[QUOTE=Adamant;870162]1 but why pakistan was in talk with russia to buy su 35 if jf17 has such features...(the same janes.com wikipedia and sputnik.com had qouted ) 2 why they said we need twin engine stealth fighter like su 35 that can penetrate deeper into enemys territory[/QUOTE]

Even with all the goodies that JF-17 has its role is that of a multi role fighter. It will be the backbone of PAF just like F-16s are the backbone of USAF. In their case, F-16 is the multi role and F-22 is the air superiority fighter. In our case, our F-16 Block 52 is the air superiority fighter and JF-17 the multi role fighter.

Ask yourself the question; why does the US need F-35 when they had F-22? Isn't that superior? Why is it that even after the development of F-35, majority of their air force will still be using F-16s?

Answer: Money, tactics & strategy. Read this, its very important: [URL="http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0216.shtml"]F-22, F-35 & the Hi-Lo Mix [/URL]

Why we looked into Su-35? Because:

1. We need a plane which can not only counter but dominate rafale when it arrives in India. A true air superiority fighter, better than F-16 block 52 because rafale is. Its very very good, 2nd only to F-22 even, as some would argue.

2. To protect CPEC sea lines a plane with longer endurance than JF-17 & F-16 is required. It doesn't have to be twin engined but needs longer endurance and heavy payload capability which the current JF-17 engine cannot handle.

[QUOTE]4 why pakistan is in talks with china to buy j31 if we can convert jf into 5th generation stealth fighter [/QUOTE]

JF-17 was never meant to be a stealth fighter and it will never be converted to be one. The design changings that it would require would be too much and it would be easier to create a new design altogether.

However, that doesn't meant that we wouldn't try to reduce its RCS as much as we can through the use of RAM coating and things like DSI intake etc. The lower your RCS is, the better.


[QUOTE]5 is jf is an airsuperiority fighter [/QUOTE]
It is not. As I said, its a multi role fighter. We use F-16 Block 52 as our air superiority fighter.

[QUOTE]6 why does china not use it[/QUOTE]
China's requirements are different. They have J-10 for their needs which has a longer range and payload. They have a big country and a even bigger coast line to defend which requires more endurance.

[QUOTE] 6 why cant we make it a carrier supported aircraft [/QUOTE]

We might be able to do it if we wanted to but we don't have an air craft carrier and we don't need it for now so the question doesn't arise. That would be like wasting our resources, billions and billions of dollars. Instead what we need are nuclear powered submarines for 2nd strike capability. That's where the money needs to go on the naval side.

[QUOTE]7 why cant we make it into twin engine thrust vectoring fighter so that no more cost on further import[/QUOTE]
I don't understand what you're trying to say but we cannot make it a twin engine aircraft because that would require too much design changing. An easier thing would be to create a new twin engine fighter design. Ask yourself the question; why doesnt US change F-16 into a twin engine fighter? Because there's no need for it. Same is the case with us.

[QUOTE]8 why should we export it does american share or sale f 22 technology even India isn't exporting its su 30mki technology[/QUOTE]
There's a huge market for cheaper modern planes in African, Asian and South American countries which can earn us a lot of money. That's why we need to export it. Even the US is exporting F-35. Reason is money. But don't worry, no sensitive technology will be exported. An export version of a fighter jet is always a bit watered down than the original.

Su30MKI is not Indian technology. They are just assembling it in India with parts provided by Russia. They cannot export it because its not their product to sell, its Russia's. And Russia has sold Su30s to multiple countries like Indonesia and China for example.


[QUOTE]9 why we require j10 if we have jf 17 already[/QUOTE]

We're not going to buy J-10. JF-17 has turned out to be more capable than we had hoped for and has eliminated the need for J-10 for now. There is however a need for a longer endurance aircraft for the protection of CPEC sea lines. That's why we may look into J-11 or Su-35 but probably politics and our money situation won't allow us to buy them. We'll just wait for TFX or F31 to mature.

1st russia denied to give su 35 2 u say jf is not air superiority fighter it is multirole no thrust vectoring not much fuel capacity 3 why cant we make or convert it into multirole air superiorty fighter like su 30mki 4 would we look for fighter like su 35 if cpec coast lines in danger again there is no time to look here and there even iran itself making its own fgfa u should admit that jf 17 should be somewhere lacking thats why we were looking for su 35..if early we could develop it into a perfect air superiorty multirole fighter we should work on it now..WHO SAID WE ARENOT BUYING J10 I HADNOT SEEN IT ANYWHERE and last which idiot said that spending money on aircraft carrier is wastage of money...as a layman i know it would reduce fuel comsumption..carrying arming and recovering the aircraft millions and billions for corrupt bureaucrats and politicians not for a carrier...there shouldnt be any compromise over defense.. As it is a wall of country

And u said that why america need f35 because they are looking to replace aging fleet of f 16 f18 f 15 old versions ...and yes I accept my mistake of calling j 17 is an inferior fighter BUT it is not a perfect fighter as it should be..I presented my opinion u agree or not I don't care .I dream to see this powerful undaunted and. undisputed country from Jammu and Kashmir to Karachi and from baltistan to Baluchistan....even dream of complete country with powerful Islamic airforce army and navy delight me lot..

Dude first of all, you need to learn to make paragraphs because its very hard and annoying to read a wall of text.

[QUOTE=Adamant;870281]1st russia denied to give su 35[/QUOTE]
I know.
[QUOTE]2 u say jf is not air superiority fighter it is multirole no thrust vectoring not much fuel capacity [/QUOTE]
I didn't say not much fuel capacity, I said there are better ones out there.

And only Russia and US has thrust vectoring technology. Do you know how much money it costs to build a technology from scratch? F-35 development cost was $60 billion for the US which already had almost all of the industrial base for development. Imagine what it would cost us to try to develop something similar. Besides, thrust vectoring isn't even that important. These days you have HMDs with 5th generation high off-boresight capable WVR missiles to take care of super maneuverable aircraft. And that JF-17 is going to get in block 3. India doesn't have any. Even F-22 doesn't have that. End of story.

[I]HMD systems, combined with High Off-Boresight (HOBS) weapons, results in the ability for aircrew to attack and destroy nearly any target seen by the pilot. These systems allow targets to be designated with minimal aircraft maneuvering, minimizing the time spent in the threat environment, and allowing greater lethality, survivability, and pilot situational awareness.[/I]

Read further, its important: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet-mounted_display[/url]

[QUOTE]3 why cant we make or convert it into multirole air superiorty fighter like su 30mki [/QUOTE]

Conversion is not feasible, economically and otherwise. We have other much cheaper and feasible options for air superiority fighter like F31 & TFX, when they mature.

[QUOTE]4 would we look for fighter like su 35 if cpec coast lines in danger again there is no time to look here and there even iran itself making its own fgfa u should admit that jf 17 should be somewhere lacking thats why we were looking for su 35..if early we could develop it into a perfect air superiorty multirole fighter we should work on it now..[/QUOTE]
Dude first of all, CPEC is going to take a few years to complete. Even Gwadar isn't properly operational yet. We have all the time in the world. No need to panic. We'll wait and consider our options.

2nd, Iran isn't making sh*t. All they have are old F-4 copies with the most obsolete design and avionics ever. Forget air superiority, if they make something air worthy that would be a surprise. Bluffing is the name of their game.

3rd, did you even read the link that I posted? There's no point to this discussion if you're not reading. Hi Lo Mix and why its important, read: [url]http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0216.shtml[/url]

JF-17 has its own role, and its the bl**dy best in it. F-16 block 52 has its own role and its great at it. But rafale is coming to town and it needs to be countered by a better air superiority fighter. That's why we considered Su-35. It didn't pan out but rafale isn't coming for a few more years so we'll wait for TXF or F31 now, most probably.

[QUOTE]WHO SAID WE ARENOT BUYING J10 I HADNOT SEEN IT ANYWHERE [/QUOTE]
Remind me of this when J-10 lands in Pakistan.

Hint: It never will. JF-17 took care of that. It doesn't suite our requirements anymore. It cannot dominate rafale or give the same level of protection to CPEC that Su-35 could due to its longer range and payload. We have limited amount of money so we're going to wait for F31 or TXF for that.


[QUOTE]and last which idiot said that spending money on aircraft carrier is wastage of money...as a layman i know it would reduce fuel comsumption..carrying arming and recovering the aircraft millions and billions for corrupt bureaucrats and politicians not for a carrier...there shouldnt be any compromise over defense.. As it is a wall of country[/QUOTE]
Calm down. Even China doesn't have an operational aircraft carrier yet. Its takes time and money to develop technologies for it, huge amount of money.
Where is that going to come from? Your pocket? A Nimitz class carrier costs about $5 billion to build. Imagine what its development cost would be. F-35C costs $337 million per unit and its development cost was $60 billion. Do that math yourself for an aircraft carrier whose unit cost is $5 billion. And I'm not mentioning servicing and operational costs yet even though they are more than the building cost over the years.

Just for your info, Pakistan entire budget's revenue in 2011 was $26.7 Billion.

2nd, we don't need it. What are we going to do with?

As I said, what we need are SSNs for 2nd strike capability. Money is going into that because its required.

[QUOTE=Adamant;870288]And u said that why america need f35 because they are looking to replace aging fleet of f 16 f18 f 15 old versions ...and yes I accept my mistake of calling j 17 is an inferior fighter BUT it is not a perfect fighter as it should be..I presented my opinion u agree or not I don't care .I dream to see this powerful undaunted and. undisputed country from Jammu and Kashmir to Karachi and from baltistan to Baluchistan....even dream of complete country with powerful Islamic airforce army and navy delight me lot..[/QUOTE]
Dude, I don't give a damn about your thoughts as well if you're wondering. I'm just here to set the record straight because you were spreading nonsense against JF-17.

And if you had bothered to read what I had posted then you would have known that I asked you the question as to why even the US is not going to replace all its F-16s, F-15s and F-18s with F-35s. The answer to that is because its too expensive even for the US to do that. F-16s & F-15s etc are going to continue to be the backbone of USAF for the foreseeable future and you expect Pakistan to somehow produce some magical perfect 5th generation aircraft which will replace all older aircrafts?

[url]https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sequester-may-force-usaf-to-retire-entire-fleets-of-aircraft-390668/[/url]

[url]http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/show-daily/afa/2015/09/15/boeing-positions-f-15-as-f-22-supplement/72316414/[/url]

[url]http://aviationweek.com/defense/usaf-plans-76-billion-electronic-makeover-f-15s[/url]

3rd, there is no such thing as a perfect fighter. Even the F-22 has been shot down many times in exercises by Typhons, Growlers, Rafales and even F-16s etc.

[url]http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2014/09/23/when_the_french_shot_down_an_f-22_107455.html[/url]

[url]http://theaviationist.com/2013/06/19/f-22-shot-down-by-rafale/[/url]

[url]http://www.wired.com/2012/07/f-22-germans/[/url]

Check out on internet photos of j 10,in Pakistan flag then talk shame for j17 and makers of it...f 35 will replace aging fleet of f16 f18 and f15 check stats of f 35 on wiki...don't place j 17 on moon keep it in sky..HAD J 17 DEVELOPED INTO BETTER AIRCRAFT..THERE WAS NO NEED TO SEE FOR SU 35 OR J 10 NO NEED FOR THAT...BUT EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY THINKS HE IS RIGHT..THATS WHY ARGUEMENT BECAME TUSSELE .AS YOU ARE PRESENTING GOOD FOR NOTHING REASON..YES FOR THE SAKE OF COUNTRY I WOULD LOVE TO SPEND EVEN FROM MY POCKET...IF SOMEWHERE I WOULD BE ABLE TO...I WOULD AGAIN SAY I PRESENTED NOT BETTER BUT BEST.I HAD RIGHT TO PRESENT MY OPINION..I LOVE TO WORK FOR COUNTRY NOT FOR THE PEOPLE OF COUNTRY ..


NO ONE. NO ONE WOULD GONNA AGREE

Qaheer f 313 is an iranian FGFA PROJECT STARTED IN 2013 2 Check out on internet photos of j 10,in Pakistan flag then talk shame for j17 and makers of it...f 35 will replace aging fleet of f16 f18 and f15 check stats of f 35 on wiki...don't place j 17 on moon keep it in sky..HAD J 17 DEVELOPED INTO BETTER AIRCRAFT..THERE WAS NO NEED TO SEE FOR SU 35 OR J 10 NO NEED FOR THAT IF OUR DEFENCE BUDGET DOESNT ALLOW US .....SUPPOSE IF THERE ARE SURGICAL STRIKES OR ENEMYS FIGHTER TO DAMAGE NATIONAL ASSET LIKE CPEC WOULD WE LOOKING HERE AND THERE WOULD J 17 COUNTER SU 30 OR DEASSULT RAFAEL ..WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE OF J 17 IF THERE IS ANY MULTIROLE AIRSUPERIORTY FIGHTER IN OUR HANGER BUT EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY THINKS HE IS RIGHT..THATS WHY ARGUEMENT BECAME TUSSELE .AS YOU ARE PRESENTING GOOD FOR NOTHING REASON..YES FOR THE SAKE OF COUNTRY I WOULD LOVE TO SPEND EVEN FROM MY POCKET...IF SOMEWHERE I WOULD BE ABLE TO...I WOULD AGAIN SAY I PRESENTED NOT BETTER BUT BEST.I HAD RIGHT TO PRESENT MY OPINION..I LOVE TO WORK FOR COUNTRY NOT FOR THE PEOPLE OF COUNTRY ..


NO ONE. NO ONE WOULD GONNA AGREE[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Adamant;870327]Check out on internet photos of j 10,in Pakistan flag then talk shame for j17 and makers of it...f 35 will replace aging fleet of f16 f18 and f15 check stats of f 35 on wiki...don't place j 17 on moon keep it in sky..HAD J 17 DEVELOPED INTO BETTER AIRCRAFT..THERE WAS NO NEED TO SEE FOR SU 35 OR J 10 NO NEED FOR THAT...BUT EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY THINKS HE IS RIGHT..THATS WHY ARGUEMENT BECAME TUSSELE .AS YOU ARE PRESENTING GOOD FOR NOTHING REASON..YES FOR THE SAKE OF COUNTRY I WOULD LOVE TO SPEND EVEN FROM MY POCKET...IF SOMEWHERE I WOULD BE ABLE TO...I WOULD AGAIN SAY I PRESENTED NOT BETTER BUT BEST.I HAD RIGHT TO PRESENT MY OPINION..I LOVE TO WORK FOR COUNTRY NOT FOR THE PEOPLE OF COUNTRY ..


NO ONE. NO ONE WOULD GONNA AGREE[/QUOTE]
Right, thanks for yelling. I suggest you read, observe and learn instead of yelling. Might I suggest pakdef forum as a starting point?

BTW, all J-10 pics with Pakistan flag are photoshopped and Qaher 313 is nothing but a cardboard model plane.

[URL="http://theaviationist.com/2013/02/02/iran-new-stealth-fighter/"]Iran unveils new indigenous stealth fighter “Qaher 313”. And here’s a detailed analysis.[/URL]

[URL="http://theaviationist.com/2013/02/04/iran-plane-cannot-fly/"]Here’s why Iran’s new stealth fighter jet can’t fly[/URL]

[URL="https://medium.com/war-is-boring/irans-faux-stealth-fighter-makes-embarrassing-second-appearance-5026447fd2fa"]Iran’s Faux Stealth Fighter Makes Embarrassing Second Appearance[/URL]

Any more reply's here would be a waste of my time. I've set the record straight for any rational person to see.

Adiós

And technology is changing day by day.and so as strategies so as stats will and ur stats would too. But there is a need to adjust according to defence and strategic standards innovately

I disapprove what u say but i will defend till death ur right to say. Cheers friend