[QUOTE=assassin007;444553]And in most of the cases it's zina bil jabr due to uprising frustration in our society. My intentions are not to blame anyone and being totally unbiased i'll just say no one can make it without women's permission. . until unless women will not agree, a man cannot even think to touch her!!:excl: [/QUOTE]

Seriously? Ever heard of rape?


@Shooting Star: point taken. I'm sorry :)

[QUOTE=alihashmatkhoso;444538]
i think this will be a very help full to discuss this topic, it is ought to a Muslim woman to cover her body and face according to Islamic point of view. and if all women follow the rule of Islam the cases of sexual harrasment will decrease....[/QUOTE]

And all believing men are ordered to[B] LOWER THEIR GAZE[/B]. A man who rapes a woman is a rapist, simple as that. And you know the punishment for a rapist in Islam, don't you?

[QUOTE=Hassan02;444555]Seriously? Ever heard of rape?


@Shooting Star: point taken. I'm sorry :)[/QUOTE]
oh come on. . this is 21st century and world has become a global village. . unluckily the figures are raising instead of falling and our media manipulate things very differently. . the recent example is of Uzma Ayub from peshawar. . i hope you've heard of her case?? if not than you must put a sight over it. . ??

[QUOTE=assassin007;444561]oh come on. . this is 21st century and world has become a global village. . unluckily the figures are raising instead of falling and our media manipulate things very differently. . the recent example is of Uzma Ayub from peshawar. . i hope you've heard of her case?? if not than you must put a sight over it. . ??[/QUOTE]

I've heard of the case, but I can't see how you went from there to claiming that women want to get raped.

[QUOTE=Hassan02;444733]I've heard of the case, but I can't see how you went from there to claiming that women want to get raped.[/QUOTE]
hey hey hold on bro you are totally getting it wrong. . . I just gave two phenomenons thats my personal view and i think you are lacking adults company?? Make some good friends with some experience. Take care

[QUOTE=assassin007;444759]hey hey hold on bro you are totally getting it wrong. . . I just gave two phenomenons thats my personal view and i think you are lacking adults company?? Make some good friends with some experience. Take care[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]And in most of the cases it's zina bil jabr due to uprising frustration in our society. My intentions are not to blame anyone and being totally unbiased i'll just say no one can make it without women's permission. . until unless women will not agree, a man cannot even think to touch her!![/QUOTE]

You said men can not harass women without their permission. It follows from your statement that women who get raped want to get raped. Am I right?

[QUOTE=Hassan02;444861]You said men can not harass women without their permission. It follows from your statement that women who get raped want to get raped. Am I right?[/QUOTE]
No wrong!! i just gave my own perception which is limited to me. look things are changing day by day and i am sure that you are mature enough to understand them. I'll simply give you the example of one of my colleague who had an affair few months ago. . .before they were just friends, then boyfriend and girl friend and so on. . . by the time they came to a state where both couldn't hold themselves and they just had an intercourse. Now here my friend did not even insisted her and she could have say no to him, but she didn't. . !! now what would you like to say?? there are several more examples like this which are existing in our society. . .better you should take a look around. And i'll definitely mention here again that content is my personal opinion so don't take it as something else. please . .

[QUOTE=Hassan02;444525]I've already said that the world has passed us by in the last 1400 years ago. Women were granted extraordinary by the standard of those times, but I do agree that these days, women are treated the worst in Muslim societies. But that doesn't mean the problem is with Islam; that just means that Muslims are rotten.

And indeed Muslims today are the worst kind of people, refusing to acquire knowledge, spread violence and hate and completely resistant to any change. The world is moving fast and we need to move WITH IT.

But again, the fault is with the Muslims, not Islam, the religion of peace, which puts great emphasis on acquiring knowledge.[/QUOTE]


(I didn't plead western society by saying that all filth lies in Muslims.My words should not be taken in wrong meanings to support secularism. West it self is filth and filth is invisible in filth.)


Agreed that Muslims are getting worst. This is because they follow the west. If we want to move with world then we should move with Islamic rules and regulations. There is a big space for movement to advancement with Islamic obligations. But I don't want a Muslim society to be secular and do whatever is done by non-Muslim societies just to be successful in the world. In fact Muslims are therefore getting worst because they left Islam and running after worldly success only.

And one thing more to add to your statement that a woman is secure more then the time of Hardhat MUHAMMAD Sallalahu alaihe wa sallam. NOT AGREED. Let me tell you that the Time of my beloved Prophet S.A.W.W was and off course is of no match to the before and after came times. It's ridiculous to compare secular eras with such a golden time.


What so called security is given by this modern world to women or even say to men ? Just vulgarity ? A woman in this modern age is therefore set free just to gain advantage of her being a woman. Evaluate from every field of life, she's used as a [COLOR=Navy]show piece[COLOR=Black]. Let me share here an easy example. A covered toffee is much saver from flies then a non covered one.


[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=Black]Don't bother of people, saying that a woman has nothing to do outside her home. Because this is true and truth never bothers. You replied to a brother to control your NAFS if you're such a good man but don't stop woman to go out. Tell me then how many of us would have control over nafs if Hardhat Muhammad (s.a.w.w) said that shaitaan is always there between a lonely man and woman. Are you more wiser then Prophet Muhammad ? Or your modern age is more worthy in sayings then Him ?
Control of Nafs is only performed with piety. Which I don't see in every one.


What thing compelled a woman to go out ?
If I'm let to chain those problems in words that how this modern age compelled women to go out of home just in the name of helping home economically or for other purpose (but actually for the sexual satisfaction of men) then believe me it would occupy much space and thousand of words to explain. Most important, no one here would agree cause almost all of us want unneeded out going of women.


Moreover, for instance, say a woman has right to go outside her home for any necessity i.e; to work , or travel etc. That right is already given by Islam with some set boundaries. Then she has to follow the way of Islam. And if you say that a non-Muslim woman, if , is not willing to veil then I suggest do in [COLOR=Blue]Rome as the Romans do[/COLOR]. If Muslim women are compelled to unveil their faces in some European countries forcefully and even she has to pay fine for veiling her-self then why not a non-Muslim women can be [COLOR=Blue]compelled[/COLOR] to do so according to Islamic rules ?
[/COLOR]
Ending with an urdu proverb (I don't know the English translation of it) that says " na rahega baans , na bajay gi baansury " . There wouldn't have been filth in the world if a women was not let to go out.

[QUOTE=assassin007;444866]No wrong!! i just gave my own perception which is limited to me. look things are changing day by day and i am sure that you are mature enough to understand them. I'll simply give you the example of one of my colleague who had an affair few months ago. . .before they were just friends, then boyfriend and girl friend and so on. . . by the time they came to a state where both couldn't hold themselves and they just had an intercourse. Now here my friend did not even insisted her and she could have say no to him, but she didn't. . !! now what would you like to say?? there are several more examples like this which are existing in our society. . .better you should take a look around. And i'll definitely mention here again that content is my personal opinion so don't take it as something else. please . .[/QUOTE]

Brother what your friends did was intercourse between two adults with mutual consent. That isn't what we are talking about. I understand what you are saying, there are exceptions, but don't you think that the the vast, vast majority of rapes are simply that: rapes?

Your initial statement was a little too generalized that's what created the confusion.

[QUOTE=Hassan02;444901]Brother what your friends did was intercourse between two adults with mutual consent. That isn't what we are talking about. I understand what you are saying, there are exceptions, but don't you think that the the vast, vast majority of rapes are simply that: rapes?

Your initial statement was a little too generalized that's what created the confusion.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing which i was trying to explain ya. . . see here how confidently you said that it was mutual consent b/w them but do you think in our society it would be just taken as mutual consent or maximum liberty??? of course not because it's a muslim dominated country and everybody will name this thing as (Zina) but zina bil raza, which happened by the permission of that girl. . . And now i ve taken point that what do you want say actually. . First of all we have to know that what are the reasons for which people are harassing women's even not caring of their age. . it's definitely frustration and the reason behind frustration is inflation. . means people are getting jobless and due to this they don't get married on time. And it becomes the reason for what they commit these sort of sins. Let's pray we can soon get rid of these things. Ameen.

[QUOTE=Malmeena Khan;444885]West it self is filth and filth is invisible in filth.)
[/QUOTE]

And how is Western society filthy? They are more just than any Muslim country in the world. In fact, most Muslim countries, including our very own Islamic Republic are devoid of justice and without it, no nation can survive. Islam says that.

[QUOTE]Agreed that Muslims are getting worst. This is because they follow the west.
[/QUOTE]
Wrong, if we truly followed the West we would be where they are. Islam puts tremendous emphasis on education, human rights and most of all, JUSTICE. The West is way ahead of us in all three. In a sense, they are more Muslim than we are.

[QUOTE]And one thing more to add to your statement that a woman is secure more then the time of Hardhat MUHAMMAD Sallalahu alaihe wa sallam. NOT AGREED. Let me tell you that the Time of my beloved Prophet S.A.W.W was and off course is of no match to the before and after came times. It's ridiculous to compare secular eras with such a golden time. [/QUOTE]

Centuries back, when major cities fell to sieges, they were usually plundered and thousands of women raped and killed. The enslavement of women and children is age-old and this happened in Arabia too. The mercy of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is another thing, but do you deny that many females were taken captive? After Muhammad Bin Qasim took Debal, hundreds of women were enslaved. Some were sent to the the Caliph while the others were distributed among his men. Also remember that one of the reasons for the conflict was that ships carrying women and children had been captured by pirates.

Even during the lifetime of the Prophet PBUH, the interior of Arabia was an extremely dangerous place, both for men and women. The Hindu practice of sutee was banned only by the British upon taking control. Violence against women continued long after the advent of Islam and it was until the 19th century that women started fighting for their rights and laws were passed in many countries to protect them from abuse.

I said that women are safer now than they were 1400 years ago and I've provided evidence. Now please provide evidence to back up your claim.

[QUOTE]What so called security is given by this modern world to women or even say to men ? Just vulgarity ? A woman in this modern age is therefore set free just to gain advantage of her being a woman.[/QUOTE]
I've answered this question in the above paragraph. But lets just say you wouldn't want to live in the interior of Arabia in the 10th century, where, after a war between the Bedouin tribes, you may be carried off as a slave and forced to spend your life as a mistress. Now, would you?

Evaluate from every field of life, she's used as a [COLOR=Navy]show piece[COLOR=Black]. Let me share here an easy example. A covered toffee is much saver from flies then a non covered one.

This is nothing more than rhetoric. Why don't men cover themselves up? Or are only women toffees? BTW, are you a toffee?



[QUOTE]Don't bother of people, saying that a woman has nothing to do outside her home. Because this is true and truth never bothers.[/QUOTE]
So you are against women going out of their homes? BTW, if you clear the CSS exam, do you intend to work from home?

[QUOTE] You replied to a brother to control your NAFS if you're such a good man but don't stop woman to go out. Tell me then how many of us would have control over nafs if Hardhat Muhammad (s.a.w.w) said that shaitaan is always there between a lonely man and woman. [/QUOTE]
Islam commands men to lower their gaze. Which means they can lower their gaze? Right?

[QUOTE]compelled women to go out of home just in the name of helping home economically or for other purpose (but actually for the sexual satisfaction of men) [/QUOTE]
So women go out of their homes to satisfy men? Wow, you sure are intelligent!


[QUOTE]Ending with an urdu proverb (I don't know the English translation of it) that says " na rahega baans , na bajay gi baansury " . There wouldn't have been filth in the world if a women was not let to go out.
[/QUOTE]
There wouldn't be filth if the punishment for rape was death either.