Is talabanization the peneaca for our problems

[Frankenstein of css]

Taliban , deriving their intelectual roots from deoband school of sunni sects are claiming to the forbearers of a pruritarian creed of islam , which woild prove to be the pathway for the renissance of islam
The insurgent in the garb of taliban claim to be the true catholics and have the support of annonymous forigen powers providing them the arsenal and capital to fight against the sixth largest army of the world and also the stogest military block NATO in afghanistan and north western fronteir of pakistan.
Who are they ? But, perhaps a mor fundamental question will be , would they and their doctrine is the real solution to our ailing nation

[salman sial]

surely,talibinization could never b solution to our multifaceted problems,infact they are creating more problems for innocent muslims.we must not forget that Islam doesnot believe in use of force where as the basic principle of talibans is the use of force.Islam believes in love and peace where as peace is alien concept for talibans.

[Silent Spectator]

Originally Posted by salman sial

surely,talibinization could never b solution to our multifaceted problems,infact they are creating more problems for innocent muslims.we must not forget that Islam doesnot believe in use of force where as the basic principle of talibans is the use of force.Islam believes in love and peace where as peace is alien concept for talibans.

Asslamulaikum,

Dear brother;

The mind shocking wordings of the guys who intend to be Csp's of future. When soever I concentrate on their words regarding Islam ( A complete deen of peace, justice, tranquility, brother hood,), I feel sorry for them. Islam is a complete deen, it does not require amendments in it, if some one does, he or she is called "INNOVATIVE, "BIDAATI".
I really don't want to condemn the words of Salman, rather I would urge him to learn Islam then talk in it, don't shoot in the dark.
Where have you read that Islam forbids force against the non-muslims, Islam permits the Muslims to behead, undermine the Infidels.

My dear I will notify you that Allah has given the order to muslims to be ready and be in Power..

“And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery) to threaten the enemy of Allaah and your enemy”
[al-Anfaal 8:60]

Hence it is prescribed to fight in a manner that will strike terror into the heart of the enemy.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allaah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az Zaalimoon (the polytheists, and wrong-doers)”

[al-Baqarah 2:193]

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allaah), then certainly, Allaah is All-Seer of what they do”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

Further ALLAH says,

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against them so that Allaah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people,

And remove the anger of their (believers’) hearts. Allaah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allaah is All-Knowing, All-Wise”

[al-Tawbah 9:14-15]

The Holy verses of the Holy Qur'an clearly reveal that Islam emphasises on power.

And regarding your this point that Taliban don't want peace, I will not speak more rather will offer you a Book written by "Yo Aane ridley" a british journalist, now her name is "Maryam".
I have given the same reference in books place of references of the same forum as well. Plz read her book you will come to know the real circustances dont be a dogmatic, of Media. Come out from the fool's paradise, have a firm
belief in Allah.

Regards.

[Tipu Shah]

@ Brother Naqeebullah Khan

you are right my dear but......................

Where have you read that Islam forbids force against the non-muslims, Islam permits the Muslims to behead, undermine the Infidels.

My dear brother Allah permit us to use force against non-muslims, but my dear talibans are using their force against their muslim brothers,,,,
just tell me one thing my dear,,,,, how many non-muslims were died in WAH-Bomb Blast,,,,,, How mny non-mulslims are died in Lahore-Bomb Blasts,,,,,, yar tell me i m waiting for your answers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and yar please be strict to the topic, the topic is about the solution of current situation, 1) support taliban, 2) discourage taliban.......

give the answer that what is solution select one from above option,,,,, waiting........................................... .................

[Frankenstein of css]

First of all naqeebullah you are misguiding the aspirant of css
Surrah infaal was revealed on the prohet mohammad PBUH after the battle of baddar
Quran narrates the circumstances and rhetoricaly emphesized upon the muslims to fight with vigor and zeal against the infidels who would attack on a muslim land with an intention of annihilating the torch bearers of islam
And islam stresses upon power yeah sure Read bukhari ( if you could) Muslim had only two horses, two swords and most of the muslim army was composed of elderly and physiclly weak yet outnumbered 8 to one arab most ferrocious warriors. The likes of abujahal, utba, Waleed , amru bin abdood and the sardars of qurresh
They had more then 300 horses , 500 iron clad youths of quresh and 1000 infidels ( prohet Mohammad PBUH commented , Indeed makkah poured all her jewels on this land this day)
Allah bestowed muslim an unimaginable victory aginst the most awsome odds
Allah praise the muslims and The whole surrah deals with the muslim behavior in war.
Now islam doesnot believe in proselytazion
The principle quran is
Deen mein kuyi jabar nahi ( alquran)
Allah forbids the muslim as
Aur zameen par fasad pheelaney waloon mein na hoon jana
(Al Quran)
The number of kills in all the ghazwa and sarya was less than 700 (including the jews of bani naseer)
All the battles of prohet mohammad were defensive and there was no attempt on part of our salaf ( yes our salaf) to force islam on yhe nonmuslims
Muslims should live in peace with the nonmuslims and honor the agrrement amongst each other but it doesnt means to lay down your arms against a group of heretics who have intention to harm peaceful muslim faternity When Daral Islam would become Darul Islam
Now what i witness from these salafi islamist is cruel behaviors and prosecution of sufi sects Brelvis and other school of thoughts
Why have they burnt 270 schools in malakand only
Why they are slaughtering their muslim brethren The jawan of pak army so ruthlessly and who is supporting their war of destabilising pakistan

[dr.ali.zaidi]

Salamunalaikum,

I would also like to take the opportunity to reflact my thought on the topic as well. I remember a brother saying that it is permitted to use fore against non Muslims. Awesome brother and thanks for guiding me cuz I used to think that killing one innocent human is equal to killing whole Humanity. And i didn't utter these words, Infact, These are the Words of Allah SWT.
Now, Allah has announced his verdict saying that anyone who saves one human life is as if he saved whole humanity and one who took one innocent's (It can be a non Muslim as well) is as if he killed whole Humanity.
Now, I need your help here. If Taliban are really working for Allah's cause then isn't is that their best reward lies in saving lives of Humans (Muslims and Non Muslim). But againi can understand that it is not easy to save human life because to be able to do so, you need to be learned. For instance, A doctor save multiple lives in career but to be a doctor you have to study medicine. To make cars more protective for Humans you need to be a good engineer & to be a good engineer you need to study again and the examples go on.. These are the few way to get really near to Allah (You can youself figure out how successful would be the one who save whole humanity's life)
But to amuzement to my amazement and astonishment, i found one job that is really easy and simple to do and i get most reward for that. I must tell you that i am an illiterate person who can not write or read and spent all my previous life in waste. Now i have got married and have five kids but since I am illiterate, I can't afford to raise my family. I used to really worried about my wife, kids and old parents who were after all my resposibility.
But one day i saw a ray of emancipation from all these resposibilities when my neighbour taliban Mullah came to show me the right path to paradise. i will now quote our discussion here.

Mullah: Assalamoalaikum
Me: Walaikum salam
Mullah: How are you??
Me: not bad Alhumdullilah
Mullah: You look worried worried.
Me: Yes, because my wife is expecting a child. My daughter who is 2 years old is really sick, my mother has diabetes and my father is suffering from TB and enlarged protate gland and i have no money.
Mullah: Why dont you work?
me: I used to work. I had a shopand used to sell television but it was completely annihilated by Taliban last month. My Wife is intermediate pass and was a school teacher in girls' school but she lost her job because taliban blew up the school last week.
Mullah: Don't worry this life is transient, you should prepare for the life hereafter.
Me: My life here after is dependent on how I treat my parents and how i raise my children. Providing them with food is my resposibility
Mullah: come with me and go to Jehad. Since you dont have anything left in this life but fro Jehad you will be rewarded thousands of palaces in Paradise and hundreds of Hoors there with lots of servants and canals of milk.
Me: Oh Mullah! have not you heard our Prophet SAW saying to a Sahabi to stay home because his mother needed her and was old. For him, Jehad was in serving his parents. My Jehad is serving my parents who need me at this age.
For your Hoors and servants, I would say that my wife who has sacrificed so much for me is my Hoor and my children who are so obedient to me do not leave any desire to have servants.
Mullah: But can't you see how Islam is being attacked by infidels. Its high time to retaliate and tell them that we stand for Islam. Here take this gun and do as i say!!
Me: You look in your late forties. You must be having grown up kids??
Mullah: Yes i have two sons, one is twenty four and other is twenty six and both of them are Imam of two local mosques at such young age.
Me: why didn't you send them?
Mullah: Oh you see, I am more worried about people. and their job is different, they convince people to go for jehad.
Me: Oh really! isn't it amazing that you are saving yourself and your children in the name of leadership and using other's children as intruments.
Mullah: But Jehad is obligatory upon us.
Me: So is providing children with education, wife with basic necessities and parents with comfort. I am sorry but you seem to have not percieved Islam properly.
Mullah: But we will take care of your family and you'll be taken care by Allah. You just have to take one of two missions against infidels and Inshallah soon you'll be in paradise.
Me: What will i have to do??
Mullah: You'll be performing a suicidal blast near Wah factory or you can kill many infidels Shias at DI khan.
Me: But people to be killed, in both of these locations, will be Muslims. and even if some non infidels is passing by, He is innocent and can not be killed.
Mullah: No, you see most of the people around Wah are Fauji and they are not Muslims because they killed my lieutent and the ones in DI Khan are Shias and they are Infidels anyway. But look at the reward.. Jannah
Me: Please.. I have had enough of your non sense. I am a patrior Pakistani and devout Muslim so i will not take any step to harm my country or my fellow Muslims. I will not pick arms against innocent Non Muslims either. Please do not misguide me. My financial crisis are made by you people but i am not so weak as to get exploited by you. Please Let us live in peace and prosperity. We are the ones suffering most from your so called Holy War. This should be brought to an END now as we all have had enough.

[Frankenstein of css]

naqeebullah narrates the verses of surah tubah and especially verse 193 of buqara but first of all surah tubah was revealed on prohet mohammad PBUH on after the expedition of Tabuk. There was a background of munafiqeen intrigues ( the whole masjid zarrar issue) and then also There was praise from the almighty for the mujaheeden and sahaba
Naqeebullah quoted the verses from Surah tubah but did not mention the context from where they are derived
Every one has Quran Shareef Please read any standard authentic tafseer your self
he also quoted Surah Baqra ayat 193 but he deliberately missed verse 190 of the same surah

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. For Allah loveth not transgressors
(2:190)

Last i found my self quite incapable for a commentator on such sensitive issue
May Allah forgive me , and show me the true and righteous way
May Allah allow me to end my life on Islam as muslim
May Allah provide me the opputunity to recite His Oneness, The Kalma E Tayabah on my last breath
h

[Silent Spectator]

Originally Posted by honey shah

@ Brother Naqeebullah Khan

you are right my dear but......................



My dear brother Allah permit us to use force against non-muslims, but my dear talibans are using their force against their muslim brothers,,,,
just tell me one thing my dear,,,,, how many non-muslims were died in WAH-Bomb Blast,,,,,, How mny non-mulslims are died in Lahore-Bomb Blasts,,,,,, yar tell me i m waiting for your answers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and yar please be strict to the topic, the topic is about the solution of current situation, 1) support taliban, 2) discourage taliban.......

give the answer that what is solution select one from above option,,,,, waiting........................................... .................

Asslamulaikum,

Really mind shocking, heart disappointing, mentally distressed replies, God Willing I will ellaborate each and every Question of the Aspirants.
(KEEP ONE THING IN MIND I HAVE CITED THE HOLY VERSES OF HOLY QUR'AN HOW CAN I MAKE ASTRAY THE ASPIRANTS AND MISGUIDE THEM, FOR GOD SAKE MY BROTHER FRANKSTEIN).
My dear; I can assert that the attacks in Pakistan, most of them are not tasks of Taliban. I am 125% Sure, because their basic concept is of shariah, so how can they do it?
The bomb blasts about which you are talking were not the worst acts of Taliban, You people may laugh at me that Taliban admit those attacks, but I am dead sure that it was not their ferocity.
The passage of time will let the cat come out of bag. Trust me.

Regards.

To be continued.......................

[Faryal Shah]

In the absence of a dialogue, discussion, debate, negotiations, the issue will remain alive. Call it “Talibanization” or whatever you may like, the need for which Pakistan was established will remain. There will always be people willing to struggle for exercising their right to self-determination and self-rule in a just society which they believe would not allow violation of the very basic principles of Islam. What is labelled as Talibanization is actually the polarization in Pakistan.



Turdy Rubin’s article in Philadelphia Inquirer (Miami Herald, Posted on Sat, Nov. 10, 2007) is a classic example of the minds working under the huge influence of anti-Islam propaganda.

The analysis begins with criticising Musharraf’s military regime and the way it sacked and jailed the judges of the Supreme Court and arrested a number of lawyers and human rights activities. She rightly says that “Islamist parties” in Pakistan “have never won more than 11 percent of the vote” and the real threat in Pakistan are “not the Islamists.”

Then she moves on to the twisted facts propagated for the sake for anti-Islam propaganda. She writes: “The real threat in Pakistan today is not that Islamists will triumph at the polls. The threat is the creeping ''Talibanization'' of areas of Pakistan, where home-grown jihadis are expanding outward from their bases in tribal areas along the Afghan border.”

The fist point is that why call religious parties “Islamists” who don’t share the same goal; who do not share the same strategy; who are hardly different than their secular counter parts; who are more supportive of the US-backed, secular military regime than any other party. They are as much exploiting the banner of Islam as much was Zia Ul Haq doing the same for the US. Why was Zia not called Islamist and Jihadist? This is just a simple indicator of total ignorance of the Western analysts, writing under the influence of an unimaginable amount of disinformation about Muslims and Islam.

The unfortunate reality is that even those who are seriously critical of the military regime in Pakistan find it hard to get out of the influence of the years long propaganda. No doubt excesses were committed during the Taliban reign. However, it is absolutely wrong to invent labels such as “talibanization” and use them where the objective is to make people untouchable, unpardonable and evil.

One has to understand the phenomenon which is being labelled as Talibanization. Almost 90% of the so-described Talibanization is resistance to the military regime’s aggression in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan. Local people are reacting to the high-handed approach – rather enemy making adventures – of Pakistani military so that it could keep the myth of al-Qaeda alive and let the US believe that it is fighting a “war on terrorism.” Without this approach the US support will dry up and the military regime will be doomed.

Whatever is happening in Bara and Swat, on the other hand, is the total failure of Pakistani military and civilian feudal elites in establishing a true Islamic welfare state at it was envisioned before the creation of Paksitan. Both the military and the religious political parties successfully used the slogan of Islam, but didn’t work seriously to make Pakistan a model Islamic state, which could remove the morbid dread and totally misplaced misconceptions about an Islamic state.

The US also successfully used the desire of masses to live by Islam, first in the 1970 to throw Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto out through financially (and otherwise) supporting a religious movement for establishing Islam in Pakistan. It was called Tahreek-Nifaz-e-Islam – almost the same slogan as we hear in Swat these days. That exploitation of Islam by the US was followed by the US playing with the peoples’ feelings for Islam by promoting Jihad against the Soviet Union and communism, whereby Muslims were told that if communism succeeded, they won’t be able to practice religion and live by Islam. That’s exactly what the US wants them to do now.

After defeating the Soviet Union, the US didn’t need to exploit the peoples’ genuine hankering for living by Islam any more. So it started promoting secularism and sufi Islam. Like Zia, who followed the US in using the banner of Islam for safeguarding US strategic interests, the new dictators in Islamabad is using the banner of secularism to serve the US interests by keeping Muslims away from Islam. Both Generals engaged in doing what the US wanted them to do to perpetuate their rule for the US hegemonic designs in the region.

In the process, however, the people’s desire to live by Islam in an independent, sovereign state never diminished. A majority of the masses still want self-rule and living by Islam as much they wanted before 1947. The same desire was effectively used for the creation of a separate, independent state for Muslims.

So, observing the failure of government after governments in Islamabad, and seeing no progress on the front of establishing living by Islam, some individuals took it upon themselves to do as much as they could in this regard.

Lal Masjid, Bara and Swat are some of the examples. These individuals and the people associated with them may have committed mistakes. They may have committed excesses. They might be totally wrong as well. However, did anyone listen to these people as to what do they want? They might be doing what they want to do in a wrong way, but are their demands also wrong? Are they against the law of the land? Are they against the constitution of Pakistan? Did anyone discuss and debate with them? Did anyone try to do, whatever they demand, in a right way? The answer to all these questions is: Absolutely not, simply because that is not a priority for them.

In the absence of a dialogue, discussion, debate, negotiations, the issue will remain alive. Call it “Talibanization” or whatever you may like, the need for which Pakistan was established will remain. There will always be people willing to struggle for exercising their right to self-determination and self-rule in a society which they believe would not allow violation of the very basic principles of Islam.

What is labelled as Talibanization is actually the polarization in Pakistan, where on the one hand are the feudal elites and their secular supporters who believe that living by the basic principles of Islam is not possible in 21st century. On the other hand are the people who believe that if given a peaceful opportunity, they can demonstrate to the world that living by Islam is not oppressive; it does not violate human rights; it does not advocate totalitarianism; it does not violence and nihilism; it does not promote anti-Westernism for the sake of it, and it does not allow anyone to do whatever myths have been associated with Islam.

The bottom-line is that the basic principle of the Islamophobic Bush-Mush approach is to not even listen to the people who don’t agree with them; don’t give them a chance to prove what they claim. According to the neo-cons strategy and belief, since living by Islam will be oppressive and a threat to the humanity, they are justified in using oppression and crimes against humanity to deny others a chance to prove that what they want will not be oppressive or a threat to the humanity.

It simply confirms the Islamophobes’ belief that their existing and present danger, their factual terrorism, oppression and nihilist approach is good as long as they can make their people believe that they are fighting a presumed threat of Talibanization which will be more oppressive than the oppression employed against them.

[Frankenstein of css]

Faryal shah indeed provided us with a deep and thougthful analysis of current quagmire of pakistan internal security and the failure of strategic depth policy.
But this spreading menace of extremisim , intolerance and millitanancy is indeed a real hazard to peace in muslim regions in particular and the world in general.
Right from nine eleven 2001 there were incidences of Bali explosion , madrid bombings, moscow bombings , london 7/7 terror and many suicide attacks especially in afghanistan , iraq and pakistan
Muslims all over the world are living in area entrangled with the intrigues of forigen powers , trying to establish their respective designs and continue their hagemony over under-developed countries. These muslim fundamentalist are playing tools in the hands of the already present super power USA and the emerging candidates for world suzrerainty China , post soviet Russia and India. There is continous tussle amongst these forces to use these millitant groups against each other. There are strong evidences to prove Russia intimate intrication in Taliban and Alqaeda revival in afghanistan and also the NATO block's utmost efforts to promote insurgency in Angushtia and chechan regions.
Pakistan geography made it an unfortunate player in this great game of twenty-first century in afghanistan and central asia.
The pattern is reminiscent of ninteenth and tweentieth century but this time nature of simmering tensions and ideoligies is far different.
First of all here, there is a global phenomenon The Alqeeda
Alqeeda members are disenchanted , disgruntled and devoted (mostly) islamist radicals from libya, arabia , indopak and asia minor.
They believe in total failure of their respective authoritarian regimes and held them responsible for the failure of various islamic movements in Palestine , kashmir and central Asia. But ironicaly the west is quite successful in blaming them and exonerating it self from the deplorable acts of expliotation done in iraq, Saudi arabia , Palestine , kashmir , kurd areas and central asian states ,all having abundance of alluvial resoruces.Presenting the havoc of clash of civilization , and the absurd model of muslim fudamentalist destroying the world they are continuing their ammoral strategies and plans to plunder these war hit areas.
The muslim fundamentalist have taken upon them selves to associate Islam with terror , repression and backwardness. They are now the staunch supporters of clash of civilization and salafi islam.
Now these fervent ideologist had their roots mainly from IBN Wahab , who played the most significant role in destabilizing ottoman empire after their horrendous defeat in carlowitz 1699 , desperatly needing a breathing space.
Ibn wahab no doubt was amonst the most distinguished scholors of islam but he like his mentor Ibn Tamimah has the most rigid and unreproachable religious philosophy. ( Ibn Tamimah called all mughal empires of central asia as heretics as they remained adhered to Yasa , code of Genghis khan)
The perpetual arabian problem eventually led to disintegration of turkish empire and dissolution of the institution of office of khilafat in 1922.
The teaching of ibn tamimah , ibn wahab lead to a new phenomenon , a new political thought , the proponent of which were Syed qutab shaheed , Hasan ul buna and some might say Mududi.
How ever the greatest amongst all these new generation scholors was syed qutab. A product of western schooling he in his juvenescence became a true catholic and later a preacher of his ideology He called west and its institution , democracy , hagelism , darwenism as JAHALIA.
No doubt he remains amongst the most revered scholers, the interpretiton of his doctrine led to many movements ingrained in bias against western science , western paradigm of political thoughts and concepts of state and evolution of nature.
They still dreaming of the past glory are oblivious of the real cause of the complete turn around of world scenerio in just two centuries (from 1700 to 1900).
Muslim are in a much better position as compared to what they were at the dawn of tweentieth century . There are authoritarian regiemes in muslim states but atleast there is some sembelence of soverignity , some kind of room for trying to develop a common muslim resistance ( Like OIC ) platform. There is now ,ateast a hope of muslim renissance in the coming world scenario of 2050 in the wake new power players like china, russia , india , brazil , At least now there are three to four muslim countries who have some kind of vision of their rule in the upcoming world order.
Countries like Malaysia, Iran , Turkey , UAE and hopefully saudi arabia
Now in these changing circumstances , what these fanatic fools are doing is destabilising the only nuclear state and providing the pretext to the neo-cons to try another iraq in pakistan. No doubt there is a stranglehold of military-feudalist-bureacracy led establishment on pakistan, depriving the citzens of every constitutional right and disenfranchising them , but the real solution remains in democracy. Pakistan a multi ethnical , multi secterian and multi lingual state could never become a successfull taliban state.
Taliban , the disciple of salafi scholl of thought will clash with brelvis, shias and other school of thoughts. Given the demography of pakistan , this continous intolerance and militancy would cause a total upheaval of our socio economic structure and norms and a chaos of unprecdented nature where there will be a strong possibilty of islamic fundamentalist getting their hands on nuclear arsenal.
Military now remains the stongest cohesive forse and then there are forces like PPP , PML and ANP to hope for.
Future of pakistan now lays in the hands of our current political leadership and military establishment. It is realy upto them to work in the intrest of the nation. Foriegn powers are at play in pakistan (Russia, India, Usa, NATO , China , KSA and Israel)
Taliban, BLA , MQM are all playing puppets. This is high time for all of us to unite , recognise our enemies and thrive to fulfill the dream of a prosperous, dignified , united and islamic state of pakistan in the upcoming future. It is clearly evident even on a person of common prudence that the balkanization is not in the intrest of balochs nor sindhis and definatelty not the pashtuns. God forbids if this engulfing polirazation continues, we all become the losing party.