Ex president Asif Ali Zardari made history
 

Respected memebers please share your views................

[QUOTE=Irtika;646472]Respected memebers please share your views................[/QUOTE]
[B]a sigen of democracy, a big leader and a successful president, i never ever see such a politician, being a Pakistani i am very happy today, he extenuated the politics of avange,same policy is suggested to the present president, it is expedient for the democracy as well as nation.
here one thing i must say that he leaved an exemple of patient and tolerance, a man who had sent him jail for a long time today he gave him guard of honor...
[/B]

Achievements of former president:

1)The policy of reconciliation initiated by Zardari negated the decades old policy of political victimization and revenge.It helped maintain unity among political parties and prevented any military coup.

2)Constitutional amendments were passed which ensured supremacy of parliament.Article 58-2(b) was repealed,which manifested rising democratic spirit.Gilgit-Baltistan package was approved,which gave enough political space to the region.

3)Successful enactment of NFC award is another milestone.This time,multi-factor based resource allocation reduced the risks of inter-provincial tensions.

4)PPP government not only completed its term,but also transferred the power to next civilian government.

5)He kept the party intact and prevented it from disintegration.

These all achievements have made Pakistan a truly democratic country.The reforms of previous government will have long lasting effects on the future of democracy in Pakistan.

[B][QUOTE=Irtika;646472]Respected memebers please share your views................[/QUOTE]


18nth amendment or NFC couldn't fill the empty stomach of poor; curtail corruption or erode the very fundamentals of Feudalism. However I would say he is a successful politician but an unscrupulous person.
[/B]


[B]Sorry Jiyalas [/B]:))

[QUOTE=Invincible;646496][B]


18nth amendment or NFC couldn't fill the empty stomach of poor; curtail corruption or erode the very fundamentals of Feudalism. However I would say he is a successful politician but an unscrupulous person.
[/B]


[B]Sorry Jiyalas [/B]:))[/QUOTE]
[B]and here we are talking about, his politics and leadership, we have not need to unearth his personality .... stay blessed

[QUOTE=Invincible;646496][B]


18nth amendment or NFC couldn't fill the empty stomach of poor; curtail corruption or erode the very fundamentals of Feudalism. However I would say he is a successful politician but an unscrupulous person.
[/B]


[B]Sorry Jiyalas [/B]:))[/QUOTE]

Brother,these reforms demand time to bear fruits.We should not expect economic boom in a country marred by military interventions and extremism.

Zardari tenure has gone good with Constituional issues like NFC award,18th ammendment,their policy of reconcillation have bring about good changes in constituion which are a milestone because it never happens before..atleast democratic process has started..The problems lies with the implementation of these polices..Zardari government went wrong with administrative reforms..Now the burden lies on Nawaz government..lets hope they end the blame game and seriously do some good for the country:wait.

[QUOTE=mehruu gondal;646523]Zardari tenure has gone good with Constituional issues like NFC award,18th ammendment,their policy of reconcillation have bring about good changes in constituion which are a milestone because it never happens before..atleast democratic process has started..The problems lies with the implementation of these polices..Zardari government went wrong with administrative reforms..Now the burden lies on Nawaz government..lets hope they end the blame game and seriously do some good for the country:wait.[/QUOTE]
[B][QUOTE]Zardari government went wrong with administrative reforms..Now the burden lies on Nawaz government..lets hope they end the blame game and seriously do some good for the country.[/QUOTE][/B]

[B][COLOR="DarkGreen"][I]dear i think previous govt paved way for newly born govt, now nawz has to prove that he is also a patriot, but i don't think so he is, on the score of his performance of last three months, he has proved that he did not learn from history, and his politics of revenge is going on, give credit where credit is due ......[/I][/COLOR][/B]

Drones, IMF loans, NATO supply and Judiciary were the main issues that compelled people not to vote for Zardari but now we have seen Imran who have authority in KPK isn't halting NATO supply, Drones which come under the authority of Nawaz aren't been stopped, rest we know about new IMF loan.

rahi baat judiciary ki to filhal apna banda hai jab zaroorat parhi deewar tor ker hamla bhi kardiya jayega. so agar zardari doosron say acha nai to kamaskam bura bhi nai, lakin phr bhi samja jata hai sirf is liye k charisma nai zardari may, jo k hamaray 'burgers' ko kafi attract karta hai movies jo ziyada daikhtay hain. :evil so with bad image, and many enemies (army, imran, nawaz, terrorism, clash within ppp) he survived and gave pakistan a new sort of politics is really his achievement.

congratulation Asif ali zardari (y)

[QUOTE=Irtika;646472]Respected memebers please share your views................[/QUOTE]
YES HE made history . Asif Zardari was the only President in the world ,who has the popularity level of only 11%. I suggest that he should be awarded with nobel prize for being the most hated president ever....!

[QUOTE=Irtika;646472]Respected memebers please share your views................[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]Whether one admits or not He has been the most discussed personality in Pakistan. I have never seen a person with such perseverance, resourcefulness and patience. You can not deny that people illogically wrote stupid and insane things about him. Our some renowned journalists(read propaganda-mongers), even wrote that Zalzala aya to Zardari ki wja se aya sailab aya to zardari ki wja se aya.. bala bala. But he did not bother to retaliate. He practised tolerance which had been lacking in our political history. He did not take revenge form Mian Sahb who cut his tongue and kept him in prison for 12 long years. He introduced the concept of reconciliation and forgiveness which is remarkable.
I am unable to find why people bash him so much? There are many killers, murderers, companions of terrorists, morally corrupt, bank defaulters etc. in Pakistani political scene that Mr. Zardari seems to be nascent before them. :laugh:[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=M B AFZAL;646571]YES HE made history . Asif Zardari was the only President in the world ,who has the popularity level of only 11%. I suggest that he should be awarded with nobel prize for being the most hated president ever....![/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]Can you give me the sole reason to hate him?
It is our tragedy that people don not follow logic. No offence meant brother![/SIZE]

Thanks to all respected members for their contribution
 

No doubt Zardari sahib made the history..!!
He succeeded to survive even in harsh and anti zardari environment, where judiciary was against him from very 1st day, where media was against him., where almost all people were against him..........!!!
Sabahat is right that he is most tolerant politician, only time will tell that what he did for pakistan.......!!

He saved pakistan by raising slogan "Pakistan Khapy" at crucial time........!!!

I would like to pay tribute to him by quoting this...................

Aqal Nakabil Yaqeen, Himat bey panah, sabar bey intiha........!!
Ye sifat -e- Shair nahn, Sifat-e-Insani hy....................!!!

Ex president Mr Asif ali zardari remember as 1st
 

Ex president Mr Asif ali zardari remember as a frist politicat president who complete the period of presidancy in 66 year pakistan history.

[B][QUOTE=alihashmatkhoso;646501][B]and here we are talking about, his politics and leadership, we have not need to unearth his personality .... stay blessed[/QUOTE].

There is huge difference between 'Politics & Leadership'.

[QUOTE=Mutu;646506]Brother,these reforms demand time to bear fruits.We should not expect economic boom in a country marred by military interventions and extremism.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough! Any justification of rise in blatant corruption in his tenure?

[QUOTE=sarang ali shaikh;646557]Drones, IMF loans, NATO supply and Judiciary were the main issues that compelled people not to vote for Zardari but now we have seen Imran who have authority in KPK isn't halting NATO supply, Drones which come under the authority of Nawaz aren't been stopped, rest we know about new IMF loan.

[/QUOTE]

No one created hindrance in his way to perform for the betterment of this country.

[QUOTE=sabahatbhutta;646608][SIZE="3"]Whether one admits or not He has been the most discussed personality in Pakistan. I have never seen a person with such perseverance, resourcefulness and patience. You can not deny that people illogically wrote stupid and insane things about him. Our some renowned journalists(read propaganda-mongers), even wrote that Zalzala aya to Zardari ki wja se aya sailab aya to zardari ki wja se aya.. bala bala. But he did not bother to retaliate. He practised tolerance which had been lacking in our political history. He did not take revenge form Mian Sahb who cut his tongue and kept him in prison for 12 long years. He introduced the concept of reconciliation and forgiveness which is remarkable.
I am unable to find why people bash him so much? There are many killers, murderers, companions of terrorists, morally corrupt, bank defaulters etc. in Pakistani political scene that Mr. Zardari seems to be nascent before them. :laugh:[/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]

Everyone shared the booty in that 'reconciliatory' policy.

[QUOTE=Irtika;646616]No doubt Zardari sahib made the history..!!
He succeeded to survive even in harsh and anti zardari environment, where judiciary was against him from very 1st day, where media was against him., where almost all people were against him..........!!!
Sabahat is right that he is most tolerant politician, only time will tell that what he did for pakistan.......!!

He saved pakistan by raising slogan "Pakistan Khapy" at crucial time........!!!

I would like to pay tribute to him by quoting this...................

Aqal Nakabil Yaqeen, Himat bey panah, sabar bey intiha........!!
Ye sifat -e- Shair nahn, Sifat-e-Insani hy....................!!![/QUOTE]

Don't Exaggerate! We both belong to rural Sindh; tell me just 3 notable achievements by his Sindh government in 63 months?

P.S: I am not affiliated with any party. :))

[/B]

@Invincible

Brother,he had given all his powers to prime minister and the office of president was only ceremonial.The prime ministers must be held accountable for corruption.

[QUOTE=Mutu;646687]@Invincible

Brother,he had given all his powers to prime minister and the office of president was only ceremonial.The prime ministers must be held accountable for corruption.[/QUOTE]

[B]Don't tell me that. ;)

BTW who was the head of that PM's party?
[/B]

[QUOTE=Invincible;646700][B]Don't tell me that. ;)

BTW who was the head of that PM's party?
[/B][/QUOTE]

Zardari was the head,but not the prime minister.Governance issues must be addressed by prime minister,his cabinet and provincial chief ministers.President office plays hardly any role in governance matters.

[QUOTE=Invincible;646667][B].

Don't Exaggerate! We both belong to rural Sindh; tell me just 3 notable achievements by his Sindh government in 63 months?

P.S: I am not affiliated with any party. :))

[/B][/QUOTE]

Dear I am not exaggerating....!! i have told about his personality and the history he made......!!!

[B][QUOTE=Mutu;646718]Zardari was the head,but not the prime minister.Governance issues must be addressed by prime minister,his cabinet and provincial chief ministers.President office plays hardly any role in governance matters.[/QUOTE]

2 Points:-


1. Means, he was just an idle spectator who have been watching a 'Perfect Plunder Show' staged by his party men.

Did you mean that, bro?


2. If CM KPK fails miserably in this term, Will we spare IK or PTI?

[QUOTE=Irtika;646763]Dear I am not exaggerating....!! i have told about his personality and the history he made......!!![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Invincible;646667][B].


We both belong to rural Sindh; tell me just 3 notable achievements by his Sindh government in 63 months?

[/B][/QUOTE]

I await your response, Irtika

[/B]

Even Hitler was good than him . Atleast , he cared for people and he was not a fakie like him . :vangry

Pakistan's 3rd richest person , having politics and government , as a source of income.Really , it is a milestone . Our great Ex-president Mr Asif Ali Zardari's source of income shows everything . This was our money . With no industry and with no other source , he managed to get it . Salute to you Man , you marked your name as most corrupt leader in history .

[QUOTE=Invincible;646852][B]

I await your response, Irtika

[/B][/QUOTE]

sir sir mujay jawab ata hai, may dooon please ?

app log chahtay hai k wo chand tor k layee ... lakin bugz ki halat yeh hai k agar wo chand bhi tor k layega to kaho daikha is nay solar system kharab kardiya yeh to hai hee bura. :evil or yeh hamari puri nation ka masla hai, aisa may sochta hoo altaf hussain k baray may burger sochtay hain zardari k khilaf and so on ...so khush to kisi baat say nai hona or argument to her baat may hoga still....


1) kachi abadion ko regularise karkay zameenay un k hawalay ki mujay sirf karachi ka pata hai interior ki no source.

2) zaroorat na honay k bawajood mqm say reconciliation hui sindh may wajah yeh thee 10 log martay thay agar na hoti 100 log martay, strange and cruel but reality.

3) baqi wo koi benazir income support program type eik project tha jis may training di jati thee youth ko and zulfikarabad project ko finalise kiya, land reforms may kafi zameenay autron ko dayna ka ailan hua tha (don't know di ya nai) etc


buhat zor day rahay thay app, boss, is liye 3 4 batay bata di is tarah 30 40 bhi bata saktay hain per eik fact hai PPP SINDH MAY NAKAAAM RAHI is baat say koi bhi neutral banda inkaar nai karsakta per FEDERAL may nakami ki sari wajah ARMY and JUDICIEARY per hai ! per agaian wahee baat #chand lao ... jab lay ayeegay to kahogay bhia tum nay to solar system kharab kardiya lol bugz hai app ko janab .... :)) take care

[B][B][QUOTE=sarang ali shaikh;646931]sir sir mujay jawab ata hai, may dooon please ?

app log chahtay hai k wo chand tor k layee ... lakin bugz ki halat yeh hai k agar wo chand bhi tor k layega to kaho daikha is nay solar system kharab kardiya yeh to hai hee bura. :evil or yeh hamari puri nation ka masla hai, aisa may sochta hoo altaf hussain k baray may burger sochtay hain zardari k khilaf and so on ...so khush to kisi baat say nai hona or argument to her baat may hoga still.... [/QUOTE]



Irrelevant.


[QUOTE=sarang ali shaikh;646931] 1) kachi abadion ko regularise karkay zameenay un k hawalay [U]ki mujay sirf karachi ka pata hai interior ki no source.[/U]

2) zaroorat na honay k bawajood mqm say reconciliation hui [U][U]sindh may wajah yeh thee 10 log martay thay agar na hoti 100 log martay, strange and cruel but reality.[/U][/U]

3) [U]baqi wo koi benazir income support program type eik project tha[/U] jis may training di jati thee youth ko and zulfikarabad project ko finalise kiya, land reforms may kafi zameenay autron ko dayna ka ailan hua tha [U][SIZE="3"](don't know di ya nai) etc
[/SIZE][/U] [/QUOTE]



Are these notable achievements which you cant even explain yourself properly? Agar yeh raftar rahe tou phr [U][U]663 [/U][/U]years b kum hain kuch notable krnay keliye. :)) ( Check out your underlined points)


[QUOTE=sarang ali shaikh;646931] buhat zor day rahay thay app, boss, is liye 3 4 batay bata di is tarah 30 40 bhi bata saktay hain per eik fact hai PPP [SIZE="3"][B][U][U]SINDH MAY NAKAAAM[/U][/U][/B][/SIZE] RAHI is baat say koi bhi neutral banda inkaar nai karsakta. [/QUOTE]

Yes, An admission of ones failure is the first step towards right direction. They should mend their way in this term.



[/B][/B]

[QUOTE=Muhammad Ali Chaudhry;646855]Even Hitler was good than him . Atleast , he cared for people and he was not a fakie like him . :vangry

Pakistan's 3rd richest person , having politics and government , as a source of income.Really , it is a milestone . Our great Ex-president Mr Asif Ali Zardari's source of income shows everything . This was our money . With no industry and with no other source , he managed to get it . Salute to you Man , you marked your name as most corrupt leader in history .[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]Brother in the wave of emotions you forgot who Hitler was. Do you know how many humans he murdered brutally? Please use logic while arguing. You are comparing apples with mangoes.
If you know about his source of income and you have got all the statistics about his wealth before and after president-ship, please share with us. But please don't speak irrelevant and without any proof. :angle[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Invincible;646852][B]

I await your response, Irtika

[/B][/QUOTE]

Dear i had already told you that i was talking about his tolerance and the history he made which you can not deny.....!!!
And he was president not the CM of sindh....!! and dnt say that he cm is man that is another issue we here are talking about the achievement as a president........!!

:waitAnd for backwardness of rural sindh we all are responsible.......!!!

We cannot blame just one person for all the ills of society, and society is made of people...........!!

[B][B][QUOTE=Irtika;647085]Dear i had already told you that i was talking about his tolerance and the history he made which you can not deny.....!!!
And he was president not the CM of sindh....!! and dnt say that he cm is man that is another issue we here are talking about the achievement as a president........!!

:waitAnd for backwardness of rural sindh we all are responsible.......!!!

We cannot blame just one person for all the ills of society, and society is made of people...........!![/QUOTE]

It would be futile to discuss more because you have a very highly developed sense of denial.

Just last point: He was Captain of the ship, his job was to captain his team, his party and his government for the betterment of people-- It wasn't for just completing 5 useless years.

Regards, :))

[/B][/B]

I would like to add a little more
 

we all remember IMF, NATO, Memo, etc but we dont remember that in his tenure nation suffered from floods; causing finacial damage equal to or more than the 8 oct, earthquake.. and if not all, mostly people were rehabilitated.. to cope with such a massive catastrophe in those conditions when most figures and institutions go against you is an appreciable job..

completing and giving Gawadar port to China is another.. i am sorry i dont see any of the political figures who could do that against the will of and obligations to USA..

i wont count the IP project because i know some people here are going to name it as political stunt..

sorry for my broken sentences..

Zardari as a President !!
 

Better for the democracy.
Worst for the country.

[QUOTE=Invincible;647097][B][B]

It would be futile to discuss more because you have a very highly developed sense of denial.

Just last point: He was Captain of the ship, his job was to captain his team, his party and his government for the betterment of people-- It wasn't for just completing 5 useless years.

Regards, :))

[/B][/B][/QUOTE]

Dear you are deny from very start of this discussion you are not ready to accept that he made the hisotry :blush:

[QUOTE=Irtika;647085]Dear i had already told you that i was talking about his tolerance and the history he made which you can not deny.....!!!
[/QUOTE]
Is "Tolerance" ko in fact kuch aur kaha jata hai. Halaat kharab se kharab tar hotay jain, log achi buri her tarah ki awaz buland kertay jain, aur koi sab nazar andaz ker ke joon ka toon rahay, to sab ko pata hai aisay shakhs ko kya kaha jata hai. Isay tolerance nahi kehtay.

Yes, he has made the history, completed his tenure with zero achievement, changed the country, only for the worst.

[QUOTE=Last Island;647255]Is "Tolerance" ko in fact kuch aur kaha jata hai. Halaat kharab se kharab tar hotay jain, log achi buri her tarah ki awaz buland kertay jain, aur koi sab nazar andaz ker ke joon ka toon rahay, to sab ko pata hai aisay shakhs ko kya kaha jata hai. Isay tolerance nahi kehtay.

Yes, he has made the history, completed his tenure with zero achievement, changed the country, only for the worst.[/QUOTE]

This is too much of character assassination of your former President who came in power by the parliament you elected. ([B]Regret your choice not him[/B])

It throws a reasonable thought in solemn wonder how literate people can adopt a biased outlook in the assessment of situations and related people.

Its not about Zardari , Nawaz or Musharaf. Its about the whole culture and ideology operating at the back of our rulers. Its therefore no wise to discuss persons discuss the common mindset that includes Power politics. Dynastic parties. culture of corruption and nepotism, self love, extremism, monopoly and what not ?
" [B]People get leaders of their match [/B] " perhaps this is the case with our society.
Its not zardari.. Peep inside your possible capacity and give an honest judgment to your role ? are you not zardari by yourself ?
My point is.. we need to mold the overall national character into a standardized shape.

[QUOTE=pureapak;647268]This is too much of character assassination of your former President who came in power by the parliament you elected. ([B]Regret your choice not him[/B])

It throws a reasonable thought in solemn wonder how literate people can adopt a biased outlook in the assessment of situations and related people.

Its not about Zardari , Nawaz or Musharaf. Its about the whole culture and ideology operating at the back of our rulers. Its therefore no wise to discuss persons discuss the common mindset that includes Power politics. Dynastic parties. culture of corruption and nepotism, self love, extremism, monopoly and what not ?
" [B]People get leaders of their match [/B] " perhaps this is the case with our society.
Its not zardari.. Peep inside your possible capacity and give an honest judgment to your role ? are you not zardari by yourself ?
My point is.. we need to mold the overall national character into a standardized shape.[/QUOTE]

Sir , really i cannot understand that these were emotional comments or serious replies , because there were more questions in it as compared to the main point .

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="4"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Eligibility of Zardari as a President :[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] Now , lets come to the point . According to article 43 (1) , Asif Ali Zardari was never eligible for becoming a president . So , it was not mine or your fault that he became our National Head . Here is 43 (1) :

43. Conditions of President’s office.-(1) The President shall not hold any office of profit in the service of Pakistan or occupy any other position carrying the right to remuneration for the rendering of services.

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Blue"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Our Culture , Ideology and selection of Politicians (not leaders) :[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] This thing is good that People select their representatives but all of us know that it is a reality that more than 60 percent of the votes are being casted by illetrate people .Here people sell their votes for money like 100 ,500 etc . So , again it is not our fault . But , what we are doing right now is our responsibilty as a Pakistani , that is criticising our ex-president . It was our right to critcize his wrong acts and still it is If we will not do this , we can say that we are like our leaders .I remeber Winston's Churchill saying “The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” If we talk moreabout our culture and ideologies then British India Company was true in assessing that People of Subcontinent were not ready to take Democracy as a form of government .

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Blue"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Was Asif Ali Zardari really a Democratic President :[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] Now , Asif Ali Zardari , as people are saying that , was a democratic President and Democracy flourished in his term . So , Demoracy is not just passing of bills , completing tenure by Politics . The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. It arises out of the notion that those who are equal in any respect are equal in all respects; because men are equally free, they claim to be absolutely equal. In democracy the poor will have more power than rich . So , we are not being treated on equality principles , if my vote was ignored then i can project my views against system . Inshort , them democracy about which Asif Ali Zardari worked for , was not that majority of the people of Pakistan wanted . Basic needs , employment , improvement in economic sphere , and law and order situation (which was actually the slogan of Zardari when he was contesting for presidential elections ) , these are the things that common people wanted . Here Asif Ali Zardari's rule ( i say it as a rule not tenure ) , fit into this saying of Plato " Democracy passes into despotism" .


[SIZE="4"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Asif Ali Zardari's achievemnt : A good politician ? :[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]By the way , President of Pakistan and his achievement was that he was a good political leader . This whole judgement sounds crap as President has nothing to do with politics according to our constitution .

[SIZE="4"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Coclusion :[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] We need to mold overall national character into a standard shape beacuse it is enough now , we cannot remain silent or we cannot blame ourselves all the time that we elected them . If we elected them , then we still hae the authority to put them down . These point has got some attraction and are true . So , lets do it right now . And at the end it is an honest judgement " People of Pakistan are far much better than Zardari . Good and bad people are are the essence of every society . It is a universal law and it cannot be changed .

[COLOR="DarkOrange"][B]Infact it was not our choice but we have regretted alot , now , it is a time to speak truth , atleast to compensate everything that we have lost till now .[/B] [/COLOR]

Regards :) .

[B][B][QUOTE=noOne;647122]we all remember IMF, NATO, Memo, etc but we dont remember that in his tenure nation suffered from floods; causing finacial damage equal to or more than the 8 oct, earthquake.. and if not all, mostly people were rehabilitated.. to cope with such a massive catastrophe in those conditions when most figures and institutions go against you is an appreciable job. [/QUOTE]

He was seen in front of the 10 downing street during the Floods. Millions of people have been suffering till date who lost their livelihoods and belongings in that Calamity, dude.

[QUOTE=noOne;647122] completing and giving Gawadar port to China is another.. i am sorry i dont see any of the political figures who could do that against the will of and obligations to USA..
[/QUOTE]

Good initiative

[QUOTE=pureapak;647268]This is too much of character assassination of your former President who came in power by the parliament you elected. ([B]Regret your choice not him[/B])

It throws a reasonable thought in solemn wonder how literate people can adopt a biased outlook in the assessment of situations and related people.

Its not about Zardari , Nawaz or Musharaf. Its about the whole culture and ideology operating at the back of our rulers. Its therefore no wise to discuss persons discuss the common mindset that includes Power politics. Dynastic parties. culture of corruption and nepotism, self love, extremism, monopoly and what not ?
" [B]People get leaders of their match [/B] " perhaps this is the case with our society.
Its not zardari.. Peep inside your possible capacity and give an honest judgment to your role ? are you not zardari by yourself ?
My point is.. we need to mold the overall national character into a standardized shape.[/QUOTE]

No one is sullying Mr Zardari's Image. We are posing a simple question which requires answer without Ifs & Buts.

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="black"][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Q: What has transpired in the country under his watch?[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]


[/B][/B]

[COLOR="blue"][SIZE="3"][B]Well it is the dilemma that we things from a biased perspective which is wrong. A prudent person analyzes things as they are and as they should be not as they are according to his point of view, let us analyze that issue neutrally.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"][B]Miss Sabahtbhutta said that Asif Zardari showed patience during his term and has shown farsightedness in that regard[/B][/SIZE].[/COLOR]

[COLOR="blue"][SIZE="3"][B]He had any other choice mam? Being a country where PM is the spearhead of everything, the role of president is of no importance, he is mere a figurehead of the state and performs ceremonial functions only, he could not play his game in open arena because the house he was living in was made of glass, and if he had thrown stones at others, he would have broken his own house. so his patience was more a compulsion then a policy.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="blue"][SIZE="3"][B]Zardari sb as the chairman of the ruling party has been a great player, I must say that his role as a political leader could not come to limelight but he made it possible the first democratic transition of the history, and he has been taming the beast "The GHQ Lions" and whenever he saw the omens of something bad, he came to negotiations, like he did at Tahir ul Qadri's long March. His party's govt made a history of mismanagement and bad governance yet he managed to keep the Army in nonchalant state. His party did not leave any stone unturned to break and create the records of corruption and every event that had caused the military coup in the past, took place in his govt yet Army stayed calm. That's indeed a great achievement. This is not sarcasm, for the record ;)[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="blue"][SIZE="3"][B]As the chairman of ruling party, he could have done something to stymie the Corruption that caused the ruins of PIA, Railways, Steel Mills and other National assets, but he did nothing for that and took his due share in the plunder. I agree with Invincible that he was able to do something about that but alas! he did not.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]I must say that no politician in this country is candid to the masses and altruist, but Zardari sb did not do anything for his own people as well, he could not do anything for the amelioration in the condition of those poor Sindhis who revere him, I was seeing a person prostrating before the portrait of BB, very ridiculous yet it shows that how much people revere them, at least he should have done something about them.

So appologies to his fans, I see no history he has made except that he kept the Army in calm despite limitless corrpution, mismanagement and bad governance and his party's govt did everything that caused the military coups in the past yet managed to evade the consequences the past governments had to see.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"][SIZE="3"][B]His real image would come to limelight now when he has stepped down from President house, as he himself said "Now I am free from every shackle, I will do the things I could not do"[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Bilal Hassan;647413][COLOR="blue"][SIZE="3"][B]Well it is the dilemma that we things from a biased perspective which is wrong. A prudent person analyzes things as they are and as they should be not as they are according to his point of view, let us analyze that issue neutrally.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"][B]Miss Sabahtbhutta said that Asif Zardari showed patience during his term and has shown farsightedness in that regard[/B][/SIZE].[/COLOR]

[COLOR="blue"][SIZE="3"][B]He had any other choice mam? Being a country where PM is the spearhead of everything, the role of president is of no importance, he is mere a figurehead of the state and performs ceremonial functions only, he could not play his game in open arena because the house he was living in was made of glass, and if he had thrown stones at others, he would have broken his own house. so his patience was more a compulsion then a policy.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]Yes Indeed, we need to analyse the issue neutrally.

And I think we are not forgetting that patience was not his compulsion but choice. Zardari sb made history by giving back his powers to the parliament. If he had not he would not have been a ceremonial head rather a powerful ruler. I don't think you are biased enough to deny this. :)[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Bilal Hassan;647413][I][/I]

[COLOR="Green"][SIZE="3"][B]His real image would come to limelight now when he has stepped down from President house, as he himself said "Now I am free from every shackle, I will do the things I could not do"[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]Yes looking forward to it. And he has also given us a hint of his future endeavours by stating that [B]He will cooperate with Main sb to complete his five years whatever come may.[/B][/SIZE]

[QUOTE=alihashmatkhoso;646552][B][/B]

[B][COLOR="DarkGreen"][I]dear i think previous govt paved way for newly born govt, now nawz has to prove that he is also a patriot, but i don't think so he is, on the score of his performance of last three months, he has proved that he did not learn from history, and his politics of revenge is going on, give credit where credit is due ......[/I][/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

Are you trying to say that Mr. Zardari is a patriot? This is quite satiric I am sorry to say. Would you please share the part played by PPP's government in "paving way" other than a semi peaceful transfer of government? What road has been paved for energy crisis and terrorism, the major of all issues to which every other problem is linked? I think I have missed something.

On one hand it is believed that previous to previous government messed up the situation, then PPP's role is almost skipped and people jump over to Nawaz Government for showing up something in 3 months. You guys should agree that Zardari's government also could not do anything for the major problems the country was clawed in, for whole five years.

[QUOTE=sabahatbhutta;647745][SIZE="3"]Yes Indeed, we need to analyse the issue neutrally.

And I think we are not forgetting that patience was not his compulsion but choice. Zardari sb made history by giving back his powers to the parliament. If he had not he would not have been a ceremonial head rather a powerful ruler. I don't think you are biased enough to deny this. :)[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]Agreeing to the point that he gave up his powers and chose to be a ceremonial head of state, his patience was certainly a compulsion not his choice or policy dear sister :). Let me tell you how, He could not have kept those powers in his own personality because he was alone and on the other hand was the elected parliament and he had no other choice but to give up his powers and after being a ceremonial head of the state, he was considered to be neutral and representative of all four provinces. [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"][B]He could not have remained a powerful President dear, do not make a mistake by comparing Zardari with powerful president Musaharraf, because the latter had the support of mighty army on his back, tell me that after his retirement from army, how many days he survived as a president? All powerful presidents in the political history of Pakistan have been Army generals, be it Musharraf, Ayub Khan, Zia ul Haq or Yahya Khan.....Not a single powerful president has been a civilian. So Zardari sb could not remain a powerful president dear, he had to give up his powers and after that patience was his compulsion than a policy. Hope you got the Logic :)
[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[QUOTE=sabahatbhutta;647745][SIZE="3"]Yes looking forward to it. And he has also given us a hint of his future endeavours by stating that [B]He will cooperate with Main sb to complete his five years whatever come may.[/B][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]That would be a great thing then, but again it is his compulsion dear, Mian sb had given them no trouble so they have a moral and political obligation to return the favor. Whatever the reason, that would indeed be a great thing, I hope now we are on the way to be a democratic state, our values are strengthening and our politicians are also getting mature. Fingers crossed for good things to happen.

P.S: I lament at some people who while analyzing Zardari, embroil NAwaz Sharif in the discussion. What is then logic behind comparing Zardari with Nawaz Sharif? I think people had given them vote, not a magic stick so that in three months we must expect miracles, being very neutral I must say one ought not vilify some other person while defending one.
[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Invincible;647350][B][B]

He was seen in front of the 10 downing street during the Floods. Millions of people have been suffering till date who lost their livelihoods and belongings in that Calamity, dude.



Good initiative



No one is sullying Mr Zardari's Image. We are posing a simple question which requires answer without Ifs & Buts.

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="black"][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Q: What has transpired in the country under his watch?[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]


[/B][/B][/QUOTE]

My question is the same? Same huge accumulations of debts, corruption, national security issues, and not an inch change in energy related problems. People here are ignoring all this when talking about Mr. Zardari and on the same place they are scrutinizing Nawaz Government for the above problems. Mr. Zardari is being judged on other grounds and Nawaz on others, which is quite unfair.

[QUOTE=Bilal Hassan;647750][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]Agreeing to the point that he gave up his powers and chose to be a ceremonial head of state, his patience was certainly a compulsion not his choice or policy dear sister :). Let me tell you how, He could not have kept those powers in his own personality because he was alone and on the other hand was the elected parliament and he had no other choice but to give up his powers and after being a ceremonial head of the state, he was considered to be neutral and representative of all four provinces. [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"][B]He could not have remained a powerful President dear, do not make a mistake by comparing Zardari with powerful president Musaharraf, because the latter had the support of mighty army on his back, tell me that after his retirement from army, how many days he survived as a president? All powerful presidents in the political history of Pakistan have been Army generals, be it Musharraf, Ayub Khan, Zia ul Haq or Yahya Khan.....[COLOR="Purple"][SIZE="4"]Not a single powerful president has been a civilian. [/SIZE][/COLOR]So Zardari sb could not remain a powerful president dear, he had to give up his powers and after that patience was his compulsion than a policy. Hope you got the Logic :)
[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]That would be a great thing then, but again it is his compulsion dear, Mian sb had given them no trouble so they have a moral and political obligation to return the favor. Whatever the reason, that would indeed be a great thing, I hope now we are on the way to be a democratic state, our values are strengthening and our politicians are also getting mature. Fingers crossed for good things to happen.

P.S: [COLOR="purple"][COLOR="purple"][SIZE="4"]I lament at some people who while analyzing Zardari, embroil NAwaz Sharif in the discussion. [/SIZE][/COLOR][/COLOR]What is then logic behind comparing Zardari with Nawaz Sharif? I think people had given them vote, not a magic stick so that in three months we must expect miracles, being very neutral I must say one ought not vilify some other person while defending one.
[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]Mr. Bhutto had been the Civilian president who was powerful at the same time. Although for shorter period but unfortunately he was hanged when he was a PM. Our history is full of such incidents in which a person when handed over his powers, got punished for it. It was indeed commendable on his part to show bravery. It was not a compulsion on him but he did, keeping in mind his responsibility, which is appreciable.

I agree comparison of two politicians with distant traits is unfair. Both possess significant and distinct places.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=sabahatbhutta;647957][SIZE="3"]Mr. Bhutto had been the Civilian president who was powerful at the same time. Although for shorter period but unfortunately he was hanged when he was a PM. Our history is full of such incidents in which a person when handed over his powers, got punished for it. It was indeed commendable on his part to show bravery. It was not a compulsion on him but he did, keeping in mind his responsibility, which is appreciable.

I agree comparison of two politicians with distant traits is unfair. Both possess significant and distinct places.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]Mr Bhutto, a rare exception, but you forgot one thing, he was a civilian president but under a constitution which was framed by an Army President i-e Ayub Khan, and he could not continue being a strong civilian president because he was a civilian, and he had to go back to being a prime minister. Dear this is very evident that in this country a president cannot remain a powerful entity unless he is a serving army man.

Zardari sb could not keep his powers with himself and had no choice but give up them to the parliament as a civilian president he could not remain powerful in a parliamentary democracy.

He was the representative of all four provinces so he had no choice but being neutral, he could not play his role being a partisan, so his silence was a compulsion than a choice.

I won't credit him for a democratic shift as well, this democratic transition must be credited to the PML (N) which played its role as oppostion in strengthening democracy, and equally great role is played by the Army, which tolerated everything that caused the coups before.

So no really a great achievement or history was made by MR Zardari, yes perhaps they made a history of bad governance, mismanagement and corruption as well as nepotism.

P.S: I do not take into account the inflation or any other thing in their bad performance because mostly that was out of their control, the inflation is determined by a proper market mechanism, so I am not considering any economic or development parameter in that regard. BUT they are responsible for corruption, they could have stymied that menace, they could have done something about the Railways, PIA and steel mills but they let the situation exacerbate, at least they must have shown some willingness in that regard. I conclude here with these remarks. Apologies to the PPP fans or any other well wisher of Ex President Zardari.

Stay Blessed.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Bilal Hassan;648293][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]Mr Bhutto, a rare exception, but you forgot one thing, he was a civilian president but under a constitution which was framed by an Army President i-e Ayub Khan, and he could not continue being a strong civilian president because he was a civilian, and he had to go back to being a prime minister. Dear this is very evident that in this country a president cannot remain a powerful entity unless he is a serving army man.

Zardari sb could not keep his powers with himself and had no choice but give up them to the parliament as a civilian president he could not remain powerful in a parliamentary democracy.

He was the representative of all four provinces so he had no choice but being neutral, he could not play his role being a partisan, so his silence was a compulsion than a choice.

I won't credit him for a democratic shift as well, this democratic transition must be credited to the PML (N) which played its role as oppostion in strengthening democracy, and equally great role is played by the Army, which tolerated everything that caused the coups before.

So no really a great achievement or history was made by MR Zardari, yes perhaps they made a history of bad governance, mismanagement and corruption as well as nepotism.

P.S: I do not take into account the inflation or any other thing in their bad performance because mostly that was out of their control, the inflation is determined by a proper market mechanism, so I am not considering any economic or development parameter in that regard. BUT they are responsible for corruption, they could have stymied that menace, they could have done something about the Railways, PIA and steel mills but they let the situation exacerbate, at least they must have shown some willingness in that regard. I conclude here with these remarks. Apologies to the PPP fans or any other well wisher of Ex President Zardari.

Stay Blessed.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]yes I can understand why you are persistently denying the facts. :)
Here we are talking about the performance of the first ever democratic president who has completed his tenure democratically and respectably. You are dragging the debate to governance issue which is beyond the mandate of President according to the Constitution of Pakistan. So, I end this debate here. :) [/SIZE]