@Khakan

I'm not a CSP so I can't probably give tips to new members like other CSPs do. I take part in these discussions because I think they are very, very important. So that when people like you become CSPs, and Chief Secretaries, some of your rough edges might have been blunted by the thought that a fierce opposition exists out there and that what you think in your own mind is not shared by everyone. This to me, is as important as helping people get to the position of a CSP.

Hope you've read Dawn's editorial posted above. Besides the arguments posed there, please also notice the choice of words, "barbarians" and "savages"! Is it fine with you if I also use these words for the maulvis?

I also have a joke to share with you! Sorry, it's a lengthy one: "once a king decided to test the 'tolerance level' of his subjects. He asked his wazir to impose a horrendous amount of tax on the people. The tax was imposed but no one opposed. Next, he asked the wazir to double the tax. Still, no voices rose up. Now, he asked his wazir to stop everyone passing from one of the main roads of the city and slap them twice in the face. This was also arranged, and in a few days, a delegation of common people approached the king and presented one demand before him.

"'O' gentle king!,' they said, 'you have posted only one person on slapping us. Please post a couple more as one person having to slap all of us causes a lot of delay!"

So much for the sheepishness you are suggesting to all the people here! Should we move on with our discussion now?

@ Khakan.

My suggestion is excellent. Why are you saying that the people are happy? People are not at all happy with the new system. This speedy justice of Qazis is not justice, this is barbarity. Flogging, lashing, killing people, is this their justice?? People are innocent, they don't know what else they can do. That is why it seems that they are happy.

And the Nizam-i-adl is only for the Qazi courts, whole of administration has not been handed over to talibans. As i had been saying, its now proving to be correct. Taliban won't stop in Swat, now they have captured Buner.
They won't stop. The writ of the govt. has to b enforced. Taliban have to b dealt with force. There is no other option.

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CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier

reply to second n last coming



second coming its was good joke but it fits on u pple not on those who ve revolutionary motivs in want to replace the systm of oppresion with peaceful one. u pple r agree with injustice, economic exploitation, bad governance, corruption thn wt to say . . . . . .


our discussion wil not go ahead if we wil continue quarreling with staff on petty issues n include personal hatred. n u pple ask me as if i am paid spokesman of taliban.

reply to pani.

dear be patient it is the problm tht systm has not implentd yet n u pple r crying our acts of past. these r old stories prior to agreemnt. wait n check the new systm n say something. i said ur suggestion is immature.

i thnk govt. knows better how to restore their writ n they ve lost their preciuos soldiers while defending the country. so dont worry they wil b checkd. nizam i adl is for courts - n wt court wil say, admn wil implemnt it in letter n spirity.

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"My life was too short to acheive the conquest of the whole world." Gengis Khan

Mongol Emperor

@ khakan.

You r saying acts of the past. So now you think that taliban have become Oxford graduates?? Now taliban have become moderate thinking muslims? Taliban are extremists. ok. That is what they want others to become. Have they read Islamic sharia completely. There is no need to wait for this system to be enforced fully. Who taliban are to do this or that in Pakistan? They are not a govt. They are law- breakers, traitors. They have violated the constitution of Pakistan.

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CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier

Unfortunately, the question some of the religionists pose - should there be a shariah system in Pakistan or not - while appears to be very innocent, is in reality, an attempt to oversimplify the fact, and even mislead people. Wasn't it Zia-ul-Haq who ruled the country for more than a decade simply by blackmailing the common people for their devotion towards the religion? Wasn't it him who raised an army of poisoned killing machine with help from the US, because at that time this was in their interest?

Again, the question of whether there should be a Sharia system in the country or not is not simple. Without addressing the fundamental issues of personal freedom vs the ability of some clerical class to impose their will, even the best of Sharia will only produce discontent and violence in the country. Another oversimplification is (as was mentioned earlier in the same thread) that religion holds the entire nation - Punjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Pashtoons, and Muhajirs - together. Alright, so why did the religion not hold Bangladesh together with the rest of Pakistan? Why are many Balochis, and even Mahajirs asking for "freedom" from Pakistan? Were the Bangladeshis non-muslim? Are the Balochis and Mahajirs non-muslim? The fact, whatever our religious devotion tells us, is that religion as well as economic factors bind a nation together and until you remove economic injustice first, there is no way you can hope to get along with establishing any system of governance, let alone Sharia.

p.s. @Khakan while I can continue forever with this bickering back and forth about who the joke fits or doesn't, I request you to get working on your arguments in favor of maulvis, so we can know what you think.

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Are we human because we look at the stars, or do we look at the stars because we are human? Pointless really. Do the stars look back at us? Now that is a question!

i wil not chit chat with u in this discussion - furhter. bcz i told u earlier i m not representativ of taliban u can take a taxi to personali take thier interview. start another topic thn we wil chat. here i m sorry i wil not further enlarge bcz i hearted by mismanagement in this thread n i m leaving too for ever or may i wil just visit n wil not participate due to professional engagements. now i m free thts why enjoying.

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"My life was too short to acheive the conquest of the whole world." Gengis Khan

Mongol Emperor

Whatever works for you dear! I don't agree with you about the mismanagement in this thread but we can talk about this some other time. I've thoroughly enjoyed everyone's comments here esp. yours, shelllowwater's, newstudent's and shah110's.

Thanks a lot everyone! I don't know how you feel about this discussion but I personally think it was great. Of course, we can't hope to come to an agreement from such extremes in the course of a couple of days and a few dozen posts, but I hope we've come a bit a closer, which is the best anybody can hope for.

Best of luck!

__________________
Are we human because we look at the stars, or do we look at the stars because we are human? Pointless really. Do the stars look back at us? Now that is a question!

@Second coming Khakan and Shallow water

this was a great debate. Athough still inconclusive (which is normal for such kind of issues) i really liked it. we have very differing views on this issue. but "Ikhtilifat umat ke liye rehmat hain". so dont worry its ok. Its true that sometimes one cant control one"s self and use words which should not have been used otherwise. but in heat of debate one do it then i think its not that much.

thanx all and mods too