How to solve Siachen dispute?
 

Dear mates, let us start here the discussion about Siachen disupute. How would Pak-Ind solve this issue?

simply be negotiations....Both countries should call off their troops from respective areas....

Negotiation is the only way to resolve the problem.

However, the stubborn attitude of India is the only cause of pending disputes between both the countries. India initiated this issue by deploying its troops in a territory where simply life cannot sustain. No grass, no animal, no bird can survive there.

You can bring such a unregenerate and obstinate to negotiation table only when there is a mutuality of position in both the sides. Lets build Pakistan on such strong footing that its voice be considered of importance in the global perspective.

We do not know the exact military and strategic reasons due to which both the countries have been keeping their armies in Siachin since 1984. So it is not possible to assume that both the countries will agree to withdrawal of the troops immidiately.

Still, we can assume that incidents like Gyari Sector tragedy might open the doors of negotiation and dialogue in near future.

Regards

Simple solution is that both Pak and india should send back their troops to the 1983 position.This is also what PAK persists on.

But indian's perspective on the issue is that the dipute should be resolved on the basis of "Ground realities" i.e the present position of both the armies in siachen should be taken as the international border line between the two countries.

An interesting point worth mentioning here is that it is believed that indian politicians are willing to compromise and accept the solution given by PAK but indian army is a hurdle in this regard.

I read somewhere that Indian army is already 60 km inside PAK's territory in siachen.

Here we should also elaborate the reasons that why the both countries are keeping their armies in Siachen..

The current conflict over Siachen Glacier is part of the bitter, unresolved dispute between Pakistan and India over Kashmir - a dispute which dates back to the independence of the two states in Agust 1947 as a result of the partition of the Indian sub-continent based on Muslim and Hindu majority populations. The Siachen issue arose over the interpretation of the precise direction of the line of control beyond grid point NJ 9842 as it turns through the ice-covered area of northern Kashmir. In the Karachi Agreement (27 July 1949), it was specified that the line would move "north to the glaciers" from Khor, the last identified location.

The Siachen glacier is the highest battleground on earth, where India and Pakistan have fought intermittently since April 13, 1984. Both countries maintain permanent military presence in the region at a height of over 6,000 metres (20,000 ft). More than 2000 people have died in this inhospitable terrain, mostly due to weather extremes and the natural hazards of mountain warfare.

The Indian army controls all of the 70 kilometres (43 mi) long Siachen Glacier and all of its tributary glaciers, as well as the three main passes of the Saltoro Ridge immediately west of the glacier Sia La, Bilafond La, and Gyong Lathus holding onto the tactical advantage of high ground.

The Pakistanis control the glacial valley just five kilometers southwest of Gyong La. The Pakistanis have been unable get up to the crest of the Saltoro Ridge, while the Indians cannot come down and abandon their strategic high posts.

The line between where Indian and Pakistani troops are presently holding onto their respective posts is being increasingly referred to as the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL).

Now come to the strategical reasons that why India wants to be there and why its obligation for Pakistan to protect Siachen. As Siachen Glacier is an integral part of Baltistan, a region in Pakistan's Northern Areas, Pakistan responded quickly to forestall Indian agression and foil the Indian attempt at using the passes over glacier to invade and occupy more territory. The Indian occupation of Siachen Glacier also threatens the Karakoram Highway (the old "Silk Route"), which is a major road linking Pakistan to China at the Khunjerab Pass. By its strong resolve and determination Pakistan has thus prevented future Indian aggression in the region. For Pakistan Siachen is much important strategically. This strategical significance of Siachen is the also the reason for India to invade.

To solve this dispute, India must take initiate because the dispute started by Indian Army in 1984 actually. And political leaders of both countries need to sit for table talk for the solution of the problem. As they started the dispute first so we (Pakistan Army) have to defend her country at any cost. If we initiate, the result will be same as we faced at the time of kargil dispute and they will definitely advantage the situation.

I am sorry to say this but its true that like the Kashmir issue, Siachen issue is impossible to resolve until India is stronger than Pakistan. If we want to gain better results of negotiations at first we will have to improve our economy and law and order situation internally. Its a long process.....................

I am really sorry to say that How India is more strong than Us (Pakistan)? In my view the strength of a country can be judge by the the moral courage or courage of the masses. I have personal experience that the Hindus of India who are in the majority in strength there, having such a lack of the same courage. I am using the courage word just in accordance with the discussion topic. They are less strong than us. When the feet of cat burnt, they press her own child under her feet. in the same manner when India become helpless, she run towards supreme power of the world.

Another very important factor which normally we ignored is that China friendship and influence about the siachen nexus. Have any one consider it from this angle that why China is our friend, not friend but a very close friend of us after Sino-India war 1962.

[QUOTE=sidogar;424660]I am really sorry to say that How India is more strong than Us (Pakistan)? In my view the strength of a country can be judge by the the moral courage or courage of the masses. I have personal experience that the Hindus of India who are in the majority in strength there, having such a lack of the same courage. I am using the courage word just in accordance with the discussion topic. They are less strong than us. When the feet of cat burnt, they press her own child under her feet. in the same manner when India become helpless, she run towards supreme power of the world.

Another very important factor which normally we ignored is that China friendship and influence about the siachen nexus. Have any one consider it from this angle that why China is our friend, not friend but a very close friend of us after Sino-India war 1962.[/QUOTE]

my dear fellow you can't fight a war with mere courage in front of heavy weapons and stronger economy......
don't be over optimistic plz...
and about the friendship with china then keep it in mind that among nations there is nothing like friendship its just mutual interest...
it is not in the interest of China to get into the war with regional aswel as superpowers....
if it would not have been the case then China shouldn't have backed down the financing of Pak-Iran gas pipeline.

[QUOTE=sabahatbhutta;424986]my dear fellow you can't fight a war with mere courage in front of heavy weapons and stronger economy......
don't be over optimistic plz...
and about the friendship with china then keep it in mind that among nations there is nothing like friendship its just mutual interest...
it is not in the interest of China to get into the war with regional aswel as superpowers....
if it would not have been the case then China shouldn't have backed down the financing of Pak-Iran gas pipeline.[/QUOTE]
Dear how will you convince me with strong economy argue? America claims so though she is not now strong economically. She claims the super power of the world, but despite the facts has she won the war in Iraq and Afghanistan yet. what is the Ratio of success from since 2001. Then tell me what are the facts of heavy weapons and strongest economy? All these thing i am saying, as i have personal experience. Will any american citizen have courage to blow himself up with IED's. No dear actual fact is courage. On the contrary, i will explain my point of view with facts, but before me re-consider / examine the china interest. look and examine critically by watch geographical location of the border at map.

[QUOTE=sidogar;425006]Dear how will you convince me with strong economy argue? America claims so though she is not now strong economically. She claims the super power of the world, but despite the facts has she won the war in Iraq and Afghanistan yet. what is the Ratio of success from since 2001. Then tell me what are the facts of heavy weapons and strongest economy? All these thing i am saying, as i have personal experience. Will any american citizen have courage to blow himself up with IED's. No dear actual fact is courage. On the contrary, i will explain my point of view with facts, but before me re-consider / examine the china interest. look and examine critically by watch geographical location of the border at map.[/QUOTE]

you are talking about defeating others whilst my interest is in our victory.. don't give examples of Iraq and Afghanistan do you want to reach their fate?????
i am concerned about the safety of my people and my country.... And after all how much can you fight with India the regional power, America the super power even if you don't accept it has much power to nuke you out of the world.... What can you courage do in front of Intercontinental Ballistic atomic missile whilst you have only missiles ranging within the territory of south Asia...
And I am amazed that you still need any proof for the stronger economy of India whilst their currency is twice as powerful as ours :haha:haha

[QUOTE=sabahatbhutta;425306]you are talking about defeating others whilst my interest is in our victory.. don't give examples of Iraq and Afghanistan do you want to reach their fate?????
i am concerned about the safety of my people and my country.... And after all how much can you fight with India the regional power, America the super power even if you don't accept it has much power to nuke you out of the world.... What can you courage do in front of Intercontinental Ballistic atomic missile whilst you have only missiles ranging within the territory of south Asia...
And I am amazed that you still need any proof for the stronger economy of India whilst their currency is twice as powerful as ours :haha:haha[/QUOTE]
You means we have nothing? We have trust upon us, and i think the statement reflect that you under estimate Pakistani. And what currency play its role. Civilian like you always under estimate us. Why the eyes of the whole world is at us. From Gilgit to Jhelum the whole mountain is.................................... Sorry but their is inferiority complex you have. so invain to talk with the person who have lack of self-confidence. Just keep one thing in mind that Pakistan has strongest nuke in the world that is why we are being involved in every crisis of the world. and update your knowledge please. Also check the nuke and missile technology that Pakistan have.

Just had an opportunity to go through different posts under this thread and would like to state:

o India was usurper in the case of Siachen when she violated all agreed terms where NJ9842 was considered to be ceasefire/control line between both parts of Kashmir held by these countries. a line straight towards North from this point was to be the boundry line and Siachen is clearly lying far inside Pakistani part.

o Pakistan did same in 1965 when operation giberaltor was initially launched followed by grand salam and india started all out war bending Pakistan to agree on terms on ceasefire on mutual terms. Likewise at Kargil, Pakistan took the initiative to capture important peaks at Kargil-Dras-Leh road putting her at win-win position, but its result was not favourable for Pakistan, when India had threatened to extend war at other border fronts and Pakistan had to retaliate, resultantly, we got bad name in whole world as well as lost many precious lifes.

o China and Pakistans relations are on the simple formula of mutual interest. China would never be having bad relations with other countries merely to propagate profitless friendship.

o One should not underestimate oneself, but simultaneously one should not over estimate oneself. Pakistan's nukes can be one of the best in world, but for what?

A story is coming into my mind, i had heard that there were two neighbouring families, one started developing herself, while other family often remained active in internal strives and were unable to bind themselves in family bonding. Both were in animosity to each other and for safety, had kept guards to protect from others incursions. The guard of smaller house used to get annoyed from the internal strife and jumped into the internal affairs and took hold of house, he was authoritative and off and on used to take bridle of the affairs of house. He was no good for his primary duty, protection of his house... Problems occured in other house as well, and that was comparatively bigger thn the other, but the guard of that house did not interfere in internal affairs of that house and just kept doing his duty. Its members used to fight and thn remained developing their house towards betterment. ......

With these haphazard word, one can easily tell that the bigger household is better placed thn the smaller household ... these can be examples of India and Pakistan, without any second thought, Pakistan is the smaller house..

o If by putting some strong emotional words at this discussion side, I feel myself a strategist planner or an expert in foreign policy or by sorting out some posts in forum, i start thinking myself as a good administer of things, there would be no bigger fool thn me....

Regret if anybody is offended, dear, we should not overestimate overselves.... Unity is strength and together we stand, we should realize mistakes done by us in past and should have to undo those mistakes, instead of making more mistakes....

Regards

Should We Withdraw First???
 

Few months back our soldiers and pride of the nation received the biggest award in Islam (Shahadat) at Gyari sector due to a natural disaster. May the departed souls rest in peace and may the patience be with their families in every moment. Quran Says . .

"[3:169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;"

So the issue is should our army quit the Gyari sector to avoid any other irreparable loss in future?? Or it should be there to do not let our enemies play any move?? As per reports both the countries has spent millions of dollars in out there and definitely they won't let it go into vein. After this dreadful tragedy, a very shocking and sordid trend emerged in certain media circles within Pakistan, like SAFMA (South Asian Free Media), demanding withdrawal of forces from Siachen. On 9th April 2012, two days after the awful tragedy, SAFMA head Imtiaz Alam stated, ―Why should we be going for an agreement? We should just withdraw. If we do that, Indian domestic pressure will also result in a withdrawal there. They will say it is madness to continue.Without giving proper knowledge of background of the incident and history of conflict on world‟s highest battlefield these self-claimed peace preachers began to tell the Pakistanis that it is time to bring our boys home unilaterally because Siachen glacier is melting due to presence of forces there and this deployment of force is futile. Apart from the compromised media elements, the political leadership also failed to show solidarity with the defenders of Pakistan immediately after the incident. The entire nation is on the brink of complete internal chaos and Pakistan Army has been caught in a ruthless and cut- throat battle against the religious and secular terrorists and separatists in ongoing massive 4GW and needs the backing and support of every nook and corner of the country. But unfortunately, the regime in Islamabad is busy in its survival exercise and isolating itself from every important national security and governance issue like the awful tragedy at Gyari sector. There are many other factors which are letting us down in many aspects. But both the countries are at the peak of their madness.:thinking So what do u say??? Should we quit first???

Regards