Local Government Status - Page 2

Muhammad T S Awan · #11 Tuesday, December 13, 2011

Rightly advised by Red Hawk

and Nadeem sb.......

General Musharraf, like his predecessors viz Ayub and Zia, tried to give an impression that he is a good administrator and launched LG System, which was apparently a blend/copy paste of certain foreign administrative procedures. Result was a haphazard hotchpotch and confused structure putting Nazims at top of the civil machinery. These Nazims were having political affiliations and abused the powers to victimize their opponents and favor their cronies... Its hoped that soon pro-LG 2001 structure will be enforced in all areas of the country, which may be necessary for smooth sailing of the nation...

mani1 · #12 Tuesday, December 13, 2011

Can someone please explain what are 1st class magistracy powers?

Secondly, I would request all of you to please add detailed pros and cons of commissionerate system

Red.Hawk · #13 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani1

Can someone please explain what are 1st class magistracy powers?

Secondly, I would request all of you to please add detailed pros and cons of commissionerate system

In 1st Class Magistracy the Magistrat listens the Criminal and Civil cases which have maximum punishment upto 3 years...these cases relate to the day to day/routine offences by the general public....for example Adulteration in eatables,selling goods at higher prices than fixed by the market committee, charging higher fair from the passengers by the public transport, violation of Section 144, Committing offense under section 353 of the PPC, Problems created by the public in the enforcement of anti-encrochment laws, judicial proceedings against quakes, minor thefts( like stealing of main hole lids)

If you look at all the above mentioned offences, these are related to local administration, if these powers are not with the District administration then the administration cannot work smoothly...For example if the administration visits a location which is illegally possessed by people and it is a Govt property, when the Govt tries to vacate the area, the people go to civil judge and get the stay order until dispute is resolved and you know very well that there is a lot of pressure of other cases on the civil judges so the cases like mentioned above kept on lingering on and the Govt property remains un-vacated and if the administration tries to do so "Contempt of Court" charges are levied on the administration and they are mistreated in the courts...how ironic....

I do not see any draw back in the commissionerate system....In its last shape in the commissionerate system, the local bodies were there but they were not performing their job properly, they were given the task of pointing out the areas where the development had to be made and the DC with the approval of the Provincial Govt was bound to undertake that development project (provided funds were there). A lot of people argue that a lot of development was made during post-devolution period....well we should just give it a thought that what were those years??? these were the years when we entered into alliance with the USA on war on terror and there were massive inflow of funds into Pakistan by USA and other donor agencies...the development was merely due to the excessive funds received by the then Govt...Otherwise everyone knows that whether corruption element was more during DC system or was more under Nazim system (Exceptions can be there but I am talking about in general term/majority of the cases)

SADIA SHAFIQ · #14 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red.Hawk

Well, the problem here in Pakistan is that who so ever gets power misuses it...When the power was given to the elected representatives, they used that against their political opponents and the added problem is that they had no interest in the matters except to be re-elected, they looked to benefit the people who are from his party or who are his supporter...Now he was the head of the district, whenever there was a problem in the district when Punjab Govt tried to contact him, he was not available because he was NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF THE PROVINCIAL GOVT and practically Provincial Govt could not have done anything against him, in such scenario what was the role of the provincial Govt??? Just to pass laws??? and head the secretariat? and when it came to the implementations of the instructions of the secretaries of the different provincial departments; the Nazims again were non cooperative and in some cases say big NO to follow the instructions.

What people think, are the MPAs and MNAs not the elected representatives of the public? dont they have a specific area (constuency) to whose people they are answerable when they will again go to public for votes? every MPA/MNA is given millions of rupees as developemnt budget to spend it in his constuency...whatever development work they need in their constuency, they can have it done through CM and if they say that CM doesnt listen to them, then its their political problem NOT the problem in the system

In earlier days, whenever there was an emergency situation in the distt, DC was contacted, being the administrative head of the distt, he was responsible for whatever happened in the distt...In new system the dimensions or the scope of duties of DCO & DPO regarding maintenance of law n order are vague...

Everyone/every politician is seen condemning Musharaf on all his decisions but when it comes to LGO, they say it is that n that system....it is just like to get a tuition of physics from a teacher of english...when his way of getting power was illegal (in real sense, although he had got that validated from this very CJ) then how come his LGO which was NOT PASSED BY ANY ELECTED BODY/ASSEMBLY can be right...The Government should do onething...it should take the LGO matter in all provincial Governments and IF any of the provincial assembly approves the bill, that province must adopt this system otherwise that should be scrapped because this system did not come into existence by legal ways....

Today thousands of cases are pending in civil courts which are of trivial nature....Had there been Magistracy those cases had never been piled up...the nature of the cases include of minor thefts etc

In short the system had been seriously messed up...now there are bright chances of it being restored but lets see what these political masters do

Very nice elobaratioon of LG and commissionearte system . well , i have a question .if this system, LG is not suited due to lack of co-ooperation of nazims then what made nazims to co-operate with provincial government in west .This is one aspect why democracy could not be nurtured properly in Pakistan.

second ,Nazim is elected by people /awam . DC in that case is elected by provincial govenment . if i will support this system then it means i am going against democracy or its ethics .SHOULD I??

Magistrat more listens to the nazims then DC .so there are many constarinst in powers of DC also .how he /she can perform well .it is another question .and DC slso abuses the powers when commisionarete sysytem is implemented .

kindly also provide some information about articles of constitution which support commisionerate system or in what cases it should be implemented .

Waqar Abro · #15 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

I will define this LG system in one and short para;
1. Bureaucrats are educated and trained;coming through the merit system being maintained by Fpsc. while Nazims who are unable to write and read ,in the name of awaam,took charge and started spoiling the administration system

To conclude: " If a civilization fails it is just because breakdown of administration"
(DONHAM)

Regards,

nadem · #16 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

@ Sadia

DC comes under provincial Govt...if DC misuses the power then there is an ACR systemand his promotions could be stopped whereas Nazim had no system.of accountbility

Yes DC is posted by provincial Govt but Provincial Govt is elected by the general public and the local MPAs represent the locals in the provincial assembly...Moreover If a DC misuses his power there is a system of " TEHREEK E ESTEHQAQ" in the provincial assembly and that DC can be taken to task and punished and even removed from service if the offense is so much...whqt can be done against the Nazim??? No Tehreek e estehqaq no ACR no threat of transfer..just nothing

If Nazim.is elected by the people then MPA is also...Nazim juat looks after the interests of his political allies and targets his political opponets...the directions to DC by the provincial Govt pass through a system untill it reached to DC for implemebtations

During Commissionerate days there were NO Nazims so why would a Magistrat listen to Nazim when there were no Nazim?

Democracy started in west centuries ago...n what about Pakistan??? we can compare ourself only with India and in India which is the largest democracy the democracy is going successfuly with the commissionerate system...we ruined Railway system, we ruined irrigation system, we ruined the postal system and we ruined the Local Bodies systemgiven by the British...In the west the society is democratic in nature and they allow difference of opinion...here in our society even.in ours homes there is no concept of democractic values...here even a dufferent sect is not allowed to perform his religious duties freely...why we need so much security during Muharram days? Had we ben democratic in nature we would had freedom to practise our school of tjought...So we cannit compare ourselef with the west as fqr as democratic values are concerned...

Still as a nation we need many years to develop demicratic values in our society and untill then we cannot experience smooth democracy as grass root level...still we havnt been able to mature our national n provincial demicracy and we hav started looking at distt democracy already...We asa nation do.not have patience and space for difference of opinion...hw can we give our future in the hands of local "gundaas" to abuse power in favour of their supporters and aganist their opponents???? We as officers have seen this all happening around us...believe me most of these local chudhries,buuts,waderas,jutts and what n what are butchers, they still treat people like Britishesrs used to do...

nadem · #17 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waqar Abro

I will define this LG system in one and short para;
1. Bureaucrats are educated and trained;coming through the merit system being maintained by Fpsc. while Nazims who are unable to write and read ,in the name of awaam,took charge and started spoiling the administration system

To conclude: " If a civilization fails it is just because breakdown of administration"
(DONHAM)

Regards,

Beautifully said...good!

kamran00 · #18 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

Well i want to say that UC nazims/Nazims etc are not ellected purely by voting as political hold in particular area is always present in pak. Their workers are posted at polling stations where at the end all the ballet papers r in their hand n they do what they want .... Not more than 1,2 constables r there but they remain silent b/c of political system.. I'm not targeting any particular political party but each n everyone do the same where they have hold. . Atleast thats what i have seen in recent years in many areas of karachi! Reason is clear to be in power, to adminstrate , to dominate other parties and support their own by every means such as in financial matters

Red.Hawk · #19 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

100% agreed with your point of view brother...this is a hard reality in our society...Here in Pakistan an educated young man cannot contest the elections because he does not have millions of rupees to spend on election campaign (This expenses are towards those men standing on the booth as mentioned by you)

I would like to add here is that DCO is also accountable to the Public Accounts Committee of the province...as an example I am here mentioning the functions of the DCO mentioned on the City District Government, Multan's website as per LGO-2001

"The functions and powers of the District Coordination Officer:-

In every district, the Provincial Government appoints a District Coordination Officer. The District Coordination Officer is the coordinating head of the District Administration. "Coordinating head" means authority to call for review and assess the performance of the groups of offices, individually or collectively, and give directions for taking actions or measures for improving efficiency, service delivery and achievement of goals assigned in the approved plans of the District Government.

He shall -ensure that the business of the District Coordination Group of Offices is carried out in accordance with the laws for the time being in force; co-ordinate the activities of the groups of offices for coherent planning, synergistic development, effective and efficient functioning of the District Administration; exercise general supervision over programmes, projects, services, and activities of the District Administration; coordinate flow of information required by the Zila Council for performance of its functions under the Local Government Ordinance; act as Principal Accounting Officer of the District Government and be responsible to the Public Accounts Committee of the Provincial Assembly; call for information and reports from local governments in the district as required by the Provincial Government or District Government through the Tehsil Municipal Officer; prepare a report on the implementation of development plans of the District Government for presentation to the Zila Council in its annual budget session; and initiate the performance evaluation reports of the Executive District Officers and shall be countersigning officer of such reports of the District Officers initiated by the Executive District Officers"

If you look at the above functions, you will come to know that there are sooo many checks and balances on the DCO and what about the so called public elected Nazim, wjere is he accountable? is he accountable to PAC of the provincial assembly? has any performance evaluation report? does he really get the votes due to his popularity or money or undue influence on poor??? does he really serve the purpose of the people who elects him? Is he available to meet the general public in his office? atleast DCO meets the general public daily in his office and holds an open court (as directed by the CM)

and what about the fact that after all this LGO system was given by a person who himself came to power by violating the constitution...so how can you expect an offender to deliver justice to you? has any public elected body approved the current LGO in ANY assembly? why every province is reverting to previous LG system (Commissionerate system)? and they are doing so by passing that from the respective assemblies of those provinces...even Punjab has today passed a resolution in the Punjab assembly to defer the local bodies elections further by 6 months, had that system been that good, they must had gone for the elections....and remember an educated officer selected through FPSC/PPSC listens to people in an educated way, how do you think an illiterate person would talk n talks to an educated but poor person???? our MNAs and MPAs are the faces of our politicians.....now do we want to give them license to use undue influence and illegal power even at district level to favour their political companions and to target opponents???? please fellows think about it.....

sana_krn · #20 Wednesday, December 14, 2011

another problem lies with nazim wz that they were chudhries of the area n they were not running the local government but chudra

it wz most unfortunate fact that no criteria for nazim was fixed, unlimited powers were vested to Nazims and practically it wz refined system of feudalism.
LG system didnt bring any change xcept opening new doors for corruption

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