[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;350538]AoA,

iii). If for 4 long years somebody raised slogans of Parha Likha Punjab, thn why we are forgetting that what were the Education Ministers of other provinces were doing at that time, why they didnt follow the suit raisinig the same slogan, Parha LIkha Sindh or Parha Likha Balochistan!!.. Are'nt they responsible? I doubt that Punjab got some special funds from Federal Government to move on with the Parha Likha Punjab. [/quote]

I quoted the example in response to a member's post that said Punjab has never raised slogan under it's own name whereas other provinces more often play provincialism. Provincialism or to be more specific, [B]regionalism[/B]is the norm of the day. You, I or anyone cannot deny it. We are taught to heed the call of the day and not to run away from it. Like there are national interests on the international stage, there are regional interests of the dwellers of a particular region as well. To give you a hint - the cases of Siraiki & Hazara people may suffice. And btw, being big brother, Punjab already gets lion's share of the state money to satiate its needs!

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;350538]
iv). Perhaps you have not read the rationale of quota system, as per Article 27 Clause I of the Constitution of Pakistan 1973, worked out/approved by the worthy Z.A Bhutto, the quota system was not be exceeded by twenty years. Study of this Article of Constitution, worthy Z.A. Bhutto himself was not in favour of long standing of quota system perhaps!.. [/quote]

When I showed lack of confidence in the govt.s' capability to deliver in my last post, I had this information in my mind that it has not succeeded in last 3 decades to bring a uniform educational system across the country therefore I turned down the recommendation put forward by Hamza in which he stated that a 10-year time may be given to respective provinces for uplifting educational standards. Regardless of the incursion in the Constitution, it's implementation can only be fruitful when the statement has materialized into a reality.

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;350538]
[B]3).[/B] The quota system is having its roots in pre-partition time and all successive governments of Pakistan upheld the system. The Constitution of Pakistan 1973, as per its Article 27 Clause I (as also referred in para 2 (C-iv)/above), about safeguarding the fundamental rights of the citizens of Pakistan against the discrimination in the federal & provisional government services in these words, has stated,
“No citizen otherwise qualified for appointment in the service of Pakistan shall be discriminated against in respect of any such appointment on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth.”

“Provided that, for a period not exceeding twenty years from the commencing day, posts may be reserved for persons belonging to any class or area to secure their adequate representation in the service of Pakistan.”

This twenty years period was to end in 1993, however, in 1999 the PML-N led government (its pertinent to mention here that the PML N was a Punjab dominated party), passed Sixteenth Amendment Bill and enforced whereby provision of twenty years was extended to twenty further years and now the text of the specific clause in Constitution of Pakistan contain the period of forty years instead of twenty. [B][COLOR="blue"]One should not condemn that Punjab is doing wrong or going to do away with the quota system[/COLOR][/B]. [/quote]

Pardon me for the simplicity but I do count the people of Punjab as representatives of their province. Idea of abolition of quota system is put forward by a resident of Punjab and is duly supported by his peers from the same region. I recognize this as voice of Punjab, though you may differ.

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;350538]
It is incumbent upon the Government (whosoever is in lead i.e. PPPP, PML N, PML Q etc) to make steps for socio-economic uplift of every area of the country so that level playing field can be given to every person. Nevertheless, in current circumstances and even in foreseeable future, it will never by a prudent step to do away with the quota system, though reforms are direly needed.

To start with, the 10% quota of Armed Forces should be removed and this be included in the open merit quota so that meritorious students should not be left behind. Subsequently, reforms are required to be made so that deserving people should not be barred from entry into service , which is also necessitating by the Constitution of Pakistan.[/QUOTE]

There's no second thought over Armed Forces quota - it should be plainly nullified. There should be no backdoor for entering into the bureaucracy!

Reforms may be welcomed if they do not further marginalize the alienated people of some provinces. Reforms should be reforms and NOT mere amendments that serve the interests of some at the cost of many.

[QUOTE=Hasan Raza Awan;350724]mr red max No doubt Z. A bhutto was a wonder ful leader ..read my post completly. us main Z a Bhutto ka nam as a PM from sindh lia hai use ghlat nai kha main ne....Benazir ne kia kra n mR zaradri ne sindh k liye what they are doing..my appraoch ma y bt rational for some people but not rfor all..jo thk baat hia wo main ne kerd ri.
Prha Likha Punjab k time b i was its critist my dear brother but u have dcided k agle bnde ko ghl;at e khna haui to main kuch nai ker sakta.

or rhi baat bat dual standrds ki to main ne TANZ kia tha adopt nai kia kisi bhi cheez ko main is system ka nai is nation ka bht bra critics main se ik hon..main ne apni life k bht saal is QOM k liye is liye berbaad kiye k ye PAKISTANI hain but u kne mjhe aage se kia sunne ko milta rha BTMIZ, SIRPHIRE ye bdlaon ge is sstem ko..to mere bhai main is sytem ko na bdal ska na bdal skon ga n aap main se koi bhi..
ager koi bdle ga to best of luk to him/her.[/QUOTE]

Janab e aali,
Ager Pakistan ki itni hee khidmat ki hai jitni ka aap daa'wa karte ho, tu yeh aik khidmate aur bhe kar lo aur Pakistan mein Sindh, Balochistan, KPK aur FATA k logon bhe shaamil kar lo. Zyaada nahin, sirf thora buhut hee, unk haquuq ki baat bhe kar lo...isey aap ki shaan mein mazeeed izafa hoga.


[B]Regards[/B],

redmax
 

[B]Janab e aali,
Ager Pakistan ki itni hee khidmat ki hai jitni ka aap daa'wa karte ho, tu yeh aik khidmate aur bhe kar lo aur Pakistan mein Sindh, Balochistan, KPK aur FATA k logon bhe shaamil kar lo. Zyaada nahin, sirf thora buhut hee, unk haquuq ki baat bhe kar lo...isey aap ki shaan mein mazeeed izafa hoga.[/B]

janab ye log shamil hain kbhi inko khd se alag nai smjha cz ye hain to Pakistan hai but main sirf itna khta hon jo jiska roght hai wo do use n right chenne ki try mt kro.

[QUOTE]Education standards are equally poor in Punjab. Perhaps you people have never seen the educational standards in Punjab. I do not think south Punjab is all that good. Merit must be ensured. We are talking about Federal services and we are a federation. So there is no need to talk about provincialism.
[/QUOTE]
@shallowwater

yes,you are right.education standard is low in the south punjab as compared to central punjab. then the solution to this problem is that scope of the quota system should further be extended within the punjab. the seats allocated to the punjab should further be divided between the central and south punjab.

Quota System Must Be Abolished
 

In order to maintain the real meaning of the competitive examination it is necessary to implement its system in the real letter and spirit. All the allocations must be done on the basis of final merit. Quota system not only gives relaxation to candidates but also minimizes the quality of preparation. Those who compete in the cut throat competition on all Pakistan basis are the real talented people. Otherwise the name of the exam be changed from competitive examination to Quota based recruitment exam..

[QUOTE=shallowwater;350826]@ Floydian

So you have said that merit is not everything always. Well i think merit is the basis of success of any system. If we have created this institution of FPSC and CSS exam only to satisfy the small provinces then i think the seats should be distributed among them without any test or anything. People are working hard to get more marks just because they think that more they score more would be their chances of allocation. But thats not the case really. Only through hard work and merit based system can Pakistan prosper. Otherwise the chaos that we see in the country would grow day by day. A person who has come through a merit oriented system would have respect for the institutions.[/QUOTE]

@ Safdar Jang
You are a student of constitutional law and political science but still you chose to missed the context. No one is given seat in charity. FPSC does all recruitments on the basis of merit. There are open merit seats and then there are regional and women reserved quota seats which are also awarded on the basis of merit. So instead of filling all the seats on open merit there is a merit-cum-quota system. This system ensures not only merit but also a judicious share of all provinces and women in the federal services.

as honourable members shared their views about this matter, the conclusion is that there should be province merit, every province will get their own right.
thanks for the great members who said that province merit should be there.:bow

No the quota system must go as it has hampered progress. It creates a sense of complacency in the people of other provinces that after qualifying the written they would be definitely allocated. And also the carried over seats must be distributed among the people of all provinces rather than keeping them for future.

[QUOTE=floydian;350790]And Pak Army's quota is a separate issue. Our history necessitates such a system. But i hope the civilian government do away with military induction in civil services sooner rather than later.[/QUOTE]

Brother, our history had necessitated such a system, but our present does not necessarily need it and it is an agreed thing, that the government should do away with the military induction. The genesis of military induction in civilian bureaucracy can little be found from a recently published column,

[url=http://www.columnspk.com/military-in-civil-service-by-aminullah-chaudry/]Military in civil service By Aminullah Chaudry | Columnspk.com | English Newspaper Columns, News, Top Stories, World News, Politics, Middle East[/url]

[QUOTE=redmax;350831]I quoted the example in response to a member's post that said Punjab has never raised slogan under it's own name whereas other provinces more often play provincialism. Provincialism or to be more specific, egionalism is the norm of the day. You, I or anyone cannot deny it. We are taught to heed the call of the day and not to run away from it. ...............When I showed lack of confidence in the govt.s' capability to deliver in my last post, I had this information in my mind that it has not succeeded in last 3 decades to bring a uniform educational system across the country ...................

Pardon me for the simplicity but I do count the people of Punjab as representatives of their province. Idea of abolition of quota system is put forward by a resident of Punjab and is duly supported by his peers from the same region. I recognize this as voice of Punjab, though you may differ.

Reforms may be welcomed if they do not further marginalize the alienated people of some provinces. Reforms should be reforms and NOT mere amendments that serve the interests of some at the cost of many.
[/QUOTE]

Dear if one or two agrieved people are from Punjab and they are having certain point of view, it does'nt mean that Punjab is bad or Punjab is trying to devour upon other provinces. Probably you have been having an idea that Punjab is getting a lion's share in everything and now trying to eat up the quota system, no this is not the actual thing, I have just tried to dispell this impression that Punjab is bad or Punjabi airs regionalism or racism. .. We should all think like being Pakistanis putting our castes/race aside for the greater national interest. We, being a part of our nation as well as part of civil beaurucracy, should not think that any race is trying to oppress the other race. Problems are everywhere, including in the Punjab. The people of Punjab are not living in heaven when people of other country are in trouble. .. We must shun the concept of regionalism at all cost when a number of enemies are at our doorstep to break us apart...

[QUOTE=shallowwater;351141]No the quota system must go as it has hampered progress. It creates a sense of complacency in the people of other provinces that after qualifying the written they would be definitely allocated. And also the carried over seats must be distributed among the people of all provinces rather than keeping them for future.[/QUOTE]

This is issue of serious concern that many individuals, even having lot of hardwork and passing all the rounds of css, dont get allocated. This creates a sense of alienation amongst them and the governmnet should do something for their prosperity.

The quota system, in current system, is not required to be disbanded, rather the actual people from backward areas should be given consideration instead of the people, who spent their lives in big cities studying in best educational institutions of big cities and get benefit of quota system to sit in the csp laders.

The actual notion of quota system is varied nature/disparity of educational systems in different parts of the country so that students for far flung areas are given due consideration. But in case eight persons, one each from Multan, Lahore, Sukkur, Quetta, Peshawar, Parachanar, Ghanche and Karachi remained class fellows throughout their educational career i.e. studying in same educational institutions from class first to graduation/post graduation at Quaid-e-Azam University having grooming/nurturing in same environment, thn apparently there needs not to be given consideration under quota system. In this way, the actual/needy individual, who studied in backward school of Mastung, Khairpur, D.I.Khan, Gopis/Yasir, Miranshah or even for matter that at D.G. Khan(Punjab) , will suffer and will not be able to get allocation even though having domicile from FATA, Balochistan or Sindh.

Reforms should be made so that level playing field be given to our brethren hailing from all areas of our beloved homeland Islamic Republic of Pakistan....

Reforms ,reforms and only reforms can do something.
Among reforms ...educational reforms should be given real attention.All Pakistanies should be given equal rights....slogans of "Parha likha Punjab" should must be converted into "parha likha pakistan"...if governments of other provinces are not thinking about "parha likha balochistan" and "IT labs in All sindhi school"...federal government should raise the question of authenticity of allocated budgets.


Regards

[QUOTE=Hasan Raza Awan;350982][B]
janab ye log shamil hain kbhi inko khd se alag nai smjha cz ye hain to Pakistan hai but main sirf itna khta hon [B]jo jiska roght hai wo do use n right chenne ki try mt kro.[/B][/QUOTE]

I hope live up to your words - especially the highlighted ones.

[QUOTE=zeeshan1001;351002]In order to maintain the real meaning of the competitive examination it is necessary to implement its system in the real letter and spirit. [I]All the allocations must be done on the basis of final merit. [/I]Quota system not only gives relaxation to candidates but also minimizes the quality of preparation. Those who compete in the cut throat competition on all Pakistan basis are the real talented people. [I]Otherwise the name of the exam be changed from competitive examination to Quota based recruitment exam[/I]..[/QUOTE]

All the allocations are done on the basis of final merit list. The only difference is that FPSC does not take instructions from you or me, it prepared the final merit list as per its constitution.

[QUOTE=shallowwater;351141]No the quota system must go as it has hampered progress. It creates a sense of complacency in the people of other provinces that after qualifying the written they would be definitely allocated. And also the carried over seats must be distributed among the people of all provinces rather than keeping them for future.[/QUOTE]

So much for the individualism and optimistic approach. We are so frustratingly running after pulling the legs of candidates from other provinces that we almost tend to forget our own worth. Complacency is one's own issue and has nothing to do with the quota system and national interest at large. So much for the irrational arguments!

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;351168]Brother, our history had necessitated such a system, but our present does not necessarily need it and it is an agreed thing, that the government should do away with the military induction. The genesis of military induction in civilian bureaucracy can little be found from a recently published column,

[url=http://www.columnspk.com/military-in-civil-service-by-aminullah-chaudry/]Military in civil service By Aminullah Chaudry | Columnspk.com | English Newspaper Columns, News, Top Stories, World News, Politics, Middle East[/url]


Dear if one or two aggrieved people are from Punjab and they are having certain point of view, it does'nt mean that Punjab is bad or Punjab is trying to devour upon other provinces. Probably you have been having an idea that Punjab is getting a lion's share in everything and now trying to eat up the quota system, no this is not the actual thing, I have just tried to dispell this impression that Punjab is bad or Punjabi airs regionalism or racism. .. We should all think like being Pakistanis putting our castes/race aside for the greater national interest. We, being a part of our nation as well as part of civil beaurucracy, should not think that any race is trying to oppress the other race. Problems are everywhere, including in the Punjab. The people of Punjab are not living in heaven when people of other country are in trouble. .. We must shun the concept of regionalism at all cost when a number of enemies are at our doorstep to break us apart...


This is issue of serious concern that many individuals, even having lot of hardwork and passing all the rounds of css, dont get allocated. This creates a sense of alienation amongst them and the governmnet should do something for their prosperity.

The quota system, in current system, is not required to be disbanded, rather the actual people from backward areas should be given consideration instead of the people, who spent their lives in big cities studying in best educational institutions of big cities and get benefit of quota system to sit in the csp laders.

The actual notion of quota system is varied nature/disparity of educational systems in different parts of the country so that students for far flung areas are given due consideration. But in case eight persons, one each from Multan, Lahore, Sukkur, Quetta, Peshawar, Parachanar, Ghanche and Karachi remained class fellows throughout their educational career i.e. studying in same educational institutions from class first to graduation/post graduation at Quaid-e-Azam University having grooming/nurturing in same environment, thn apparently there needs not to be given consideration under quota system. In this way, the actual/needy individual, who studied in backward school of Mastung, Khairpur, D.I.Khan, Gopis/Yasir, Miranshah or even for matter that at D.G. Khan(Punjab) , will suffer and will not be able to get allocation even though having domicile from FATA, Balochistan or Sindh.

Reforms should be made so that level playing field be given to our brethren hailing from all areas of our beloved homeland Islamic Republic of Pakistan....[/QUOTE]

Allow me to [U]conclude[/U] it, Mr. Mod.

1. We cannot do away with quota because it serves the national interest where secessionist movements are already on the rise with covert support. It is also necessitated by our own system of government to provide uniform and justified chances of opportunities to all its citizens.

2. Reforms that do not directly or indirectly affect the interests of other provinces should be introduced.

3. I personally believe those candidates who are left out after the final allocation should be interviewed by various ministries as per their qualifications and inducted as Assistant Directors (BS-17). This will also optimize the process of recruiting hundreds of ADs by various ministries each year. This may also help eradicating the malpractice of inducting sons and daughters of ministers, MNAs and Senators' as ADs in their respective departments/Ministries.


[B]Regards[/B],