Dear Fellows,

Yesterday, we were discussing in the thread....Revolution is spreading to more countries !
that weather these revolutions are conspiracy or really a revolution....
i m using djuice as mobile network and today from djuice i got a message which is.... Itna sannata kio hai bhai..?kia khamoshee he hamara mustaqbil hai...?
and this remind me last night discussion of revolution or conspiracy...as we all know that Telenor is not local company...so may be that all seems conspiracy to me because as far as i know, those so called Revolutions of Tunisia and Egypt...initiated through Internet and Mobile services....

What do you think...........?

There is no such thing revolution exists, even our poor class is not united, we have been demoralized by the international communities conspiracies!

Now some of members will disagree by saying "There is no conspiracy, stop blaming US/Israel/India for destabilizing the Pakistan", where some one will favor the term Conspiracy.

Go and ask any sober official of intelligence (IB/MI/ISI), he may tell you the level of foreign intervention in Pakistan, even some SHO(Police) will tell you about this, that how many suspicious people they are arresting every year who doesn't belong to Pakistan, they got maps, contacts, bombs, plans, huge funds, blackmailing stuff etc.

Some ex-theorists believed that even our budgetary policies are pressurized by outside forces with different styles (blackmailing the officials, pressurizing by business community etc, unions, and media).

Its a long debate, which will be suitable for members after their CSS-2011 papers, good luck!

Regards,

__________________
'Never think that God's delays are God's denials. Hold on; hold fast; hold out. Patience is genius!

I second youR stand, that conspiracies have been taking their toll on this so called land of the pure, but at the same time revolution is the need of the hour as well. No revolution is benign or malignant in its nature rather its always the major outcomes of the revolution which decide its prior goodness or evil for the masses at large.
The main objective of almost every revolution is to overthrow the government. In case revolution really materializes, our present government, which is without a doubt a slave to foreign powers espeically America, will have to say good-bye, and that in return will not bade well for the foreign powers, as it will take them quite sometime to enslave the newly installed government in the country all over again.
If you agree with the above, then we have a lead which is: Will the revolution in pakistan be in the best interest of the United States or not?
If the answer is a clear Yes, then alright we are being the victim of an international conspiracy. If the answer is No, then perhaps we can capitalise on other regional reasons and internal causes for the revolution.
My conclusion is that pakistan is a victim of a series of conspiracies, but our own despicable condition too is adding the fuel to the cause of the coming revolution, or more appropriatly, the coming WAR.

__________________
It has been my wish; just don't want to pay thousands to the palm readers, already did. Save me a couple of thousands, and quench my curiosity. Want to talk about Tarrot and magic. Just a request!

i also have a feeling that they are conspiracies coz when ever a revolution came in a country in the past,it only effected that country and other countries around it not took much inspiration from it...but now all of a sudden all the countries are in turmoil and only Muslim countries....other non-Arab and non-Muslim counties also have autocratic rulers then why their ppl are still sleeping?Africa where the condition in much worse than Arabs,why don't they wake up??

i agree with witchdoctor that not only conspiracies but our own attitude and policies lead us to the edge of the cliff...

revolution has become inevitable but the question is revolution for what?our leaders and ppl just demand revolution but no one knows the agenda or philosophy upon which we should bring the revolution....if we are demanding revolution to change the faces only then there is no need coz it is already been done with the help of elections.

down with revolution without any philosophy.

__________________
Work until your idols become your rivals.

I too now have strong feeling that its a conspiracy...coz now again i got sms from djuice which is...hamare mulk main 60% abadee naujawanun ki hai...magr phr bhe ham khamoosh hain kio?....now the thing is how to overcome this...

@WitchDoctor...
We all can see that around us its America who have been trying to capture us by all possible means...they are been using Drauns, their secret intelligence people are roaming inside our ocuntry..they have their troops in Afghanist, they are in Iraq..from there Iran is the hurdle and they have been trying to capture them too...another side India is there who is by birth enemy of Pakistan....yes we are victim of International conspiracies and now they are working on it more seriously....but i disagree with the point that our overall attitude adding fuel to it...as i mentioned in another thread that WE not as one NATION..stopping way of Revolution....and this thing helping us in stopping the conspiracies to nurture in our Society.....

@shootingstar....
I agree with you as for what we look for revolution and than the same point of ONE NATION arises that we all have different needs...than definitely revolution for waht...?

__________________
Regards,
~ Riz ~

Riz, you are asking: REVOLUTION FOR WHAT?
To simply put it: When a jungle grows too wild, then natural fires become inevitable: to trim the jungle down, to cleanse the jungle of the excesses and complications. Pakistan has really become a jungle, or at least a jumble of complicated ideologies, sects, dogmas and misplaced resentments against the foreign cultural invasions.
To spill the beans, I'm really annoyed at the hypocrisy of our religious leaders, and their followers. They are playing with and exploiting people's emotions, they are using religion as a tool for controlling the country's politics.
For instance the cases of Afia Siddiqui, slain Governor Panjab, Raymond Davis and others have been misrepresented by the self-righteous religious forces, and majority of the people of pakistan being emotional fools since the inception of pakistan also don't think rationally for themselves, and easily give in to their unrealistic religious sentiments.
We don't need just a revolution, we need revolution with radical reforms, just like the one Ottoman Empire underwent, paving the way for the modern day Turkey. Honestly speaking, these fake, false, fallacious Mullahs should be slain, and their misteachings erased even from the collective psyche of the people of pakistan.
These religious leaders sent pakistani youth into Afghanistan back then to fight Soviet Union in the name of Jihad, but we all know that it wasn't jihad; it was an American trick to use the youth and land of pakistan to defeat Soviet Union in the cold-war, and it was just because we let them use us. Zia-ul-Haq's so called startegic depth policy is proving catastrophic for Pakistan now. These Talibans are our own blood, they are our own creation gone out of control. Talibans are the by-products of our foolish religious sentiments. And look at the religious groups, they still want us to believe that they are our last hope.
I admit that USA and other countries are planning against Pakistan, but they are planning that way because they know that if we become strong enough, we will be a foremost threat to their national securities. They are not wrong about it, we all know that the people of pakistan consider Israel as their enemy, out of no good reason. Israel is ready to be a good friend, to begin diplomatic relations with pakistan; israel even sent us huge Aid after the 2008 earthquake and the recent floods, but we didn't accept. The issue of palestine shouldn't be our business, the Arab world itself is friends with America, including Saudi Arabia, so then why should the people of pakistan be against Israel or America or Europe? Freeing Palestine isn't pakistan's responsibilty, we should be concerned about our own condition, we must first correct our belief-structures, provide education for all, strengthen our economy, eradicate corruption, materialize into one nation, disprove of religious groups and jihadist organizations, discourage extremism in all forms, and earn the reputation of a moderate, enlightened, progressive nation in the world.
Do you still think we should be an enemy to Israel? What good does come out of that when most of our children are running hungry, unsheltered, contracting countless diseases due to unclean water, and lack of balance diet, and dying in privation due to malnutrition? Does that help pakistan in any way?
USA is just pre-empting pakistan, not oppressing. If pakistan isn't controlled, with a free-hand its going to involve itself in dangerous prospects. Pakistan has already beeen playing with fire, its just time to get itself burned.
I mentioned Israel just as an example, because the view on israel best represents and reflects our beliefs and stands.
And whether the cry of revolution is the result of a conspiracy or our own dire need, pakistan needs cleansing; reformist revolution must be put into practice, things got to change, including our outdated belief-structures, enlightenment has to prevail, even inside our souls. There could be peace in pakistan only when each of pakistan's citizen will desire peace for all the countries, all the citizens of the world.

P.s: If you like this post, thank it so I can know that my views are right about the world. If however you dislike it, simply ignore it. Few thanks will prove me to be wrong, inciting me to reform my own beliefs, or leave for an enlightened, progressive, modern state that will reflect my inner beliefs. so be honest!

__________________
It has been my wish; just don't want to pay thousands to the palm readers, already did. Save me a couple of thousands, and quench my curiosity. Want to talk about Tarrot and magic. Just a request!

I second the witchdoctor, our society is rife with the religious bigotry; I won't call it fundamentalism but fanaticism. We need to purge our country out of this so called religiosity if we really interested in the development and progress in this 21st century. We need to mend our ways and consciously and judiciously carry out the reforms in all spheres of state function.

Initially we need to reshape our foreign policy beginning with revocation of 'enemy syndrome'. We share historically ancient civilization with India as a native of this land; sub-continent, south asia. Muslims have lived together with Hindus for centuries we have same culture and share almost identical cultural values yet India is our enemy. How hypocrite are we that we watch Indian movies and dramas and listen Indian songs and our females wear Indian Saris and like Indian mode of fashion, all our words and contradictory actions prove that we are double face. Actually it's nothing wrong about this behavior we are programmed like this; Precept and practice difference caused by hypocrite Mullah. This God cursed and plagued Mullah had misfed the historically proven falsehood in our innocent minds. Mullahs' hypocrisy is obvious in all sects, (I have successfully performed and validated this test on Mullahs of different sects) for verification purpose go to Mullah of any sect and ask him that is bribe forbidden in Islam? He would quote you much tritest tradition of Holy Prophet; Giver and Taker of bribe is belong to hell. Say him that some work of yours in government office cannot be done without greasing the palm of any official, he would abruptly permit you that under such circumstance bribe giving is legitimized. What the hell is this man? What hypocrisy? We are double faced and have double standards, in fact some pro-evils have formulated with type of crap in the ideals of our foreign policy. As for Israel I would say that Israel is the highest beneficiary of US Aid's chunk. Come on to the historically proven adage; enemy of your enemy is your friend, friend of your enemy is your enemy. Israel is our enemy but its friend is our friend...... How naive are we? We need to correct ourselves and come out of this wrong stereotypes of society. We should smash the mythological epic stories of Muslim Conquerors weaved around our mind and should face reality of modern world instead. Ills of our society diagnosed and Panacea offered by Witchdoctor is 100% accurate. Nail the religious bigotry up!!!!!............... As Jesus Christ said, "First cast the mot out of your own eyes than casting the beam out of mine".

Witchdoctor, I truly second your opinions, you've said many things of my mind, but when it comes to leaving our Muslim block, it seems odd, I know we are not that developed yet for building a strong back we need to intervene in other Muslims countries issues, like ZAB did and Mushraf joined the anti-Muslim campaign, now we are suffering its consequences.


Shootingstar, Its good that we need a revolution but for what? It is mainly for the countries where there is no idea of democracy, we are having almost fair elections (60%) every time.

Fair elections is not the solution, education for all is the only solution, our masses(mostly poor) don't know the value of their vote, they need to learn the basics of "civic sense" which unfortunately we don't have.

Its good to share our ideas, our points here but why we are so helpless to do anything? I'd like to listen comments from you guys on this.


FaizaSoomro: Just write your points/arguments here, it would be considered as your participation in this discussion.

Regards,

__________________
'Never think that God's delays are God's denials. Hold on; hold fast; hold out. Patience is genius!

actually the most important thing is that we all are corrupt if any one of us is trying to do something good or against the tradition he will have to face the consequences and most important thing to whom a person should go if he is taking some action...if u do something good first of all u have to face the opposition of ur frnds, colleges and above all ur family members...another important issue is that we have lost our trust from Allah...we somewhere back in the mind have perception that this World is only thing which we need to make Perfect...and we are afraid of the people who are like us...but the only difference is that he has some power in this world...which v dont have...actually that all was what i felt and afraid of taking some action against anything which is going wrong around me...the smallest example i wrote letter about my chairman to vice chancellor of my uni...my frnds and my family members opposed me on this that i shouldnt do this as it will effect my GPA and may stay in UNI.....here are the issues due to which we are so helpless and think 100 times before taking action against anything...in todays Pakistani society a person who is doing something GOOD have to face lot of opposition rather than the person who did something wrong...khr we if cant do anything than can just wait for someone who is not like us...MAY ALLAH GIVES US KNOWLEDGE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG....

__________________
Regards,
~ Riz ~

because of lack of education
and as i have observed if some one is educated that person is also opresed.some one has education problem some one has financial problem ....


if there is some thing ,that is only source....
if masses vote every time they hope that now they will do some thing good for us and they have no any other way to vote them.....

__________________
never rely on any one no matter how close you are to the person!!!!!!!!