Dear All,

What'z your p.o.v about the threat Pervez Musharraf received by America: to push Pakistan in stone ages?

Don't we see that still we are being pushed to stone ages but slowly. Why a brave man opted to die slowly and painfully where he had the option to sacrify the lives at once for a great cause and against evil forces. The ground reality is before us that people use to commit suicide due to starvation, is it not a sypmtom of stone ages? Sudden death rate is highest in our country, is it not another sign? There is no electricity, governments are unable to pay the salaries of their servants, hike of prices and most important dead conscious rulers and messes too, aren't these signs of stone ages?
We are dying but slowly. Have you ever observed a goat, to be sacrified on Eid Qurban, what'z its position if we, mistakenly, use a dull cutter? Can you feel the pain of slow death, same is we suffering or not?
May be I am talking so as I was not on the position to decide but if we were there, what would be our decision?

v.rite Mr. u r absolutely rite ...v r living in a stone age exactly.if v come out ov our homes after 6 or 7 o clock ,v ll c people sitting out side the area is swollowed by darkness n it ll b black out people ll b using dastin pankhas ,,,,,,,just imagine are not v in stone age? how civilised n how eduated v r that our leaders our ministers complete their studies randomly 1st they do B.A then matric n at last F.A hahahhahahaha........justice is nowhere ,revenge is everywhere...........so v r now pushed to b a part ov stone age,,

need ov the hour is to analyse ourselveskoz sometimes awaam k sudhrnay sy khwaas khud sudher jatay hn.

REGARDS

hi dear majority of people offen say about worst democarcy is better than good autocracy. its all happen in the democratic government not only in this goverenment but also in previous governments. according to my point of veiw MR mushraff himself had a good governnce, although he had done some wrong steps about war and terror,Lal masjid, Akbar bugtti's murder, steel mill scandal, collision with SC, But in his govt there was marit,justice,light and littel bit peace.
I think no any political party has capabilty to drag pakistan from crisess.

Before analysing the situation, we are to acknowledge the meaning of stone age.
to a common mind, it has the following meanings:
1)an age of "absolute" deprivation
2)rogue state

But,to an optimist, it has other meanings:
3)an age of beginning
4)an age of doing something new
5)an age of evolution towards progress

I don,t know which meaning you have taken.
-----now we would analyze all above meanings of stone age ....pertaining pakistan.

1]an age of absolute deprivation:
Although we have loadshedding,corruption,chaos,joblessness,poverty, suicides,barbarian fanaticism, yet we have 26 power plants,many honest people and institutions like motorway police,nadra(applauded worldwide),peace atleast in many small cities,100 thousand rich people and 100 bn $ in swiss accounts(although snatched by a few).
moreover; a profesional army(world ranking #4),efficient intelligence agencies(IsI world ranking#3), talented bureaucracy,former world champions of cricket,hockey,snokker,squash, genius scientists and leading nuke programme,fertile landscape,industrial zones in many cities.we r top exporter of cotton to usa, top ranked supplier of vegetables and fruits to middle east. pivotal landscape. gwadar, makran coastal highway.blouch rich minerals of trillions $ worth.
we have problems but not the absolute problems.
so, according to 1st definition, we are not in the stone age.

2] rogue state:
according to noam chomsky,it has two meanings:1)a state in failure,2)a state with no boundries.
according to wikipaedia" it has different meanings in different countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page



i would like to say that we have the boundries and we do possess many successes in many walks of our national life.

Until we are at the map of the world,we are not a rogue state.

3]An age of beginning;
demise of a dictator, civil society movements, free media,efficient and popular judiciary and more awareness among voters (look at results of lhr byelections where pti got 18000 votes) are
the milestones of the age of new beginning for us.
4]Age of doing something new:
the challenges should hammer our ego.
iqbal said;
"do not be afraid of the opposite winds!
these blow ,just to make you fly higher".
kanwal ka phool quagmire he main ugta hai.
this crisis is a blessing in disguise for the optimist mind.

5]An age of evolution towards progress;
no doubt , we have defeated the earthquake,clergis and extremists, and a little bit the loadshedding,ban on media. started a crackdown against fake degrees.

what we need in these bleak circumstances is to;
a)learn from the past b)galvanize judiciary c) bolster parliament d)entrench the democracy e)revamp the sanctum of ideological pakistan.

f)utilize our human and natural resources.

The evolution has begum.
Future pakistan should be like that;

"urooj e adam e khaaki' se anjum sehme jaate hain,
keh yeh toota hua tara ma,ae kaamil na ban jaye".

----we should be optimistic.Please do not throw exaggerated vernacular bombs of disappointment.

@ above

Bro, I was seeking for such a positive appoach. I have pressed the Thanks button but I want to acknowledge the effort by you. It is a pleasure for me to transform my views by seconding yours.
Again Thanks a lot for showing such an optimistic approach in Pakistan. We need an addition of practical approach to change the map of our societal norms.

__________________
Fixed signs.

i suppose wht was said to pervaiz musharaf was just a script which was actualy desingned well before wht happened at 11 sep.In my opinion USA always wnted the world to be involved in this blood shed war and again it was always on the cards of USA to involve the subcontinent nations pakistan and india ,since both serve as true slaves to the masters.IT was never a war against terrorism but infact it was just another act of imperealism and neocolonialism by USA.so my brotherS thoes words had no meaning at all .I heard of this planing well before frm my teacher ISHAQ ALVI ,he was lft commader in navy , wht he analysed was tht USA DELIBRATELY wanted to see clash of civilization.And this was the only way for the USA and her ALLIES TO STRANGLE THE 3 WORLD COUNTRIES IN PARTICULAR MUSLIM states.One eminent aspect of this clash is the RELEGION it self and to aggravate the misconception of islamic fundamental JIHAD.Now to the other aspect of the discussion the sufferings of the human kind and the scarcity of natural resources of PAKISTAN is itself a symbol of the stone age,where MIGHT IS RIGHT has created a n elemnt of resentment among the
distitute people of this nation.NO external force is responsible of these happenings but the whole nation is responcible to this.we our selves wnt the incompetent ppl to rule ,dig out loop holes in national laws and thn challenge thm in courts, misinterperate the relegion and many more.I wod in the end write tht a stone age means lack of resources,ppl tht lived in the stone ages were ignorant ones a state in which ppl r uninformed, uneducated or unware without knowledge,THY WERE NOT THE STUPID ones , but today humans of our age r idiocies thoes suprisingly help to see THE STONE AGE in pratical terms prevaling thru out the nation.LONG LIVES THE NATION.

I must say you have tried the hard strings of guitar. Indeed a very good food for thought in form of this discussion.

First of all I dont think it was that easy for america to throw pakistan into the stone age, dont forget we are an ATOMIC Nuclear state. America would have given it hundred thoughts to strike against pakistan. This was just a drama staged to join american alliance.

Second this was Musharraf individual decision to join WOT and became an ally with international community again at the terms and conditions of america. Infect he could have cached the situation like Gen. Zia-Ul-Haq who also curbed the communist invasion and strengthen his own country frontiers.

Third despite remaining neutral in this war, Pakistan have suffered heavy losses and it is still on, un precedented casualties, thousands of people martyerd by fighting illogical war as proven from statement from Gen. McCrystal himself that we are fighting an unwinable war in the wrong terrain.

Fourth blunder was that Musharraf a soleley decision maker had not taken local populace on board and nepotically launched operations in Waziristan agency which resulted in a spade of suicide bombing and such horrific activities.

Had he taken local populace on board in this WOT the results could have been completely different as is endorsed by Imran Khan PTI.

I must appreciate Musharraf for maintaining his economy graph stable, there were foreign investment and no trust deficit as is prevailing in current democratic regime.

Thanks for posting this topic .:-)

__________________
Shiraz A.K
Assistant Commissioner (IRS)