Peace Militias

[Hassan02]

What do you guys think about the Aman Lashkars? They are undeniably an asset to the law enforcement agencies, but as we've seen, the strategy of forming armed proxies has proved to be a BIG failure.

There was a report today that a militia member in Adezai burned down the house of the girl he liked (who was engaged) and killed her fiance and brother. There have also been reports in the past about how militias label their personal enemies as militants and then kill them.

In the past, a lot of people had pointed out the dangers of forming armed militias (which are essentially private armies) but they were ignored. However, it seems pretty clear now that these lashkars are a double edged sword...

[mhmmdkashif]

These lashkars are not militias, these are local tribes who vow to support the government and the government arms them, or atleast turn a blind eye on their activities . Lashkars or militias would be totally different organizations in outlook than these, e.g. Taliban were a militia, or other Mujahid groups were militias. The government should reconsider this strategy, it will win it more enemies than friends as tribes can never serve the purpose of a force.

[Hassan02]

Originally Posted by mhmmdkashif

These lashkars are not militias, these are local tribes who vow to support the government and the government arms them, or atleast turn a blind eye on their activities . Lashkars or militias would be totally different organizations in outlook than these, e.g. Taliban were a militia, or other Mujahid groups were militias. The government should reconsider this strategy, it will win it more enemies than friends as tribes can never serve the purpose of a force.

I think they might fit a loose definition of militias, but anyways, the Pak Government is using its age-old method of using non-state armed groups to further its agenda. You are right, this won't work, but I'm amazed at the lack of any foresight in our generals, considering that they have spent years studying military strategy by the time they reach the upper echelons of the armed forces, not to mention their extensive experience.

[mhmmdkashif]

Originally Posted by Hassan02

You are right, this won't work, but I'm amazed at the lack of any foresight in our generals, considering that they have spent years studying military strategy by the time they reach the upper echelons of the armed forces, not to mention their extensive experience.

This is age old colonial mindset , I mean the British used the very same tactics 'arm your supporters to crush your enemies'. And the Generals still don't realize that the British were foreigners who were not here to build up a society, they were here to rule, so these tactics won't work anymore.

[Hassan02]

Originally Posted by mhmmdkashif

This is age old colonial mindset , I mean the British used the very same tactics 'arm your supporters to crush your enemies'. And the Generals still don't realize that the British were foreigners who were not here to build up a society, they were here to rule, so these tactics won't work anymore.

Yes, but the British were never as careless as our own Government/Army. Once you are considered an "asset" by the Pak Army, you might as well burn down a city and get away with it. Plus, I'm not too sure the British would have pursued this strategy if the technology was on par with the present day; and here I'm talking about the small things, like communications (phones, internet etc etc), remote controlled bombs, assault rifles, mortars, cars etc

[mhmmdkashif]

Originally Posted by Hassan02

Yes, but the British were never as careless as our own Government/Army. Once you are considered an "asset" by the Pak Army, you might as well burn down a city and get away with it. Plus, I'm not too sure the British would have pursued this strategy if the technology was on par with the present day; and here I'm talking about the small things, like communications (phones, internet etc etc), remote controlled bombs, assault rifles, mortars, cars etc

The British knew what they were doing, our Generals are just blindly imitating what the British did . Americans used the same tactics in Iraq, also in Afghanistan; but our Generals don't realize they won't do the same if there was an insurgency in their own homeland, i.e. you don't divide and rule your own people.

[Hassan02]

Originally Posted by mhmmdkashif

but our Generals don't realize they won't do the same if there was an insurgency in their own homeland, i.e. you don't divide and rule your own people.

Which again brings us to the main point: Why the hell are our general so incompetent? People with the rank of Major General and above have years of experience under their belt plus a thorough study of military strategies. And yet they refuse to learn from history, repeating the same mistakes again and again which clearly shows that something is seriously wrong.

Take Kargil for example, a botched up operation presided over by a Chief who tries to come across as the most intelligent person since Einstein Or maybe that's the problem: arrogance...

[mhmmdkashif]

Originally Posted by Hassan02

Which again brings us to the main point: Why the hell are our general so incompetent? People with the rank of Major General and above have years of experience under their belt plus a thorough study of military strategies. And yet they refuse to learn from history, repeating the same mistakes again and again which clearly shows that something is seriously wrong.

Take Kargil for example, a botched up operation presided over by a Chief who tries to come across as the most intelligent person since Einstein Or maybe that's the problem: arrogance...

Years of experience of what; bossing orderlies, juniors, troops and the whole nation or commanding soldiers in rugged battlefields for protracted periods of time . I mean education does not give any 'experience', thats like doing a PhD in blitzkrieg battle tactics will make you General Guderian . Rather too much education puts this 'intellectual arrogance' in your attitude. Experience is something you learn from doing something, it teaches you the truth about reality. Our Generals think more like politicians than professional military officers, this has something to do with the culture and environment where you have grown up . They are eager to prove their capabilities, but unfortunately poor Generals have so far remained unable to find an opportunity to prove themselves so they end up making such 'wise decisions' like creating tribal 'amn lashkars' or launching 'Kargil operation' .

[Hassan02]

Originally Posted by mhmmdkashif

Years of experience of what; bossing orderlies, juniors, troops and the whole nation or commanding soldiers in rugged battlefields for protracted periods of time . I mean education does not give any 'experience', thats like doing a PhD in blitzkrieg battle tactics will make you General Guderian .

They do regular military exercises and officers are regularly sent to Britain and the US for further training. At least the nation pays for these things, God only knows if they actually learn something there or just sit around playing bridge

Also, since we are the best (MashAllah), we also have the absolute training center in the world i.e. Waziristan. For the past decade, we've been sending our troops there to receive the best possible training. Year round military exercises

They are eager to prove their capabilities, but unfortunately poor Generals have so far remained unable to find an opportunity to prove themselves so they end up making such 'wise decisions' like creating tribal 'amn lashkars' or launching 'Kargil operation' .

Please at least appreciate their efforts! They also proved themselves by leaving Lahore (and other areas) undefended when the 1965 war broke out!

[shahzadabdullah]

Originally Posted by mhmmdkashif

Years of experience of what; bossing orderlies, juniors, troops and the whole nation or commanding soldiers in rugged battlefields for protracted periods of time . I mean education does not give any 'experience', thats like doing a PhD in blitzkrieg battle tactics will make you General Guderian . Rather too much education puts this 'intellectual arrogance' in your attitude. Experience is something you learn from doing something, it teaches you the truth about reality. Our Generals think more like politicians than professional military officers, this has something to do with the culture and environment where you have grown up . They are eager to prove their capabilities, but unfortunately poor Generals have so far remained unable to find an opportunity to prove themselves so they end up making such 'wise decisions' like creating tribal 'amn lashkars' or launching 'Kargil operation' .

Originally Posted by Hassan02

They do regular military exercises and officers are regularly sent to Britain and the US for further training. At least the nation pays for these things, God only knows if they actually learn something there or just sit around playing bridge

Also, since we are the best (MashAllah), we also have the absolute training center in the world i.e. Waziristan. For the past decade, we've been sending our troops there to receive the best possible training. Year round military exercises



Please at least appreciate their efforts! They also proved themselves by leaving Lahore (and other areas) undefended when the 1965 war broke out!

first of all would like to respect fully disagree with your opinion. what other choice do the government or the military of Pakistan has??? do you want them to curb each and every insurgency by intervening themselves . well we should know better than to do that because over the years we have seen the result of such military actions . i live in Baluchistan and i know the gravity of the situation in Baluchistan .
and defiling our own forces wont get you any where . at present this is the only institution that is in true sense working to save Pakistan . one should at least be thankful to them