Science was not involved on either side because science simply did not exist in the Arabian society at that time. But Prophet certainly encouraged and used unique and innovative techniques in his wars. Just take Ghazv-e-Khandaq, as an example, where he had no problems following the example of "Kafir" Persians to dig up a ditch against the invaders. And there are a lot of other examples.

So you are saying that it was the sword and force that caused the spread of Islam? We are debating about the intentions of the people who invaded India, not whether Islam benefited from it or not (although it certainly did).

BTW, Islam had arrived in Indian sub-continent before bin Qasim, thanks to the traders and common preachers. It would’ve continued to flourish in that way (much better way) had not bin Qasim invaded it on the instructions of Hajjaj bin Yousuf (who was an evil person in his own right) after his economic interests were threatened by the pirates.

In a nuclear age, the conventional battle-fields and methods have ceased to exist. Bombing an entire city in a minute doesn't allow much scope for chivalry, does it?

My dear friend, I happen to be a hafiz-e-Qur’an (I mentioned in a previous post that I studied in a madrassah for several years). And I’m lucky enough that I didn’t simply learn it like a parrot as the norm goes in our Pakistan. Instead, I read its translation and I also read the commentaries, both modern and classics. Our house was stuffed with religious books of all sorts, my father being in Jamat-e-Islami (something that I previously mentioned as well). So, while I don’t claim to be an “aalim” at all, I do believe I have more religious knowledge that average Pakistanis who, unfortunately, have been tricked and coerced into blind following by mullahs under state patronage. I also like to read books written by “kafirs”, unlike most Pakistanis who either simply don’t read or confine themselves to religious books.

I know that is a verse from Qur’aan. And I also assure you that there are more verses of Qur’aan stressing on the importance of knowledge, on feeding the poor, on educating people and improving their lives, on acting with compassion – have we been following any of these at all? Thousands of Pakistanis die every year due to terrorism, hunger, poverty and ill-management, and all we want is more weapons and wars. Is this what Qur’aan teaches? I assure you, it doesn't teach this; only ignorance begets this attitude.

We already have our horses ready with nuclear weapons and a powerful military (who merely likes to invade its own people and derail democracy every few years and has faced shameful defeats in wars). Now can we move on to more basic/essential aspects and improve the standards of living of the people? Hazrat Umar didn’t say that he would be answerable to God if he lost a war or if there were apostates in his kingdom. He, however, did say that he would be answerable even if a dog dies hungry in his kingdom, let alone a human. We mock the basics of Islam and humanity and want to impose the advanced concepts, an attitude which can only result in grave problems, the kinds we face today.

So Yazeed was a pious Islamic Caliph, is that it? And subsequent “Caliphs” who murdered/suppressed their opponents and indulged in all sorts of debaucheries were pious “caliphs”, is that it? And btw, what is this system of Caliphate? I’d really love to know. Can you educate me a little on this?

P.S. I don't understand how someone can undermine the importance of economic and scientific progress when virtually everything we use in our lives is due to very science. Even the nuclear weapons that we are so proud of are an outcome of science. Take science out of our lives and we are back to mud-houses and horses.

As you said science was not involved on either side but still the kufar were 1000 and they were equipped with the combat best equipment of the time still 313 overwhelmed them and they couldnt found the way to run it was nat science which made the Muslims todo so it was their belief on Allah(SWT) and their wish fro die a martyr....

so you are saying that the Muslim invaders were intruders and muderers who just attacked subcontinent for wealth..from where you have read this about them ??i am looking forward to read it and correct my knowledge any reference book ?? love to read it
If Muhammad bin Qasim was a intruder then people of subcontinent must have hated him when he attacked but the truth is that they started turning towards islam because his mujahidins were not rapping their women and not slaughtering the children it was their attitude which had a long lasting affect on the locals..as far as haja bin yousaf is concerned i accept that he was very harsh but only to those who were imminent threat to isalm......
By chivalry i didnt mean that we should get our horses and our swords and attack kufar..i tried to say that war is not over and will never be as it is mentioned that we should be ready for war all the time.. war is same but the way to fight has changed but still if Muslims get united than there will be dark day for US and its allies..Muslims can push US and west back to stone age but only when Muslims are united in the shade of a single flag and this cannot happen in democracy unfortunately.....
now this shows a clear view that why you are so obssessed with jihad and Muslims conquests in subcontinent and all aroud the globe..well than ask your father why several ameers of jamat participated in jihad in afghanistan as russia was a superpower and pakistan was not even a nuclear power at that time it was not the science which tear apart Russia the world superpower into a state which will never rise again it was the belief of mujahidins in shahadat
so we should not get our horses ready thanks for opening my eyes

we have seen democracy for the last five years and i can bet that even the animals of Pakistan are thinking to say democracy to back off we cannot fulfill our basic needs with this corrupt man made system..democracy is not more than 200 years old its just a lolypop for Pakistani people..dont compare caliph with leaders of pakistan


so you are a hafiz e Quran still you are asking me about caliphate..dont make fun of caliphate..one Islamic state in the globe having a single caliph responsible to implement islamic laws..unite the ummah and not allow any intruders like jews,hindus and christians to build slaughter houses in kashmir,afghanistan,bosnia,palestine...it was the khilafat in which america used to pay the caliph khiraj so that their trade ships could pass through Muslim territories and even france was asking caliph for help in war..


Dear who is saying that just wipe out science from our life its a basic necessity we should progress in every field but we should not let anyone to kill students of our madrassas in drone attacks our soldiers and our sovereignty and let kufar to invade us in sleep of remiss..hope that you will once again consult your father on this topic of getting our horses ready

whatever you have stated is Gospel truth

AoA

Just glanced over many posts of this thread, and trying to put some points for the consumption of fellow members, however, there may be ones own thinking and not necessarily linked to any school of thought or any doctrine;

I). As already highlighted by many members, there are quite a reasons for lagging behind of Muslims and that the Muslims are under subjugation in various forms. One of such reason is of course incompetence of Muslim leaders and Muslims themselves. They remained busy for their internal intrigues and others (many European nations) came, plundered the wealth, took them to their countries to build their own economies. UK did the same, France did the same, Italy did the same and so on. So there was nothing bad if Ghaznavi plundered the wealth of India to develop palaces or centers of education or arts in his capital.

II) Islam is a complete code of system and provides knowledge for every thing. There are lot of narrations in Holy Quran which are now established by the scientific theories. Islam teaches about the social norms and dealings with other, which made them distinctive, that was the reason that now the largest Muslim country Indonesia never received any army rather the traders and merchants were able to convert them just because of their good dealings and etiquettes.

III) Muslims have lost their identity and individuality, which is major cause of their failure. They often keep fighting with each other and purchase weapons from other countries and help them improve their economies at the same time disturbing their own economies. There are lot of examples in Middle East, Iran Iraq in 80s, Saudia Iran in current time, Syria, Jordan, Bahrian etc etc...

IV) It is easy to be a Muslim and simultaneously not easy to be a Muslim. ! For a non-Muslim, who drinks , eat pork and live freely with girls/boys, Christianity appeals more then Islam. Though in Christianity these things are also not allowed, but they do not care for it. So for an atheist, if he/she want to get some religion, he/she will prefer Christianity over Islam because of these barriers. Material and short term benefits get more attractions.. Then there are many Muslims who drink , do not offer namaz and do every other thing. While there are other Muslims who do not drink and offer namaz so a Muslim who do not drink, offer namaz and do not have boy/girl friend, will get attraction by other non-Muslims and they will consider it a strange behavior and naturally they may not get liking to it! and consider it fundamentalism or hardliner sort of thing.... Like some sahabi said that Islam/shariah is like going through a way of thorny bushes without getting scratches at ones clothes.... Very much difficult thing.. ....

IV) I think, there is some natural hatred aspect as well. Turkey has not been getting full rights of EU and one of the reason is its having Muslim majority things. Then East Timor, South Sudan, Albania etc are some of the examples where those countries were divided just to cut down the Muslim share, while there are issues at Palestine, Kashmir, Myanmar etc which are still un attended ... These things also raise questions in minds of Muslims so it is natural for them to resort for aggression. One can even not wall a cat, then how can one aspect to wall humans without any retaliation thing!... Palestine issue, Kashmir issue and then Afghanistan thing are the biggest flash points which linked Muslims to terrorism. And we can trace their roots, these goes to the West/Non Muslims. Thanks to media propaganda things that even Muslims were suppressed, they are lamented as terrorists without going deep into the root causes. ...

V) Yes Saudia has remained pumping funds for many things through out world and the foremost being support of Masajid and Maddrassahs. Libya was also doing it and Iran also doing in various parts of world... What is bad in it! Have we ever counted missionary schools, churches and societies linked with these Churches only in our country!!! There are many and they get huge funding also, this is not only in Pakistan, but also in many other countries of the world. As per certain reports, in Africa, the number of Muslims is decreasing while at the same time, number of Christians are increasing! why thanks to the missionary support and funds. Then what is bad if Saudia is also support Maddrassahs or construction of Masajid. I think they are doing much less, they should increase ambit of their charity works in other parts of the world.

VI) Yes we need more scientists, academicians, economists etc, but we also need religious scholars who can teach and preach to other Muslims to stop hatred and do good... And we also need soldiers and armies, because every developed nation is keeping it, there was no need for France to attack in Mali, or there was no need for Italian or Australian army to be part of forces in Afghanistan. Even it is heard that the Prince of UK participated in the war in Afghanistan. If they all are keeping it and proud on it, then why should we not... During Jehad, every Muslim was given a signal for the war, we all read it in books about early Islam at the time of AnHazrat PBUH..... It is also heard that at times ink of scholar is more important than blood of a martyr. Who is that scholar, where is that scholar! Glad to read a post by a fellow member that he is Hafize Quran and a well read person, God bless you. hope and wish that these energies are used for the propagation of the religion in good faith and these traits/blessings will not be left in heart to be rusted.

May ALLAH bless you people, amin.

Regards

__________________
'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

Muslims actually lost their ancestors legacy , the major cause of our downfall.

!Muslims? . Muslims who are not united , different sects ,different castes . Whole system within Muslim is now seeming to be based on hate . Muslims as i am , muslims as uou are , we are . Everyone is busy in pulling others leg . We cannot understand whar discussion means , we are fond of turning discussion into Debates . Are we capable of assuring it to ourselve that really we are complete Muslims . See our media , see our everyday life . We can better judgeourselves that why it is easy to ransack and destory Muslims than others .

__________________
''Sufficient for us is Allah , and He is the best Disposer of affairs" Al-Quran

why only muslims are under attack

because only muslims are sticked to thier original form of Holy Book
....Only muslims have codes of life still secured in written form which can meddle with inrernational systems
.....Only muslims are "reluctant" to the evils of modern age
.....Only muslims have a tendency-remember i did not say capability- to eradicate non believers instead of just disliking


Why the attack is successful


the descent of the ummah was self brought and self sufficient to prevail following are few of the reasons amongst many

1. Disunity
2. Social lag
3. Educational lag
4. Lack of leadership
5. West propaganda
6. Natural process of urooj o zawaal ( many may not agree)
7. Territorial nationalism brought death to religious nationalism (study iqbal)
8. Non realistic nostalgic approach
9. Religious obsession (no offence plz)
10.Disloyal aristocrates

__________________
We shouldn't persecute people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.