The way out.....
 

Pakistan is undergoing the most critical period of its history, confronting existential threats. Extremism and militancy have plagued the society , anti federation sentiments are increasing amongst small provinces , especially in Baluchistan and its slipping away from the centre.Internationally we known as a nation who has germinated and exported terrorism accross the globe.Our military is labeled as rouge army.Our neighbors Afhganistan, Iran, and india are not happy with us. And if one can see beyond rhetorics and emotions, china is not going to support us as we expect.

Whats is the way to face these challenges and start a journey as a respectable and sovereign nation? In my opinion some of the following steps can extirpate us out of the quagmire.

1-The Govt at Centre must be reconstituted giving representation to all political forces in proportion to their strength in Parliament.

2- Our policy on war against terrorism must be presented in parliament for extensive debate.After approval from the parliament , the terms should be revisited.
3-In light of parliamentary approval, Pakistan should convey the international community , about its concerns regarding sovereignty.

4-Current military leadership must be replaced and indicted for its transgressions and failures.

5-ISI must be subjected to civilian control.

6-After parliamentary approval , all the disputes with India must be settled.

7-We should enter into NO-War agreement with India.

8-International community must be assured that this country will be run by elected representatives and military leadership will work under it.

9-A war on terror council must be established by parliament , with the members from Parliament, Judges and former military personnels. This committie should be authorised to oversee all the matters regrding the war , approve budgets , direct operations and measure performance of military command.International community must be realised that a high powered civilian body is overseening the war activities with due authiriity and responsibility.All aid in respect of war must be given in its control.Besides, defence budget should be cut short and a separate head in the name of war on terror may be created.All international aid must be channeled through this.

The baseline is that our civilian leadership must be authorizes to take strategic decision in respect of security, foreign policy and other important issues of national concern instead of taking dictation from GHQ.Once we make realise the world, our say would have moral back.

@ Saleeqa

Your post greatly depicts your sincere concerns about the country, especially the thought of bringing the military under people's (parliament's) control:clap:clap:clap however tell you sis, this is never going to turn into real for the present day geographical Pakistan as our military is sadly far more powerful than the parliament, which would never accept the very idea of being steered by the elective people for they think they're the only perfect breed of the country. Anyways it still is worth appreciating to have priceless brains like you.

very well said dear but you know our present elite politicians are not sincere with their nation. They are using parliament as a rubber stamp to fulfill their personal interests. Even parliamentarians do not think for a moment for the work they were chosen for. They always look for ministries. This is the way business of our country is being run. The way out is to get rid of this bloody leadership. We need sincere and new leaders to run our country..

I am of the same mind as long as the state of country you have narrated in this piece of writing. But, frankly speaking, some of your recommendations may be termed as day dreaming.

1. Placing ISI under civilian Government.

No Government is competent enough to carry out this almost unattainable task because they seriously lack political and constitutional skills. Current Government tried and even issued a notification, but had to countermand it the same evening. It appears as they tried to fence in a monkey in bird’s cage. Today, our nation is not only plagued by what you stated, but also by the corruption, nepotism, inefficient leadership, exploitation of national exchequer by avaricious echelons and lack of will to find a course of action against all odds. Placing ISI under civilian government would mean a colossal loss to this institution as well.

2. Revisiting terms to wrestle war against terrorism

So far as an extensive debate over counter-strategy for war against terrorism is concerned, it must be carried out in parliament with all driving forces in picture, but there remains a slightest chance of coming to an agreeable course of policy because our government is significantly dictated by the US. Today’s visit of Hillary Clinton is epiphany of another dictation.

3. Concerns regarding sovereignty

I would not make any comments on this point, but would direct you to May 2, operation Geronimo and then to (ironically) swift response of our government machinery Is this how a nation protects its sovereignty?

Leaving all other variance of opinion on other recommendations, I would come to differ at your baseline. How far is our civilian government competent to take strategic and security decisions? Do they have decision power? Could you please name some of the effective and practicable policies formulated by parliament or concerned ministries to eradicate socio-economic evils even?

Regards

Good suggestions by poster atleast theoratically.
For example referring to point 4 above regarding replacement of Military top brass for its failures and transgression of its mandate, i would say in a country like Pakistan it is quite impossible. Nawaz Shareef had tried this option after the fiasco of Kargill and everybody knows the result. :wub:
Unless our civil institutions and their leaderships are strong enough, we can only day-dream in this regard.

Saleeqa you have pointed out rightly, what problems as a nation we are facing at the moment. Suggestions too are very good if acted upon but the problem we are facing is that who is going to act upon and implement these? The answer of this is a big NO ONE for the time being. Our politicians on whom you are banking upon are not sincere enough to do this much at all. We as a nation are facing a deficiency of sincere people everywhere and I do not see anyone in the near future who will end our difficulties. Until and unless we do not develop a good system of check and balance on our institutions we can't expect any good thing.

Regards,

[QUOTE=Saleeqa Batool;310428]

Whats is the way to face these challenges and start a journey as a respectable and sovereign nation? In my opinion some of the following steps can extirpate us out of the quagmire.

1-The Govt at Centre must be reconstituted giving representation to all political forces in proportion to their strength in Parliament.

2- Our policy on war against terrorism must be presented in parliament for extensive debate.After approval from the parliament , the terms should be revisited.
3-In light of parliamentary approval, Pakistan should convey the international community , about its concerns regarding sovereignty.

4-Current military leadership must be replaced and indicted for its transgressions and failures.

5-ISI must be subjected to civilian control.

6-After parliamentary approval , all the disputes with India must be settled.

7-We should enter into NO-War agreement with India.

8-International community must be assured that this country will be run by elected representatives and military leadership will work under it.

9-A war on terror council must be established by parliament , with the members from Parliament, Judges and former military personnels. This committie should be authorised to oversee all the matters regrding the war , approve budgets , direct operations and measure performance of military command.International community must be realised that a high powered civilian body is overseening the war activities with due authiriity and responsibility.All aid in respect of war must be given in its control.Besides, defence budget should be cut short and a separate head in the name of war on terror may be created.All international aid must be channeled through this.
[/QUOTE]

Although you want the best for this country, but the above plan has severe shortcomings. Please understand the difference between "want" and "is". You may want everything to work smoothly as delineated above, but it is impossible to materialize given the present situation.
The above plan for the most part, takes political will for granted. The Parliament had the opportunity to revise the War on Terror policy after May 2. It did not do so. You want extensive debate from them, but you have to meet these ‘representatives’ in order to understand their caliber- which stops short at choosing the right race horses or cockerel fights. None of the above is an exaggeration. There are very few reps in the Parliament whom can be trusted with at least a good debate if not the will to implement it. I can count them on one hand, literally. Secondly, everything from Wikileaks to the Sun itself are barking out the partisanship of these reps to US policy in Pakistan. They are bought out in numerous favors, and dare not challenge the Americans. So what are you expecting out of the Parliament? The military, in the aftermath of Mehran Base attack is conducting raids, arrests, a lot of intel gathering, refortifying military bases, and more. They are a better option any day.
Then about conveying to the world community about our sovereignty, my question is, what about it? United nations do that. They cover up their mess to put up a united front to the world. Here, in the name of freedom of speech, every Jack and Jill is busy in an unholy and ill-informed criticism of our own institutions. All because they saw Asma Jehangir do it. When a couple fights inside their house, sooner or later they can patch their differences up. But when they take dirty laundry all the way to the city square, they can kiss goodbye to any hope because 10 people will be ready to play the devil and break them apart.
I agree with the part where you said current military leadership, working anti to Pakistan should be eliminated. In my view there are some 6-8 top generals who are responsible. The problem is, in the absence of civilian discipline, this wont be done. However there may be a way out if the lower ranks of the military, along with honest generals take to this task. And again, that wont be too constitutional.
ISI should not be given to a civilian control that has its own vested interests and will readily buy and sell the little of integrity that is remaining. The Americans will only have to offer the Interior Minister, PM, President, interior Secretaries property and major shares in corporations abroad to buy their loyalty off. Trust me, it doesn’t take much for them. Once its put under Interior ministry, then its international policy becomes redundant or minimal automatically. ISI under a civilian control is exactly what the Americans want, to defang us and is resonated through media. The soldiers working for the institution are like Lt. Yasir Abbas. Willing to die for the cause. Which Parliamentarian has ever done that? I only remember ZA Bhutto doing that. But then its not everyday they produce people like him.
How will you solve disputes with India? They want nothing short of whole Kashmir. They are busy sabotaging your interests by building dams and aligning with the Afghan govt and US. They are behind attacks like the Mehran base one. The terrorists destroyed only Orions used for reconnaissance at territorial waters- out of many other choppers, aircrafts and equipment that they crossed untouched. The only threat we have from our waters is India. So the attack’s direct beneficiary is ONLY India. In my vew, diplomacy has failed here. You know whats inevitable next. How can we enter into a No-war pact with India? Pakistan has been willing to sign the NPT if India signs as well. India refuses to. It doesn’t care whether we sign it or not. Even if both countries ever agree to a No-war pact, the terms will be conjured to bring about an easy breach on an excuse.
Lastly, you want direct control of war budget to the Parliament. The same parliament that eats out of Constituency grants allotted to them which are in no way comparable to a huge war budget?

[QUOTE=Saleeqa Batool;310428]1-The Govt at Centre must be reconstituted giving representation to all political forces in proportion to their strength in Parliament.[/QUOTE]
Is this a call for another martial law or you are pleading for midterm election. I mean what would be the procedure to reconstitute federal government?

And as far as "giving representation to all political forces in proportion to their strength in Parliament" is concerned; in such a situation, 50% assembly members will have to be appointed as ministers otherwise national policy tou aik taraf, aisi Parliament budget paas kar day tou bari baat ho gi. Dua karain next election main koi party two third majority lay lay nahi tou yeah politician wazarto pay hi lartay rahain gay.

In my view, the biggest problems that Pakistan is facing today will not be solved by subjecting ISI or army to civilian control. One need not have Newton's brilliance to find out the weak link among army, judiciary, beaurocracy, and politicians. Anyways, the essence of your post is a deep concern for your country that shows that you are a real patriot.

[QUOTE=Saleeqa Batool;310428]Pakistan is undergoing the most critical period of its history, confronting existential threats. Extremism and militancy have plagued the society , anti federation sentiments are increasing amongst small provinces , especially in Baluchistan and its slipping away from the centre.Internationally we known as a nation who has germinated and exported terrorism accross the globe.Our military is labeled as rouge army.Our neighbors Afhganistan, Iran, and india are not happy with us. And if one can see beyond rhetorics and emotions, china is not going to support us as we expect.

Whats is the way to face these challenges and start a journey as a respectable and sovereign nation? In my opinion some of the following steps can extirpate us out of the quagmire.

1-The Govt at Centre must be reconstituted giving representation to all political forces in proportion to their strength in Parliament.

2- Our policy on war against terrorism must be presented in parliament for extensive debate.After approval from the parliament , the terms should be revisited.
3-In light of parliamentary approval, Pakistan should convey the international community , about its concerns regarding sovereignty.

4-Current military leadership must be replaced and indicted for its transgressions and failures.

5-ISI must be subjected to civilian control.

6-After parliamentary approval , all the disputes with India must be settled.

7-We should enter into NO-War agreement with India.

8-International community must be assured that this country will be run by elected representatives and military leadership will work under it.

9-A war on terror council must be established by parliament , with the members from Parliament, Judges and former military personnels. This committie should be authorised to oversee all the matters regrding the war , approve budgets , direct operations and measure performance of military command.International community must be realised that a high powered civilian body is overseening the war activities with due authiriity and responsibility.All aid in respect of war must be given in its control.Besides, defence budget should be cut short and a separate head in the name of war on terror may be created.All international aid must be channeled through this.

The baseline is that our civilian leadership must be authorizes to take strategic decision in respect of security, foreign policy and other important issues of national concern instead of taking dictation from GHQ.Once we make realise the world, our say would have moral back.[/QUOTE]


Your thoughts are sincere but ...

1:In Pakistan ,giving representation to all parties means giving them the portfolio of the ministries with they are demanding..And they can never think beyond this Point..Politicians can even agree to the term that "Give us the portfolios we demanded and we will promise not to say a word in parliament"

Ans 2:Our war on Terror policy must be represented in the parliament for debate but if We have JUI-F in parliament then there is no way that they will allow any harsh measures against Taliban and Other terrorist factions.

3: Right

4:And who is going to indict our notorious military leadership???This is not India where a 3-star general can be indicted for corruption..here you can't even punish a SOBIDAR or a driver or ISI..

5:Current Govt tried it once..If any govt ever tried to excise this option then ISI will support the opposition and the govt. will be toplped..i am sure our opposition parties won't hesitate to say"G Sir"..Rallies in support of ISI and Army these days can explain what i am trying to say..

6:True..But if all disputes with India is solved..Then what will be our Army's role..how they will manage their share of the budget??

7:True..

8:True.Representatives elected by Common man..not U.S and ISI..

9:True

Dear Saleeqa I respect your views and you have stated almost the real facts but I want to say some thing on your suggestion no.5 that ISI should be in civillian control. I think that ISI is a pure military organization and its control can not be given to civilian administration. There are different civilian intelligence or investigation agencies like IB, FIA, CIA, CID, Police(Special Branch). ISI is Pakistan's premium intelligence organization which comprise of military personnel as well as civilian personnel too. Our civilian administration should tell the nation that what is the performance of civilian administrated intelligence or investigation agencies and the results would be unsatisfied.

[QUOTE=mujipak;312447]I think that ISI is a pure military organization and its control can not be given to civilian administration.[/QUOTE]

Wrong dear, ISI aint no pure military organization, it is an independent organization which both civilian and armed forces' personnel can join but it is largely controlled and dominated by the military. Pure military intelligence organization is Military Intelligence (usually called MI) :dd.

ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) is an army organization. They only hire civilian for their intelligence (surveillance) operations. MI only look after the intelligence operations within the armed forces. ISI is made for all intelligence requirements and it is a pure army administrated organization.

[QUOTE=mujipak;312459]ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) is an army organization. They only hire civilian for their intelligence (surveillance) operations. MI only look after the intelligence operations within the armed forces. ISI is made for all intelligence requirements and it is a pure army administrated organization.[/QUOTE]

Still, presence of civilian officers among its ranks shows that it is not a 100% pure military organization :huh. ISI is organized into 7 (or 8) divisions, and not all of them are pure military ones. Anyways you are rite to the extent that it is mostly populated by military personnel of some specialized units and they run the show for ISI :evil, but originally it was not meant to be a pure military organization, rather an overall intelligence apparatus like the CIA.

ISI is not a military organization..it is a military organization such as the Utility stores,marriage halls etc..the have army personnel in their ranks. most of them ..but this is not compulsory..ISI was just hacked my military..

[QUOTE=khanbaba512;312481]ISI is not a military organization..it is a military organization such as the Utility stores,marriage halls etc..the have army personnel in their ranks. most of them ..but this is not compulsory..ISI was just hacked my military..[/QUOTE]

An efficient intel org that is ideologically motivated needs a lot of discipline. This is maximum when the people running it are also disciplined. This is why Mossad, with the highest rate of success is a military affiliated organization- not civilian.

[QUOTE=mhmmdkashif;312474]Still, presence of civilian officers among its ranks shows that it is not a 100% pure military organization :huh. ISI is organized into 7 (or 8) divisions, and not all of them are pure military ones. Anyways you are rite to the extent that it is mostly populated by military personnel of some specialized units and they run the show for ISI :evil, but originally it was not meant to be a pure military organization, rather an overall intelligence apparatus like the CIA.[/QUOTE]

Kashif yar....Army and Intelligence:ddDo u think therez any affinity in these two terms:ppdoesnt it seem a paradox to u:laughing

[QUOTE=aphrodite;312503]An efficient intel org that is ideologically motivated needs a lot of discipline. This is maximum when the people running it are also disciplined. This is why Mossad, with the highest rate of success is a military affiliated organization- not civilian.[/QUOTE]

Dear are you aware of the conscription laws in Israel, means every male citizen of age 18 years must serve a term in regular military service. Un ko zaroorat kiya hai civilians kee :dd. Lahore se bhi aadhi aabadi waala to mulk hai :dd.

[QUOTE=mhmmdkashif;312515]Dear are you aware of the conscription laws in Israel, means every male citizen of age 18 years must serve a term in regular military service. Un ko zaroorat kiya hai civilians kee :dd. Lahore se bhi aadhi aabadi waala to mulk hai :dd.[/QUOTE]

Yes am aware. But Mossad, for the most part takes active military personnel to run it in addition to the fact that its put under Ministry of Defense or its equivalent. Here, the main panga is to place ISI under Ministry of Interior and not defense. And given their 'democratic' structure, it should have been the first country to place huge civilians in it.

[QUOTE=aphrodite;312517]Yes am aware. But Mossad, for the most part takes active military personnel to run it in addition to the fact that its put under Ministry of Defense or its equivalent. Here, the main panga is to place ISI under Ministry of Interior and not defense. And given their 'democratic' structure, it should have been the first country to place huge civilians in it.[/QUOTE]

We have a Defence ministry??:unsure:
Ajkal kon ha aur ha kdhr??

Where is our Ministry of defence?It's not only ISI,it's the psyche of military elite that they consider themselves superior.Ministry of defence is there just to do "Yes" to army.

Where is the Defence Minister? I never heard any statement about OBL issue and now on PNS Mehran, he is continuously silent.

Did you hear any thing concrete from ministry of defence in the last 40 years?

[QUOTE=khanbaba512;312524]We have a Defence ministry??:unsure:
Ajkal kon ha aur ha kdhr??[/QUOTE]
Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar is our Defence Minister. He won the general election from Gujrat beating Chaudhary Shujaat Hussain in 2008 general elections. There are some un-confirmed reports that he has some issues with the upper leadership on PML(Q) and PPP coalition.

Actually mjhe pta tha but yakeen nahi aarha tha k humari defence ministry ha..meine socha dissolve hogyi :dd

Actually I had also forgot we had a ministry of defence and an organization called ISI works under it :0, mujipak this answers your previous queries regarding ISI a pure military organization

And i want to correct something..Ahmed Mukhtar was the defence minister of Switzerland...Because in such a peaceful country there is no need for an active defence ministry..

AND I forgot that there was something named as 'Defence' in Pakistan:pp

[QUOTE=mhmmdkashif;312542]Actually I had also forgot we had a ministry of defence and an organization called ISI works under it :0[/QUOTE]

yes..:sad: both of them are not in working condition these days.

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;312545]AND I forgot that there was something named as 'Defence' in Pakistan:pp[/QUOTE]


Hum sb ko "Badaam" aur humaray institutions ko Ghairat ki zururat ha

Army defence ministry kay under hoti to us ka bhi haal railway jaisa hota. Shukar karain koi aik institute hay is mulk main politician say bacha hoa. Yeah log Haj aisi muqadas ibadat ko nahi chortay. Army in say tou ziada hi gairatmand hay.

[QUOTE=JazibRoomi;312560]Army defence ministry kay under hoti to us ka bhi haal railway jaisa hota. Shukar karain koi aik institute hay is mulk main politician say bacha hoa. Yeah log Haj aisi muqadas ibadat ko nahi chortay. Army in say tou ziada hi gairatmand hay.[/QUOTE]

Sir, qanoonan Army, Navy aur Air Force defence ministry ke under hee hoti hain :pp..

[QUOTE=mhmmdkashif;312561]Sir, qanoonan Army, Navy aur Air Force defence ministry ke under hee hoti hain :pp..[/QUOTE]

ji bilkul qanoon sab kay liye hota hay...chahay army ho ya president zardari hoon.

[QUOTE=mhmmdkashif;312542]Actually I had also forgot we had a ministry of defence and an organization called ISI works under it :0, mujipak this answers your previous queries regarding ISI a pure military organization[/QUOTE]

Sir jee ab tu ISI ka pecha chorein, log he kafi hain jo target killing main bhe ISI ka hath samajhty hain... :con what do you think?

[QUOTE=JazibRoomi;312560]Army defence ministry kay under hoti to us ka bhi haal railway jaisa hota. Shukar karain koi aik institute hay is mulk main politician say bacha hoa. Yeah log Haj aisi muqadas ibadat ko nahi chortay. Army in say tou ziada hi gairatmand hay.[/QUOTE]

Tu ap ka kehne ka matlab ha k Army politics se b bahr ha???ap ne ek aur thread mein b Army k saray awards ginwae the but woh thread hi cose hogyi jis mein ap ne kaha tha k Musharraf tu kala bagh dam bana deta..:closedeye

[QUOTE=khanbaba512;312577]Tu ap ka kehne ka matlab ha k Army politics se b bahr ha???ap ne ek aur thread mein b Army k saray awards ginwae the but woh thread hi cose hogyi jis mein ap ne kaha tha k Musharraf tu kala bagh dam bana deta..:closedeye[/QUOTE]
Ji is waqat to army politics main nahe hay. General kayani nay aik directive bhi issue kya tha kay army officers politician say na milain 2008 main. Bahar tor Musharaf govt ajj ki govt say bhut behtar thi. And i think ajj Pakistan kay jitnay major problems hain unki main responsibility politician per hay na kay army per.

g ...directive tu issue kr dya ha but PASHA aur imran khan ki meeting aur kiyani aur shahbaz sharif ki meeting ko ISTASNA hasil ha ...Musharraf ki bubble economy kahan se behtar hogyi g..War on Terror mein agr woh itni khulli chutti na deta tu aj itne buray halaat b na hotay..ap kah rhe the k woh kalabagh dam bana jata..chalien woh DAM agr politics ki nazr hogya tu baqi jo us ne dam bana dye hain un se hum ne konsi dosray mulkou ko bijli bechni shru kr di ha ??? Army agr Cantt area mein Haqqani network ko rakhay hue ha aur Osama ko apnay Hamsae mein ghar dya hua ha tu Zuroor is k peche kuch achi hi strategy hogi jo k hum civilians k pallay nahi parhti ..
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Musharraf Zindabad g...us ne tu LAL MASJID mein America k embassy operation se b zbrdst operation kiya ha ..un se hostage bachay nahi the..is ne chemical mar k ksi ko bachnay ka mauqa hi nahi diya..Siachin mein b us k karnamay Qabil e Zikr hain..Us k sb se competent PM Shaukat Aziz ki tu baat hi na kren..Agr woh 2,3 saal rah jaata tu i m sure OUT OF THE BOX SOLUTION FOR KASHMIR ISSUE ka b humien pta lag jata k woh kya Drama tha

[QUOTE=Malmeen Khan;312568]Sir jee ab tu ISI ka pecha chorein, log he kafi hain jo target killing main bhe ISI ka hath samajhty hain... :con what do you think?[/QUOTE]

lolz, aur RAW kaa haath bhi dhoondte hain :49:, mujhe aik dost ne, jo ke intelligence idaare main officer hai, aik baar kaha ke yaar log kehte hain ke her kaam agency karati hai, abhi dekho main tumhare saath betha hoon, mere pass to pistol bhi nahin hai apne aap ko bachane ke liye, kiyoon hamare liye aise baat karte ho :dd, mujhe us time bara rehem aaya bechare pe :dd..

[QUOTE=mhmmdkashif;312607]lolz, aur RAW kaa haath bhi dhoondte hain :49:, mujhe aik dost ne, jo ke intelligence idaare main officer hai, aik baar kaha ke yaar log kehte hain ke her kaam agency karati hai, abhi dekho main tumhare saath betha hoon, mere pass to pistol bhi nahin hai apne aap ko bachane ke liye, kiyoon hamare liye aise baat karte ho :dd, mujhe us time bara rehem aaya bechare pe :dd..[/QUOTE]

Us k pas pistol nahi ha tu kya hua..baad mein uthwa le ga..aur kal ap k ghar walay b missing person waloun k sath hunger strike pe bethe hn gy :huh:

[QUOTE=khanbaba512;312609]Us k pas pistol nahi ha tu kya hua..baad mein uthwa le ga..aur kal ap k ghar walay b missing person waloun k sath hunger strike pe bethe hn gy :huh:[/QUOTE]


Allah Allah karo yaar, kiyoon mujhe uthwane kaa program hai :huh, mera kisi tanzeem ke saath koi taaluq nahin hai bhai :huh

[QUOTE=khanbaba512;312597]Musharraf Zindabad g...us ne tu LAL MASJID mein America k embassy operation se b zbrdst operation kiya ha ..un se hostage bachay nahi the..is ne chemical mar k ksi ko bachnay ka mauqa hi nahi diya..[/QUOTE]
Ji wo jo log danday utha kar kisi ko bhi kidnap kar laitay thay, jo markets main agg lagatay thay,jo lal masjid kay bahir morcha lagaye AK47 uthaye live tv pay dikhaye ja rahay thay wo konsay bachay thay? Agar kisi ko bahir nikalnay ka mooqa nahi diya gya tou app kay Gazi Abdul Aziz burqa pahnay larkio ki aik lambi qatar main say kaisay baramad ho gaye? Recently Sama TV kay aik Show main Musharaf nay kaha hay kay loog kahtay hain itni bachion ko zinda jala diya un kay parents kahan hain? Kisi aik ko samnay lay aain. Sirf aik khatoon ki death hoi thi or wo Abdul Rashid ki mother thi. Army ko terrorists ko panah dainay ki kya zarorat hay. In "BACHO" ko panah dainay kay liye hum awam hi kafi hain.

Jahan tak baat rahi economy ki tou app macroeconomic indicators pay chahay believe na karain, app awam say pooch lain konsa time bahter tha. Musharaf ki bubul economy meray nazdeek zardari ki shaheen economy say behtar hay kay tab gareeb kay liye zindagi guzarna qadray aasaan tha.

Or jo app nay baat ki army or politician ki meetings ki, tou app please wikileaks ki wo cable zaroor parhain jo Long March 2009 kay baray main hay.

[QUOTE=mhmmdkashif;312611]Allah Allah karo yaar, kiyoon mujhe uthwane kaa program hai :huh, mera kisi tanzeem ke saath koi taaluq nahin hai bhai :huh[/QUOTE]

hahaha.:8:.yeh cheez...isi waja se tu sari umer hum army aur agency k neechay se nahi nikal saktay..kyun k humien pta ha agr in k khilaaf baat ki tu yeh uthwa lain gy :huh