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  #1  
Old Thursday, September 27, 2012
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Default Welfare State?

welfare state, concept of government in which the state plays a key role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of its citizens. It is based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. (Encyclopedia Britannica)

is the concept of a Welfare State myth or reality??
Even the countries that are supposed to be a paradise for human beings, do not satisfy the definition of a welfare state.
Why are we striving for a thing that is not and will not be achieved.

Last edited by Arain007; Thursday, September 27, 2012 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Avoid using Caps
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  #2  
Old Thursday, September 27, 2012
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Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta View Post


is the concept of a WELFARE STATE myth or reality??
Even the countries that are supposed to be a paradise for human beings, do not satisfy the definition of a welfare state.
Why are we striving for a thing that is not and will not be achieved.
We don't need to be Einstein to figure it out.

Simple Scale: Countries with the high per capita income should be considered Welfare States for their majority of citizens enjoy insurmountable Pleasure & Great Standard of life.

Top 10 in the list:


Country Income per Capita (US $)
1.
Norway
43,400
2.
Switzerland
40,680
3.
United States
37,870
4.
Japan
34,180
5.
Denmark
33,570
6.
Sweden
28,910
7.
United Kingdom
28,320
8.
Finland
27,060
9.
Ireland
27,010
10.
Austria
26,810



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I think a perfect Welfare State isn't really possible, but the model followed by Scandinavian countries is pretty close to it.

Also, please keep in mind that countries like Sweden, Norway etc have very high tax to GDP ratios (48% for Sweden) which allows for a much fairer distribution of wealth.
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Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta View Post

is the concept of a Welfare State myth or reality??
Even the countries that are supposed to be a paradise for human beings, do not satisfy the definition of a welfare state.
Why are we striving for a thing that is not and will not be achieved.
Welfare state is an abstract term, in reality everyone has different perception of what constitutes welfare of human kind. For example if you will ask a devout christian he would tell you a totally different version of paradise (or a welfare state ) than a liberal, socialist or communist would do; or if you ask a devout muslim he would tell you a totally different story than anyone else . The very basic requirements of welfare is atleast fair, indiscriminate and equal access to health, social security and economic means necessary for survival, and in some countries (as in the case of Scandinavian countries mentioned above) these basic requirements are fulfilled to a greater extent. However if you count ideal happiness, satisfaction and cohesive society to also be a part of a welfare state than divergent perceptions of reality and competition is inherent in human nature, therefore an ideal welfare state would forever remain a dream of everyone, atleast during their lifetime, Allah (SWT) knows best what Jannah He has prepared for good people .
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Old Thursday, September 27, 2012
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we are living in era of capitalism and communism. both have different approaches but as welfare state is concerned its look totally difficult to have welfare state. as nations didn't like other nations to become socially welfared nation. no country in this era has fully applied the system. Islam has proposed the similar system of "masawat", but we didn't give it a glance for state.
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Originally Posted by Atif Supermacy View Post
we are living in era of capitalism and communism. both have different approaches but as welfare state is concerned its look totally difficult to have welfare state. as nations didn't like other nations to become socially welfared nation. no country in this era has fully applied the system. Islam has proposed the similar system of "masawat", but we didn't give it a glance for state.
The closest to the Islamic model are the Scandinavian countries. And they are secular. I've always said that we need to get out of these debates about small things like Burka, Alcohol etc and look at the big picture. Islam dictates that the distribution of wealth is a must for any welfare states and the Scandinavian countries are doing just that.
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Old Thursday, September 27, 2012
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Originally Posted by Invincible View Post
[B]We don't need to be Einstein to figure it out.

Simple Scale: Countries with the high per capita income should be considered Welfare States for their majority of citizens enjoy insurmountable Pleasure & Great Standard .
Per capita Income does not actually represent the real income distribution in a country. So it cnt be taken as the only tool to declare a country as welfare state.

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Originally Posted by Hassan02 View Post
The closest to the Islamic model are the Scandinavian countries. And they are secular. I've always said that we need to get out of these debates about small things like Burka, Alcohol etc and look at the big picture. Islam dictates that the distribution of wealth is a must for any welfare states and the Scandinavian countries are doing just that.
yes I agree, but in real sense these countries do not represent a welfare state. Alcohol and prostitution, moral decay and disrespect are also blot to welfare. Yes the concept of Welfare varies form nation to nation but we can't ignore the fact that If there has to be a welfare state for Muslims, it needs to have moral element. even secular need moral welfare, not as an ecclesiastical duty but as an earthly benefit may be.
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Old Thursday, September 27, 2012
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Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta View Post
Per capita Income does not actually represent the real income distribution in a country. So it cnt be taken as the only tool to declare a country as welfare state.
This is one of the giant & Sound indicator of a welfare state.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta View Post
yes I agree, but in real sense these countries do not represent a welfare state. Alcohol and prostitution, moral decay and disrespect are also blot to welfare. Yes the concept of Welfare varies form nation to nation but we can't ignore the fact that If there has to be a welfare state for Muslims, it needs to have moral element. even secular need moral welfare, not as an ecclesiastical duty but as an earthly benefit may be.
You quoted: welfare state, concept of government in which the state plays a key role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of its citizens. It is based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. (Encyclopedia Britannica)

Is there any word 'morality or ethics' there? Dont confuse it.
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Old Thursday, September 27, 2012
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Alcohol and prostitution, moral decay and disrespect are also blot to welfare. [/QUOTE]

No they aren't. A BASIC welfare model needs to include the following:
Justice,
Rule of Law/Security of life and property
Education
Health Care
Affordable food.

Everything else is just icing on the cake. If you are more concerned about prostitution than about people dying just because they can't afford treatment, then you really need to set your priorities straight.
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Old Thursday, September 27, 2012
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Default Welfare State

Concept of welfare state is an all encompassing one. It is not limited to any specific aspect of life. Economically, a welfare stae guarantees equitable distribution and allocation of resouces. She ensures that all of its citizen are delt at equal footing when it comes to ecomic opportunities. Similarly, the prospect of concentration of wealth in few hand is guarded against by such state.
On political front, people are given opportunity to have their say in political affairs. Citizen of that state can express themselves without any fear or obstruction.
On social sphere, a social state helps create social harmony, integrity and peace by taking multiple steps. Provisions of facilities like health and education are also ensured.
It is hard to say that in true sense of terms any welfare state exists in the world, however with high living standards and enormous spending on sociaal welfare fields, some west European and Scandinavian countries have come close to the defination of welfare state.
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