haaahah sincere!!!! bro i think they are only concerned with themselves. ..

hahahah good zhaib not themselves but with thier banks...
pearlys ur alll points are vaild..
Alihashmt....bro look with single person no one can changes these all basic whick infulence in the bodies of polictions like blood.if we want to change we must together and make a revolution like Egypt and other countries not like IMRAN KHAN who looking for hope of next prime minister...all crises are made in our country to astray the attention of nation tu govt crruption...

Now if we look at the first tenure of PPP' ZAB made ppp when he was left the forigen minister and he said that i left it fr nation and nation motto n Kashmir but infact Ayub Khan kicked him to ministry..in 1970 with Conitution of Pakistan leading party will be able to made govt at both sides why he said'' UDHER TUM EDHER HUM''. is this loyilty with pakistan.the result of this sologon' we seeing as Bangladesh...90000 soliders realsed by him but also ther surrendurd due him...and he abused army in his tenure.

After having gone through the discussion, a thing blinked in mind, rather a question,

Are the people of Pakistan (include everybody/me/us ) sincere with the Pakistan?

For determining sincerity of people, one can see the greater protocol/ a warm welcome given to our ex Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gillani at Multan! There is one thing from two whether PPP sincere with Pakistan or whether people of the country are sincere with Pakistan? Perhaps the greater dilemma for the country is the fact that later assertion is more correct thn the former...

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;452397]After having gone through the discussion, a thing blinked in mind, rather a question,

Are the people of Pakistan (include everybody/me/us ) sincere with the Pakistan?

For determining sincerity of people, one can see the greater protocol/ a warm welcome given to our ex Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gillani at Multan! There is one thing from two whether PPP sincere with Pakistan or whether people of the country are sincere with Pakistan? Perhaps the greater dilemma for the country is the fact that later assertion is more correct thn the former...[/QUOTE]

Good point, these are those people who sale their 'sincerity' for greed of little benefits and vote to corrupt people. Every one has a price tag with him. Here I would like to quote the wordings of Hasan Nisar, ''we are crowd of people, not a nation''. However I strongly disagree with his various arguments, but here he argued very exact about Pakistani public. Most of the people in this crowd are not loyal to Pakistan.

[QUOTE=Bostan;451271]PPP loyal with pakistan????
if we lookback at 3 periods of her govt.??
can we get any loyalty form ppp?
whats ur point of view?[/QUOTE]

:thinking
I want to highlight the big achievements of ppp govt.
Various popular amendments in our constitution.
NFC award.
Good relations with neighbor countries, specially trying to giving MFN status to India.

As far as sovereignty is concerned than who has not given yes to USA?? From zia to present govt. Before present govt, the Musharraf was doing the same. Today we are paying for the mistakes of past, we have not another option. It was zia who helped USA, so today we have to follow the tradition. So this tradition will keep going whether it will be zardari or Mr clean. If we are ready to accept USA's scholarships then why we are not ready to help them in eradicating terrorism?? the same terrorism which is fueling fire in our country, from macro economy to single home of poor family is victim of this same terrorism.
And as far as corruption is concerned then who is clean in Pakistan?? You will fine only few of people who are corruption free.
PPP has given many sacrifices for Pakistan, who has given the sacrifices other than ppp?? it was the BB who brought democracy in this country, who even knowing about all the threat came to Pakistan. Mushraf and BB for broader benefits made the deal. And only because of that deal Mr sharif got the chance to came in Pakistan. Please do not ignore the biggest sacrifices of BB.
I want to conclude that no doubt this govt. failed to deliver but it made revolutionary chances in the country which even baray baray log past men nahen kr sakay. No doubt it is hard to perform in hostile environment but it has succeeded in completing four years. So let the ppp govt. complete it tenure because it deserve.
I think the PPP and loyalty can be used.

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;452397]
For determining sincerity of people, one can see the greater protocol/ a warm welcome given to our ex Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gillani at Multan! There is one thing from two whether PPP sincere with Pakistan or whether people of the country are sincere with Pakistan? Perhaps the greater dilemma for the country is the fact that later assertion is more correct thn the former...[/QUOTE]

Over-centralized democracies main aisa hee hona hai, muqami log aise shakhs ko buhut bara hero samajhna shru kar dete hain aur us pe pride karte hain jo un ke darmian se uth ke state ke ministerial yaa chief executive kee office tak puhunch jaaye :dd. Parliamentary Democracy aur Centralization ko aik saath nahin chalana chahiye. agar parliamentary democracy chalani hai to local governments ziada se ziada aur is qadar autonomous, self reliant aur baa-akhtiar hon ke woh central state ko support karen aur responsible hon na ke khud center kee madad se chalen. Local governments ke pass apni police, legislative authority aur judicial system ho aur tax collection aur contracting authority ho, aur un ke muamlat main federal yaa provincial government kaa amal dakhal bilkul na ho. aur agar center pe hee ziada reliance rakhni hai to democracy ke bajaye center main aik adad ta hayat monarch yaa dictator bitha den aur sab us kee sunen beth ke phir chup kar ke :dd.

awam kabhi bhi over-centralized democratic setup main kisi kee accountability nahin kar sakte ;), kiyunke un ko kabhi samajh hee nahin aaye gee ke un ko kia aur kahan se lagi, kis ne lagayi, kisi apne ne lagayi yaa kisi ghair ne lagayi, aur kiun lagayi :haha.

[QUOTE=Bostan;451271]PPP loyal with pakistan????
if we lookback at 3 periods of her govt.??
can we get any loyalty form ppp?
whats ur point of view?[/QUOTE]

[B]To expect 'Loyalty' from this lot of politicians is like expecting 'Cordiality' from Satan for human beings.

Regards,
[/B]

I think PPP is sincere. When you go through history, Z.A Bhutto gave constitution which is a major step by the PPP which was need of an hour in that time and even today.
We cannot forgave the nuclear technology introduced by Bhutto and continued by Shaheed B.B. We also encouraged the SHAHEED BENAZIR bHUTTO who produced Energy for the country. No one other than her produced a single megawatt. P.P.P always work for the betterment of the country but agencies and establishment never allowed to govern. When ever P.P.P comes the country is suffering major crises.

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;452397]After having gone through the discussion, a thing blinked in mind, rather a question,

Are the people of Pakistan (include everybody/me/us ) sincere with the Pakistan?

For determining sincerity of people, one can see the greater protocol/ a warm welcome given to our ex Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gillani at Multan! There is one thing from two whether PPP sincere with Pakistan or whether people of the country are sincere with Pakistan? Perhaps the greater dilemma for the country is the fact that later assertion is more correct thn the former...[/QUOTE]
I second Muhammad TS Awan, every single pakistani including me, is not sincere with Pakistan. we failed to behave like a nation. we rather support our regional races not as Pakistani.

"Sincerity" word is not in our country's politics. The recent dual nationality bill is enough to show the level of sincerity in our political parties. I will not say that PPP is lacking sincerity, even other parties are not having a bit of sincerity for Pakistan. They are equally responsible in the last 3 years performance of PPP led government.