IYYa sis,

the answer to all your quiries is that he was a great opportunist... first made his name and fame, and then slowly turned towards terrorism... he used the word jihad for gaining the sentiments of the muslims and religious circles... after all he was an american scapegoat so not to ask about how he recieved funds when the american eyes were deliberately shut down....

he army has performed in the past. But the problem with our nation is that in testing times we tend to lose all conscience too. What you are saying, can just as easily be credited to American propaganda. And isnt that apparent what with all the latest attacks, i.e, systematically finding loopholes in the system to create insurgency. Loopholes btw, exist everywhere. Remember the Pakistani origin US army (doctor?) who went on a shooting spree in Maryland army base last year? When it comes to national security, Mexican illegal immigrants make up 11 million out of a total of 20 million, who cross border every year, and are involved in all kinds of criminal activities once in the US. They are a major headache for several Southern states. US authorities havent been able to stop them despite all the barbed wires and border controls.

But terrorism is a unique tool, unlike any other conflict, which is why its treated as a separate study these days. Other types of conflicts usually have select targets, are concentrated within a space, and have specific modes of conduct. Terrorism doesnt follow these rules. The above are one of the first few things they teach in that course. Our security forces will never be able to make up for their numbers or area of spread. Many people question how Europe and USA has been able to control the situation. Well, ask them. If terrorism was primarily directed at the West as they claim, why isnt every train station, public park or shopping mall being rocked there every day like in Pakistan. All the above and many other venues are VERYYY easy targets for a suicide bomber. In the US, carrying licensed arms is allowed and is practiced on a large scale in many states. Homemade bombs can also create havoc equally well. So its not an issue of acquiring devices of destruction. Why, then after 9/11 have there been no further terrorist activities? These are all questions that Pakistanis should now be focusing on and raising up in the international community. As to the efficacy of our forces, our media is acting extremely out-of-control and irresponsible. Lets do some comparison. When merely 2 terrorists were stationed inside the Mumbai's Taj Hotel in 2008, they were able to hold many hundreds hostage for '3 DAYS' while India's elite special forces groups struggled to put them down. 3 DAYS. 2 Terrorists. And a much more concentrated, enclosed area with no national assets due for protection inside. Our Special forces contingents took 16 hours (with breaks for strategy building), killed all of them, and saved other important air force assets from destruction. When engaging an opponent, fire assertion had to be sufficient to engage them yet directed in a way as to avoid asset destruction and the nearby civilian settlement. This scenario should be conveyed by the media, but sadly it chooses to glorify terrorist acumen but not our men's bravery. Its not enough to wail over the martyrs. The media is bought by the same element who has perpetrated this sabotage. The army isnt doing a good job of conveying these points, while the public hope is tarnished every single day. You want to know about security of army bases around the world? USA has repeatedly said that Russia has about 8000 tactical nuclear weapons, and MOST of them are contained in "poorly secured military bases', that have not been given a satisfactory grade by the IAEA inspection team. And those are Nuclear weapons, not some surveillance aircrafts. Yet nobody questions the probability of Chechens stealing them for Al-Qaeda. In his book, Richard Marcinko, a celebrated ex-Navy Seal and instructor points out to several poorly guarded military bases in the US and has criticized the lax severely. In the same book, he also talks highly of Pakistan's SSG unit, with which he has trained, by the way. An average Pakistani perhaps cant be blamed for not knowing the above, because it is the media's job to inform the good and the bad both. Here, its just the bad and the ugly. At Rann of Kutch 1965 the army performed brilliantly. Later in 1965, it was a war of defense that the army performed satisfactorily. They embarked on a mission into Kashmir, fine they failed in achieving that. But its an army that tries. We often fail to realize that Pakistan has always faced a bitter enemy 10x its size, that people had prophesied, would have eaten away at it within the first 6 months. The Kargil operation also lacks objectivity. Even when Indians claim themselves that their entire military machinary failed at such a crucial time, we want to believe only the part where they claim in the end, "But you know, we still won". We were situated wayyy below and the Pakistanis had occupied the peak from where they were firing at us, but we still won. We were lifting away dead corpses every day in huge numbers, but anyways, we still won. We couldnt reach there on time, but anyways, we still won. Our intelligence was very faulty, but anyways, we won. Wake up and smell the coffee. There are no miracles and God isnt on their side. Nor does an annoyed ex-PM, who didnt have the guts to face prison and was seen crying inside, have the credibility to proclaim we were losing the war, and "I saved the day". Propaganda and imperialist pressure however, are very real. And thats what happened. I havent read Ayesha Siddiqa but the day i will, i shall get back to you.

Btw, above discussion apart, I think I saw your name in CSS qualifiers. Congrats, and good luck!

Well I shall,in the end,say,that u have a completely different perspective of viewing things.Because in the end it is only we,the Pakistanis,who claim that our army has performed credibly in 1965 and 1999.I wonder why are all the people from around 199 countries of the world so dumb that they can't see it..Either they are dumb not to see it,or we are entrenched so firmly in our denial that we don't want to accept the reality.I am a firm believer in the latter.And I do have arguments that I can go on and on and on to try and prove this.Just as an instance,You say 1965 war was a defensive one,while I say it is an offensive one.And believe me,the sheer weight of literature is on my side!But discussing and debating this wouldn't convince you,because u come from a completely different school of thought,and vice versa.I believe more in ground realities and final outcomes than rhetoric and intentions.If u are hell bent on proving this army as competitive,I am equally hell bent on maintaining that it isn't.And possibly none of us can run out of arguments.Lets have this argument with a neutral judge,who doesn't belong to Pakistan,India or the grand daddy US.Then this may be fruitful after all.Till then it is kind of futile.
Above disagreements apart,Thank you for the congratulations and best wishes.I sincerely hope I can contribute towards my country by the way of selfless service,truth and honesty.
Regards

__________________
I shall either find a way,or make one
'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa'

Hot discussion going on abt army.............i dun wanna be part of this debate may be as i m nt bale to kill ma emotions n be ruthless in evaluating the past n deciding the trend for fututre....but 1 thing about armed forces y not to blame ourselves then to blame armed forces..............armed forces are a part of thix country who are liabl to their headx n their headx to GOP who in ideal situation ix liable to masses but nothig ix perfect n so the flow gwts reversed we are anxwerabl to our parliamentarianx they to armed headx............but still the sect that is pressed even more hardly n harshly is the sub-ordinate class of armed forces............n abt credibility n worthiness of our armed forces we cannot n shud not try to mark warx of 1965 n 1971 independently keeping awl other factorx constant ....as in these two warx n most generally in any war itx nt only the test of the armed personnel n their policies n esp when it cumx to Pak we can never say that any war whether fought actively or passively can neva provide us an apparatus to evaluate the performances of armed personnelx.............letx even look at our own lives when being away frm a wrld comparable to dramax on star plus:P we cannot evaluate ourselves irrespectiv of scenarios then how cum we can giv verdict abt our armed forces knoeing the working of red tapes n our officialx searching for dollarx n thix n that
so no doubt may be there ix a lot that ix objectionable abt our armed forces but first we shud answer the questions raised against us as an individual n as a part of this society........
n particularly Respectabl mr.hamza we do lov Pak n wanna do smthing bt let me potray for u a scenario if u letx suppose are a Dc:P u can thnk me for imagining u DC:P
n then in case letx xay pertinent to a piece of land u sided in front of court with wht u say wax just bt court issues a verdict favouring unjust then ll i letx xay the aggrieved would be justified in blaming u n only u:O

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ŧєяα łuŧиαy ρя мαiи кЋusЋiyαи мαиαøu^иgє
bЋłα кя ŧαiяє jαƒαкαsЋi αρиαραøuиgє кЋαyαł иα кєяиα

True. None of us can convince each other. But neither is it a time for demarcating schools of thought. I wish Pakistanis would have come together on grounds congruent to each other. I am a strong proponent of my philosophy because i feel to get divided over the only institution that has some credibility remaining, means a progressive, rapid destruction for this country. We dont have time to experiment with democracy. 199 other nations dont officially claim our army has failed in all these ventures. Many today undermine the military capability of our nation; what would you call the opinion of Marcinko or other experts (dont want to give a list right now, but i can) like him who HAVE praised our army's professionalism? You dont need to reply, but give it a thought. At a time like this, we can surgically criticize their failings but lets not outright reject the institution's standing. Thats where we are wrong.

Sweetie, itll be easier to understand you if you write normally. And theres nothing wrong with speaking ur mind out, so please do take part in debates. Specially controversial ones. They bring out the best in you.

actually i cannt but still giv it a try...lolxxxxxx

__________________
ŧєяα łuŧиαy ρя мαiи кЋusЋiyαи мαиαøu^иgє
bЋłα кя ŧαiяє jαƒαкαsЋi αρиαραøuиgє кЋαyαł иα кєяиα

i want to ask something about the 3rd question.. you think SALMAN TASEER was not a blasphemer...?bravo man hats off for you.. liberals like you will bring our country back to the top..but still i feel sorry for guys like you who didn't have the prior knowledge of hadith but after watching two or three talk shows and 2 or 3 journals from the western journalist..you actually believe that you can give anyone a clean chitt..although this is extranous to the current topic but i can't stop myself from clapping..can oyu please mention a hadith ragarding this matter..??

SSSSsshhhh don't say anything bad about army..if you do you will be declared ANTI-PAKISTAN..as far as performance is concerned then i think it is their job..no other nation glorify its army as we do..we glorify it, becuase thats the way our army works...you can't break the TABOO of PAK FOJ ZINDABAD...because the moment you say anything bad about our army(CORUPPTION,SECURITY LAPSE) you will get the titile of anti -pakistan aur AMREEKI TATTU...Or"yehi tu woh chahtay hain"..."Yeh dushman ki chaal ha ...they need our support"..oo why the can't work properly without our "SHABAASH"..this is the main game of our establlishment which they are playing for the last 63 years..and the army is sucking our budget regardless of their performance

Why do we expect something great from army?They are of us to begin with.they aren't aliens.If we raise questions about their efficacy etc why don't we ask as to where do we as a nation or even as an individual stand?where do our politicians stand in the world?

True!Our Army has not been able to achieve anything remarkable,it has been busy devouring our grub.BUT,trust me they have always fared much better than our inept politicians.And that's why they are praiseworthy I guess.

As far as the war of 1965 is concerned,that was an offensive on the part of Pakistan.but don't we think that was inevitable?Army has at least tried to resolve the issue of Kashmir(aorta of pakistan),though by force for other ways had become futile.The offensive was inevitable.Have these politicians ever talked about the issue with an intent to solve it?NO!Never.

If Our Politicians have the balls to solve this issue of Kashmir,why don't they resolve it and show them(army) their way back home.They would not devour our grub any more.

I still wonder,If one can be bothered to ask these so called neutrals spectators* about INDO-PAK wars etc,why can't we ask them about our democratic Govts,about our nation etc?

[[neutrals spectators*:everything you search about Indo-pak wars or even relations on net,it's written by an indian,be it encycopledia(writerr.Ganguly) or wikipedia(the same Indian professors) or whatever.The politics gurus whom you call neutrals,take facts and figures exactly from the same sources,or they have their sources,ilham??]]

I don't love army,but I hate our politicians.