Originally Posted by rage

Originally Posted by rage

@JazibRoomi
No one can deny the Islam's permission for polygamy but the need is to take it with all of its obligations as well.

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

Polygamy "was" [read: is] permitted by Islam and that too was under very special circumstances.

Originally Posted by JazibRoomi

If I get a chance, I would definitely work to include monogamy in our family law.

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

@ jazibRoomi:
Recently we watched on the TV, a guy from Sialkoat marrying two girls, both his cousins. They were invited to a talkshow and the wives seemed happy and said again and again that they had no issue sharing one husband etc.

Let me tell you an incident I heard from a pakistani girl working as a judge in UAE:
She went into a bank. There she happened to interact with a well-to-do, good looking affluent arab woman. They sat down, talked about this and that, socialized in a friendly way. After sometime the jolly arab woman asked the girl: You are so sweet and I like you a lot. Why don't you marry my husband and we will live like a family together and all?
Well, the girl was surprised to hear that.

In the above live example, both are women and both possessing two different psyches. What was a sweet prospect for one, was almost shocking for the other.

At the end its all about mentality, perceptions and understanding. Social norms, culture, environment, awareness play vital roles in defining the eventual psychology of the human mind. A kid raised in Africa won't share the values espoused by an American kid. Both will be different in their approaches towards life.
When something negative becomes a part of culture, we stop noticing its thrust and with the passage of time seem to accept it without objection and later it becomes a part of the morality of the next generation. Morality itself is taught. We believe God is one because we are taught that way. We haven't seen God, still we believe HE is there all the time. A kid born to idolatrous parents will find no fault with worshipping mere statues all his life because he is taught that way and its a part of his morality to do so.
A persistant belief about the existence of something when its not there is termed as DELUSION in Psychiatry; its to be corrected with anti-psychotic drugs. But a persistent belief in the existence of God, angels and Heaven and Hell is considered Emaan in religion.
I hope you understand the difference!

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

Rage! If you are of the view that Quranic instructions are for all and sundry and diversity of thought should not be a matter then why don't you accept polygamy with an open heart? If women in Africa, Arabia and India can live with it why shouldn't you? Because the Quranic verses are for all and sundry and no exceptions right?

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

So you should have no problem if a husband loves one wife from the core of his heart. That does not make him a sinner because Allah Almighty has allowed it and as you said HE is the creator of you women and if HE allowed polygamy then HE knows very well what women deserve.

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

As far as polygamous men are concerned, whether they fulfill their rights and obligations or not, is a matter with Allah and for HIM to decide in the life hereafter. But for life over here, HE has allowed polygamy in clear and transparent words. Bear it! Your creator knows what you don't about yourself.
Islam is the same for the whole world. Then why a woman in UAE considers polygamy as an opportunity and why are you raising questions against it? Islam is same for you both, where lies the difference then?

Originally Posted by rainy...

i am afraid that debate is getting personal....

Originally Posted by rainy

Firstly @rage

I am smelling bit of bias in your statement. Man is not the only one to be blamed here. Its the society that needs to be blamed for this attitude. Don't forget women are also part of this society and participated their level best in this male dominating thinking.

Here is a great need to differentiate between two things Islam and society. Islam has provided us all the prerequisites for a healthy society. We as part of society pic things of our interest(including men and women). Same is with the case of polygamy and you have very rightly summed up in other posts.

Originally Posted by rainy

I want to add something, quranic verses ARE for all and sundry now if somebody in America or India or Arabia follows or somebody in Malaysia doesn't its an issue of perception, brought up, environment etc. You must be knowing there are many things in our constitution but we dont follow. Does that nullify the constitution??? Islamic rulings are part of our constitution and its for all and its part of our emaan.

Originally Posted by Witchdoctor

THAT THE WORDS OF GOD ARE SAME BUT THEIR INTERPRETATIONS COULD BE DIFFERENT. Even the translations of Quran by the great scholars like Yusuf Ali, pickthal and Shakir are slightly different from each other. Each scholar gave the translation according to his own knowledge of the Arabic and English language, understanding, perception and imagination and intention. For example let's study the translation of the following simple verse from Surah Fatiha about Siraat-e-Mustaqeem:
001.006
YUSUFALI: Show us the straight
way,
PICKTHAL: Show us the straight
path,
SHAKIR: Keep us on the right path.
Now you can see the difference in words. And ladies and gentlemen different words mean different meanings, different perceptions and so on. The first two translators are asking God to show us the straight path/way while the 3rd translator is asking God to keep us on the right path (implying that as if we already are on the right path being born as Muslims MashAllah!).
Let me elucidate further. Synonymous words carry different connotations. WAY is never the same as PATH, and STRAIGHT could never be what RIGHT could be. WAY could be an attitude, a habit, a flaw as in this sentence where a father admonishingly shouts at his impudent son: MEND YOUR WAYS! YOU MORON.
A lover would say about his beloved: she has sweet ways.
If a css aspirant in islamabad asks his teacher to show him the STRAIGHT WAY to CSA then a wise teacher is supposed to reply like this: There are two ways leading to CSA: One way is to get books, guidance, tips and tricks, work hard and get through CE examination and that way get into CSA. Another way is to straightaway fill your car's fuel tank or buy yourself a Daewoo ticket to lahore and travel all the way on the motorway, reach lahore, find Walton Road and reach CSA.
There is a hell of a difference between the two ways mentioned above.
Now come to STRAIGHT and RIGHT. Both words are synonymous but their shades of meaning widely differ. A RIGHT path could be straight but a STRAIGHT path is not necessarily RIGHT. As a matter of fact the right path, the path of God Almighty is mostly twisted, tortuous, difficult (as its said that practising Taqwa is like walking barefoot on a thorny path). While a straight path implies the shortest route-- as the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. The path to Almighty is never short or easy or plain rather it takes courage, will, determination, sacrifice, compassion to walk that path. if it were an easy path, everybody would be treading it.
All the 3 translations, interpretations of the given verse by the most honorable of scholars are cent per cent correct but the translation of Shakir is "more appropriate" because he used the word RIGHT instead of STRAIGHT, and the word RIGHT carries moral connotations while the word STRAIGHT is more used in symmetrical, dimensional and directional senses. Right direction and not straight direction may lead us to our destination.
To substantiate my logic let's focus on the word MUSTAQEEM. I don't know a word of Arabic but it sounds to me that the word Mustaqeem is somehow related to the words Mustaqil, Mutaqi, Taqwa. Yeah got it! Taqwa must be the central theme of the verse(it indeed is). So my dear the foundation of Taqwa is always righteousness(derived from RIGHT).
Having read and hopefully understood the above discourse, its evident that our knowledge of language, our perceptions, our understanding, our observation, our intention and determination play pivotal roles in constructing our psychological attitudes and make us what we are, how we think, how we believe, how we act. (Positive)
So the words of God are the same for all and sundry (Rage's assertion) but all and sundry are not the same for God (my observation). There are pious and saints and there are rapists and killers. Why the difference when the words of God are the same for all and sundry? Don't ask why now, I have given you the RIGHT answer.