Constitution Constitution Constitution .................

Buddy You can curb the discretionar powers of president by only constitional amendment.committe has been constituted to curtail the 17 amendment which is a menance for parliamentary system.

whatever,the president done was legal in narrow sense because he has the power to do so which is 17 amendment.but in broder sense its illegal bcz the original constituion says that with consultaion of CJ he shall appiont judges...

I therefore,admit that President act was legal because under 17 amendment he has the power to appiont any judge WITHOUT CJ consultation...
and 17th amendment is also a part of constituion or you can say its a mini constitution..

u see dnt give confusing statements,u just admited the illegality of president's acts n then again refused the same in ur post

anyhow what i said abt the descretionary powers is a distinct issue.when we talk of democracy,how it is justified than to make one person's authority exclusive?or my be for that i need to start another thread!
regards

__________________
Stop counting your problems rather raise for their solution and BEGIN JIHAD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mashal khan The comments shows your approach and study. Being a political scientist The government act was valid,as the original constituion of 1973,under article 177 says that The Chief Justice of Pakistan shall be appointed by the President, and each of the other Judges shall be appointed by the President after consultation with the Chief Justice. BUT in ALjihad trust case,there came the seniority issue,means the senior most judge shall be appionted as cheif justic. But under 17th amendment, the president shall appiont all judges of supreme and high court,without the consultation of Cheif justice, Now you ppl tell me,the President of pakistan has the power to appiont any judge under 17 amendment. Wake up....17 amendment is still in action,if it is curtailed then this act of president would have been cosidered as illegal.

I do thank you to criticize me in a constructive and healthy manner. The point which you did want to raise was:

"Article 177 has been edited by 17th ammendment so President is not bound to have consultation with CJ in appointing of SC judges."

I think, You may agree with me for following points which you did also mention in your kind post:

1) Article 177 forces President to have consultation with CJ in appointment of SC Judges. See link

http://www.mofa.gov.pk/Publications/constitution.pdf

2) Seniority ground was rejected by SC as 25 cases were presented in front of SC where seniority was not followed. See link

http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/web/page.asp?id=251

http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/web/page.asp?id=255

3) Supreme Court of Pakistan has cleared your point in her 30-09-2009 Press Release where Supreme Court suspended acting judges who were appointed in light of 17th ammendment. See link

http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/pr/pr...30-09-2009.pdf

4) Another official press release also shows the similar direction. See link

http://www.pid.gov.pk/press31-07-09.htm

My Opinion

1) Supreme Court of Pakistan is the only authority to interprete the constitution, and Hon'ble CJP has interpreted the Article 177 in light of Original Constitution of 1973. See link

http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/pr/Pr...2-13-02-10.pdf

2) Government did also announce to take the appointment order back as their mature stance, which also weighs my first point that interpretation of constitution is for SC only. See link

http://www.pid.gov.pk/press17-02-2010.htm

3) Your logics and presented supporting evidences could not validate the Hon'ble President's act as Government has announced to develop a consensus with SC's interpretation of Article 177, even without removal of 17th ammendment.

Abstract

I had never issue with this debate to prove one party guilty as I do have an optimistic approach.

I ever tried to cool down the temperature of emotional comments against Hon'ble CJP.

I consider this conflict as difference of opinions which has now been settled with mature and admirable manner.

I beleive that this difference was there as all institues of the country are going through a developing phase to be mature enough to run the transparant and strong democratic system.

Kind Regards

__________________
You cannot hate a person when you know him

You are supporting CJ in this regard as you ought to do so..but i think which i told you is that whatever the president of pakistan done,was his power under 17th amendment,i know under article 177 the president can appiont judge BUT with consultation of CJ,But my brother the point which i am raising again and again is 17th amendment which gives the authority to president to appiont judge with his own disposal no consultation is required from cj.

MORE,whatever a CJ did,to visit PM house,is also against the code of conduct for a CJ..Remind the liaquat ali khan and ist CJ sir abdul rasheed...

what was happened when liaquat ali khan THE PM,wish to meet sir abdur rasheed,The CJ refused bcz there were many cases pending against PM..

__________________
In politics... never retreat, never retract... never admit a mistake.

PM went to judges party un invited.what CJ was suppose to do by law?not criticising just want to know if there is any particular provision in law or any code of conduct,principles of policy???

__________________
Stop counting your problems rather raise for their solution and BEGIN JIHAD.

There is a hell of diffrence between PM and CJ mr KAWISH...

__________________
In politics... never retreat, never retract... never admit a mistake.

my post has nothing to do w/ any such difference sir....
regards

__________________
Stop counting your problems rather raise for their solution and BEGIN JIHAD.

Plz remind:
Pakistan’s first Chief Justice Sir Abdur Rasheed had declined the invitation of the then Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan, saying that they would not be able to make justice while the concept of impartial judiciary would not flourish.

He said as some of the matters pertaining to the government were pending before the apex court, the chief justice should have avoided meeting the prime minister.

“It is against the law and constitution of Pakistan.

__________________
In politics... never retreat, never retract... never admit a mistake.

Dear Participants,
I am very aggrieved to say, this is nothing else, then the war of power, whether it is among provinces or between President and Supreme Court. This indicates that there is no sign/clue that our Week & unchanged system continued from the very beginning of Pakistan would be revolutionized in the future. As we know, since Pakistan came into being, there is one sole power exists that is Punjab, whatever Punjab wants would happen in the country because it is big brother who is sole decision making authority, that can take every action in respect of the country. This is the Punjab which enjoys independence, other provinces are slaves.

Resentfully, Punjab giving some share to NWFP and with the help of it imposes every decision on the other provinces like on Sindh and Baluchistan.

I think we forgot that it is the Supreme Court that murdered our great leader Shaheed Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto, that later called a judicial murder. Although, this is the Supreme Court who gave safe exit to Mian Nawaz Sharif, why was he relieved because he was Punjabi, why not any Punjabi leader assassinated why she was Benazir Bhutto who was murdered in Rawalpindi. There is no terrorist who can kill Nawaz Sharif. Why all of the Bhutto family killed why not any other leader? Any one has the answer?

Whenever PPP came into the reign establishment didn’t let it complete its tenure. Just one slogan establishment doesn’t want. Who are in the establishment, all of the armed forces are governed/leaded by either Punjabis or Sarhadis, and all of the intelligence agencies are full of Punjabi leadership why there isn’t any Sindhi or Balochi at key posts. Establishment doesn’t want, actually this means Punjab doesn’t want. Establishment is actually Punjab that doesn’t want any Sindhi and Balochi leader.

There is no debate over water dispute, no one here to discuss that why Sindh boycotted the ISRA in the last Meeting held for resolving water dispute.

Coming to Supreme Court, don’t we know that Chaudry Iftikhar is the one who took oath under PCO when Musharaf deposed PML(N) government. Now he thinks himself as a precious, innocent, and benevolent. He is the corrupt; he is politicizing the country, the justice. He is doing nothing else just taking country on the path of division, on the path of separation. He just wants himself to become supreme leader in the country. Do we forget recent murder of young girl who was servant that killed by advocate in Lahore, where was he why didn’t he setup court late night, setting court in late night just for political purposes, why she wasn’t given immediate justice by supreme court.

Nawaz Sharif who thinks himself pure, one who free from sins or wrongdoing, has himself attacked on Supreme Court under probably under his own regime, now he shouting slogan independent judiciary. Why Nawaz Sharif has relieved from all the cases from Chaudry Court? Why Chaudry Court took oath under PCO and deposed his government and kept him in prison? Why he didn’t relieve him under Musharaf regime? Why is he now relieved? Zardari is blamed to refund money looted, and called on of the corrupt leader, why don’t you ask Nawaz Sharif that where are proceeds collected in the campaign of Qarz Utaro Mulk Sanwaro, where is that money, in which Sharif’s account it is kept, where is record of that money. Don’t we know that Nawaz looted railways and steel mill, and looted all of the iron form both and started iron mill where is that record, where is accountability who would ask him. Again he is Punjabi, whereas accountability is just for Sindhis and Balochis.


Actually current political crises in nothing just it is hostility and conspiracy of fraternity because a Sindhi is holding the seat of President. So they don’t want a Sindhi with this much authority holding a president.

That was Sindh Assembly who passed resolution for independent Pakistan and decided to become part of Pakistan not Punjabistan. Unfortunately, later our (Sindhis and Balochis) rights were violated that is continue till now. We don’t want Pakistan to be broken in parts but if this is not stopped then we would not keep silence and We want to inform you all that if something happen with president we would go in protest and agitation and would prefer to be separated from Punjabistan (so called Pakistan).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mehreen Jabeen Dear Participants, I am very aggrieved to say, this is nothing else, then the war of power, whether it is among provinces or between President and Supreme Court. This indicates that there is no sign/clue that our Week & unchanged system continued from the very beginning of Pakistan would be revolutionized in the future.

A lot of respect for your kind opinion with the reservation of your learned pessimistic approach.

Quote:

As we know, since Pakistan came into being, there is one sole power exists that is Punjab, whatever Punjab wants would happen in the country because it is big brother who is sole decision making authority, that can take every action in respect of the country.

Are you sure about your statement? Could you please refer some relevant evidences for knowledge sharing?

Quote:

This is the Punjab which enjoys independence, other provinces are slaves.

I do condemn your thought as it reflects the negativism; a harmful element for nationalism and patriotism.

Quote:

Resentfully, Punjab giving some share to NWFP and with the help of it imposes every decision on the other provinces like on Sindh and Baluchistan.

I liked your style of praise for NFC AWARD; I would deffinitely appreciate if you could put some burden of proofs here to support your alligation.

Quote:

I think we forgot that it is the Supreme Court that murdered our great leader Shaheed Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto, that later called a judicial murder.

How can one forget this abandoned, corrupt, iniquitous, sinful and malevolent act of occupied supreme court and vicious military dictatorship; Great hero doesn't hang in vacuum.

Quote:

Although, this is the Supreme Court who gave safe exit to Mian Nawaz Sharif, why was he relieved because he was Punjabi,

I couldn't get your reference; Please make it explained for me.

Quote:

why not any Punjabi leader assassinated

Who was the leader in history of Pakistan from Punjab; I think as per true definition of leader, with apologies, Punjab couldn't produce a leader in past 62 years. If there was not someone then who was supposed to be hanged and for what ???

Quote:

why she was Benazir Bhutto who was murdered in Rawalpindi. There is no terrorist who can kill Nawaz Sharif.

You can never compare Mohtarma with Nawaz Shareef on any ground as she was a brain; a sad end of Bhutto's episode, a great loss to the country and the nation. Why are you seeking for another loss?

Quote:

Why all of the Bhutto family killed why not any other leader? Any one has the answer?

Yeah surely I have a clear answer, Bhuttos were revolutionary personnel and their callibre did place them on verge of political defiance and heresy against the 100 year's system. Such a people are really harmful for the existing rule of matriarchs.

Quote:

Whenever PPP came into the reign establishment didn’t let it complete its tenure.

Same was with the Nawaz League's tenures; what will you now comment?

Quote:

Just one slogan establishment doesn’t want.

What is the slogan? what does establishment not want?

Quote:

Who are in the establishment, all of the armed forces are governed/leaded by either Punjabis or Sarhadis, and all of the intelligence agencies are full of Punjabi leadership why there isn’t any Sindhi or Balochi at key posts.

Now you have added Pakhtoons in your ground of argument which seriously disturbed your presented opinion "Others are slaves".

The latest Military dictator belonged to Sindh; if your claim is genuin, how could he be able to be Core Commander?

Quote:

Establishment doesn’t want, actually this means Punjab doesn’t want. Establishment is actually Punjab that doesn’t want any Sindhi and Balochi leader.

Hoping your critics are now losen its ground as your claim proved wrong in case of General (R) Musharraf.

Quote:

There is no debate over water dispute, no one here to discuss that why Sindh boycotted the ISRA in the last Meeting held for resolving water dispute.

Agreed

Quote:

Coming to Supreme Court, don’t we know that Chaudry Iftikhar is the one who took oath under PCO when Musharaf deposed PML(N) government. Now he thinks himself as a precious, innocent, and benevolent. He is the corrupt; he is politicizing the country, the justice. He is doing nothing else just taking country on the path of division, on the path of separation. He just wants himself to become supreme leader in the country. Do we forget recent murder of young girl who was servant that killed by advocate in Lahore, where was he why didn’t he setup court late night, setting court in late night just for political purposes, why she wasn’t given immediate justice by supreme court.

Hon'ble CJP belongs to Balochistan Province so your claim "Others are slaves" are again falsified.

With loads of disagreement, in your presented context, it s a war of Balochi and Sindhi in shape of your presented comments.

Quote:

Nawaz Sharif who thinks himself pure, one who free from sins or wrongdoing, has himself attacked on Supreme Court under probably under his own regime, now he shouting slogan independent judiciary. Why Nawaz Sharif has relieved from all the cases from Chaudry Court? Why Chaudry Court took oath under PCO and deposed his government and kept him in prison? Why he didn’t relieve him under Musharaf regime? Why is he now relieved? Zardari is blamed to refund money looted, and called on of the corrupt leader, why don’t you ask Nawaz Sharif that where are proceeds collected in the campaign of Qarz Utaro Mulk Sanwaro, where is that money, in which Sharif’s account it is kept, where is record of that money. Don’t we know that Nawaz looted railways and steel mill, and looted all of the iron form both and started iron mill where is that record, where is accountability who would ask him. Again he is Punjabi, whereas accountability is just for Sindhis and Balochis.

An emotional approach did hide the fact that Hon'ble CJP was elevated to Supreme Court from Balochistan Province.

Quote:

Actually current political crises in nothing just it is hostility and conspiracy of fraternity because a Sindhi is holding the seat of President. So they don’t want a Sindhi with this much authority holding a president.

Who ??? A Baloch (with loads of disagreement, in your context)???

Quote:

That was Sindh Assembly who passed resolution for independent Pakistan and decided to become part of Pakistan not Punjabistan. Unfortunately, later our (Sindhis and Balochis) rights were violated that is continue till now.

If you look deeply into the matter then you can easily reallise that it was the same case for all poor; even of Punjab and NWFP aslo.

Quote:

We don’t want Pakistan to be broken in parts but if this is not stopped then we would not keep silence and We want to inform you all that if something happen with president we would go in protest and agitation and would prefer to be separated from Punjabistan (so called Pakistan).

I do suggest you to go through the following article please. See the link for that article:


http://biopsychiatry.com/depression/negbias.html

Conclusion

Poor does not have any identity with regions and ethnic backgrounds; as it is poor in every territory. Hunger is the same feeling for hungries of whole of the world; above than that of regional classifications.

Agreed fact is that poor was deprived for centuries in this region; especially, even after the emergance of Pakistan.

Landed aristocracy and elite class of the country did ever consider the poor as spawn of the underground.

Bhuttos struggled against this cruel system and murdered for their crime of the revolt.

We should continue Bhutto's fight against this system but beyond the regional boundries.

Kind Regards

__________________
You cannot hate a person when you know him