Opening of NATO supply routes is not a stand alone question or issue,there is more to it. our troops were killed is surely a point where a state should raise hue & cry at all fora as well as must take reasonable action against the transgressor state.this is an ideal situation but where Pakistan is standing??? do we have enough resources to carry on alone?can we bear the cost of isolation we want to create for ourselves? our economy is not that robust & diplomacy is toothless & there is growing nexus between US & India. On western side, Afghanistan is also not an ideal friend.our great friend China,too, is wary of our non-state actors in the backdrop of it's Muslim population & unrest in there areas. taking a path Iran chosen for herself will do no good. in this scenario all this means we are not interested in peace in our region (irrespective of the fact that people here want peace & pride too).moreover, foreign policy matters are under great control of military(it's not secret either) & they knew they had to open GLOC & they did.one more thing what about our 17 soldiers beheaded by militants ,having safe havens in both sides of the border,recently?
we must set the course right to take right actions on right time & to extract right response from others( state). what happened top our soldiers is condemn-able,how this matter was handled is too lamentable. but how we reached this low & how to get out of it is ponderable.only after mending all wrongs these sentiments of revenge or stern action would be great to display. i pray that this time may come soon ...amen

Islam doesnt tell us to forgive someone for the wrong he did so that he may do it again but its purpose of forgiving is to give him a chance to mend himself and not to repeat.
But , here We all Know that the same tragedy would happen again n again.

Beggars are never Choosers!!
But If u become a chooser then u no longer remain a beggar. A single good decision by the ruler turns the whole fate of a Nation & I guess suspension of Nato supply was one of those good decisions that cud have proved as a good step towards self-reliance.
Uptill when we would be relying on External aids?
They would impose sanctions on Pak ? And wud stop aiding us?
Let them do it - As it is said , 'he Knows not his own strength who hath not met adversity ( hardship)'.


Unless we alienate ourselves from US and stand as an independent nation we can never progress and get our dignity back.

Depending on US , fear of no resources and having robust economy - this is the actual thing which has brought us to this point today. An oppressed nation we are ( inspite of being sovereign), threatened by US or Nato every other day , being insulted is not something new ( we are now used to it) , standing as undignified nation among all others ( for being slaves of US).

The reason is we think we can do nothing on our own If US doesnt rain dollars upon us. C'mon why dont you give this country over to them ?
Since very beginning we are depending on US what have we acheived from their alliance ? What special have they done for us other than making us bankrupt ?
Every Nation has got thru such point of extreme chaos and downfall. We are Not alone in this regard. The only difference is that other nations relied on their ownselves and struggled hard not caring for what resources they have got and how robust their economy is , starting from zero. while we are expecting from others that they would come n do things for us. Shameful

Salam....

1.Islam do tell about boons of using wisdom & sense.
2.Choosers no longer stay beggars. Here question is about more than 180 million people rather than an individual or handful of individuals.
3.Closing of NATO GLOC at this juncture does not amount to some sort of watershed moment.
4. Sentiments are aside but business of state affairs need flawless planning,execution & then ACTION.
5. ideally,we should break these shackles of slavery but is not it pertinent to do this for better rather than further worsening of beleaguered situation.
6. Leave aside aid, sanctions can cripple our economy as our reliance upon crude oil imports is ever increasing. so imagine without this oil how we will flex our military muscles & for how long?
7. It is better to work on a effective/efficient strategy(after diligently chalking out 1) to gain favourable results to carve favourable atmosphere for our independent working.
8. My view is aid benefits elites but sanctions would hurt already marginalized section.
9. Even a prosperous nation cannot survive in hibernation. so it is not a good option to be a pariah state.
10. first set priorities,then work for their translation into reality.


i respect sentiments of all members who feel dejected over this issue.i only presented my views with no intention to prove some1 wrong or right.!!

regards

excerpts from column of Anjum Niaz

Another gentleman who promised us a better lifestyle is our reigning army chief. Perhaps he too has forgotten what he vowed to the people of Pakistan a year ago. General Kayani told his generals that he wanted the US aid meant for the military to be converted to civilian assistance. He thought that money being spent to support Pakistan’s defence forces was more urgently needed for “reducing the burden on the common man.”

Nobel sentiments; honourable aspirations; virtuous gesture. But what next? How does one know that the money for the army was indeed diverted to “reducing the burden on the common man” as pledged by the Army Chief? Can the GHQ give us a breakdown of the money that their chief has diverted towards the welfare of the common man? But first, let’s get a handle on the term ‘common man.’ Is he just a number?

Okay, the apology from Americans for killing our soldiers is necessary, but while ‘yes-you-will, no-we-won’t’ Tom and Jerry runaround continues, is it not in the fitness of things that General Kayani should be pushing the Americans to help us with our energy deficit? The Wapda chairman has already pronounced his verdict. Last summer, Shakeel Durrani spoke out loud and clear before the National Assembly Standing Committee on Water and Power. He said that load shedding will continue till 2018.
It is the seven-year itch, according to the man who should know.

[QUOTE=Umer;450193]Islam was very weak in earlier days.
Do you remember Ghazva e Badar?
300 (Don't remember the correct figure) people without weapons fought with 1000 fully armed men. Was that a wise decision?[/QUOTE]

313... lekin un musalmanu me kuch kerne ka lerna ka jazba tha apne mazhab k liye apne nabi k liye .. hamare hukmaran me bhi bht jazba he pase kamane ka or wo us k liye utni mehnat kere tou hain or kamyab bhi hote hain

[QUOTE=alihashmatkhoso;450192]a weak person wants to fight with strong one is this a wise decision?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Umer;450193]Islam was very weak in earlier days.
Do you remember Ghazva e Badar?
300 (Don't remember the correct figure) people without weapons fought with 1000 fully armed men. Was that a wise decision?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Shai;453939]313... lekin un musalmanu me kuch kerne ka lerna ka jazba tha apne mazhab k liye apne nabi k liye .. hamare hukmaran me bhi bht jazba he pase kamane ka or wo us k liye utni mehnat kere tou hain or kamyab bhi hote hain[/QUOTE]

I do not deny your statement. But the context in which the discussion with alihashmatkhoso was taking place, I just wanted to prove his statement wrong that great wars and battles were those where weak took on the strong and taught them a lesson. If alihashmatkhoso's statement had some logic behind it, then for example Bosnian and Chechnyan Muslims wouldn't be fighting with Serbia and Russia because it wasn't wise as per statement of alihashmatkhoso. Muslims wouldn't be going to Ghazva e Badar as per statement of alihashmatkhoso because it wasn't wise. Even Bangladesh cricket team wouldn't be playing against Australian cricket team because they are weaker than Australian team and according to alihashmatkhoso it isn't wise. But none of that happens. Weak always take on the strong and historically famous battles and wars are those where weak defeated a strong opposition.

[QUOTE=Umer;453957]I do not deny your statement. But the context in which the discussion with alihashmatkhoso was taking place, I just wanted to prove his statement wrong that great wars and battles were those where weak took on the strong and taught them a lesson. If alihashmatkhoso's statement had some logic behind it, then for example Bosnian and Chechnyan Muslims wouldn't be fighting with Serbia and Russia because it wasn't wise as per statement of alihashmatkhoso. Muslims wouldn't be going to Ghazva e Badar as per statement of alihashmatkhoso because it wasn't wise. Even Bangladesh cricket team wouldn't be playing against Australian cricket team because they are weaker than Australian team and according to alihashmatkhoso it isn't wise. But none of that happens. Weak always take on the strong and historically famous battles and wars are those where weak defeated a strong opposition.[/QUOTE]
I just want to add to umer's argument, it is reality that history remembers only the extraordinaries like Karbala Event, it is the principled stand by Hazarat Imam Hussain not to bound but to fight against evil. why Imam Hussain A.S not thought to compromise. so in this context we as a nation must fight for our sovereignty and our rights.

[QUOTE=Atif Supermacy;454709]I just want to add to umer's argument, it is reality that history remembers only the extraordinaries like Karbala Event, it is the principled stand by Hazarat Imam Hussain not to bound but to fight against evil. why Imam Hussain A.S not thought to compromise. so in this context we as a nation must fight for our sovereignty and our rights.[/QUOTE]
dear please read ( a short history of Islam by Mazhar ul haq,) incident of karbala i think it is enough to reply your post.

I had a long discussion with a US Diplomate After that discussion I made a Conclusion that it is only the Military who is resisting on this issue, that not to resume the supply, asking for apology, and making sure that there would be no incident like salala in future.

Our Govt was on knees, All Guns were towards the COAS Kayani, and the new Spy Chief.

Finally Nato Supply resumed. WHY?

Only Reason! Weak Political leadership, only military can't fight on every Jack! Weak Economy is also a Major problem.

It was the only TRUMP Card - which Pakistan has lost now...

[QUOTE=alihashmatkhoso;454739]dear please read ( a short history of Islam by Mazhar ul haq,) incident of karbala i think it is enough to reply your post.[/QUOTE]
what this for..would you please elaborate your point. do you think Imam Hussain compromised or it was just an accident. we are sovereign people and we stand by principles.