company to. Once convinced that jihad-fi-sabilallah is the way to go these days, they then transport them to militant camps (sponsored by USA/India I believe). Now this is where we get our abundant load of terrorists that blow up our cities.Where else do you systematically recruit terrorists? Neighborhood parks? Its not like they can approach an unknown boy to blow himself up after all.The important point is- they never use elderly, dignified people for blowing up themselves- they don’t even suggest it. They however do ask them for donations, which many happily give in the name of God. The Pakistani Jamaat has become much more radicalized overtime much to the contentment of the Saudis, and is a great cover for travel and operations of major jihadi orgs.

An organization particularly linked to tableeghi jamaat at Raiwind is Harket-ul-Mujahideen, a banned outfit that was pronounced to be responsible for the murder of the 11 French engineers in Karachi near Sheraton hotel- just a few days ago on tv channels. Harket-ul-Mujahideen openly admits its links with the tableeghi jamaat btw.

Its silly of anyone to think these people will openly spell out this ideology through mosque loudspeakers or even at the grand ijitma at Raiwind.

[QUOTE=most wanted;243972]dear respected sir! which point in her reply u regard a realistic one? does her this statement """Building connections from primary n secondary data is a much more hazardous task than first hand research which is vital but insufficient.""" plz u r requested to throw light on this statement that wht actually she meant..?:waiting

@ Abdullah Nayyar!

proud of u sir, v really need u like people in our beuracracy...[/QUOTE]

I hope Sociologist's reply answered ur apprehensions. And plz spend less time pleasing your seniors around you. Build your own, soild repertoire which will go a longer way.

[QUOTE=most wanted;244304]after accepting tableegh as one of the duties of every muslim, it won't b wrong to say that if any tableegi after his utmost effort is not able to do tableeg as it was done by 1,24,000 prophets (PBUT) and the companions of the holy Prohphet (PBUH), and commits hundred of mistakes while doing his duty, he will b forgiven by ALLAH ALMIGHTY coz he is trying to perform his duty, but what can b said abt those who instead of performing their duty, put such stuff on tableegis with which they have no concern.

after going through the thread i m not able to understand that y v Pakistanis hate our society so much, I read comments like these in any second reply to the thread "I DON'T LIKE THIS TRAIT OF PAKISTANI SOCIETY,,, THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM OF OUR SOCIETY" What is this, i don't say that v shud not criticise our society but our criticism shud not b just carping criticism. our criticism shud b constructive. why r v wasting our time in such baseless debate tht tableegis are paid by US or any other country. v shud observe and analyse the very motives behind their (tableegis) work, 4 example, if they are working 4 the betterment of our society then v shud thank US 4 her great job...

no offence to any of my brothers and sisters on the forum![/QUOTE]

We all love Pakistan, and God alone knows how much I love it. I dont like people criticizing it unduly either. But not all aspects of Pakistan are sweet. Those that arent, are not to be disposed off saying 'the west wants you to fight among yourself'. The form of Islam that we are discussing, is an innovation or specifically 'biddah' which literally means an adulteration in religion. Something that wasnt between us abundantly prior to 18th century is definitely an innovation. The Kharijis were the ideological ancestors of Wahhabis and its other offshoots. I hope u find more abt them before forming such an elevated opinion of them.

Nobody here needs to reply to this post if they dont want to, specially since some are exhausted by it ;) Nor have I meant this to be a source of mud-flinging at anyone, however I do wish to lighten up the discussion. I felt I have the right to speak up for what I have faith in.

regards to all