No! bureaucracy is not a problem at all. Everything is fine & we are progressing by leaps & bonds & soon we'll become Asian tigers & "Islami Qilla".

Just read somewhere that Thar-coal project was ruined by a group of bureaucrats who are working on the payroll of petroleum mafia & rental power plant owners.

Also read some where that Yamaha Japan which had formally requested govt. of Pakistan & even had met President Zardari just to request again & complain against a group of bureaucrats as Yamaha wanted approval & facilitation for establishment of a heavy bike manufacturing plant in Pakistan. A group of bureaucrats working on payroll of DYL & Atlas Honda created so many hurdles & raised so many objections that even Zardari could do anything though he had made many promises during his visit to Japan.

Lekin nai aisa kuch nhi hai... all is fine & this all is propaganda. Bureaucrats & Generals are supreme & our system is flawless, all other nations are plotting conspiracies against us because we are the only Islamic nuclear power & shining like star. Actually they are jealous from us as we are going to be the next super power.


Well miss, solution is simple, Instead of hiring power hungry people, who just want to enjoy privileges & rule their fellow country men, in the name of bureaucracy & then training them to run different departments, why not hire technocrats on merit basis & teach them bureaucracy. They will be much more sincere to their departments & will work more efficiently for obvious reasons. In other words, the whole selection & recruitment process should be completely redefined in which, while selecting a candidate, the first priority should be given to the technical capabilities & passion/loyalty to one's discipline or department for which he is being selected. A true technocrat who loves his field cannot harm his own department.

Sir i agree , but it means that Bureaucracy is a problem 'FOR' Pakistan .

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''Sufficient for us is Allah , and He is the best Disposer of affairs" Al-Quran

Brother, I never said that "bureaucracy" is a problem for Pakistan, but problems are with bureaucracy & the way bureaucrats are selected & groomed in Pakistan. Just minor manipulation of words could completely change the meaning of my opinion.

So all I wanted to say is that Pakistan needs huge reforms & major overhauling of this institution. Since this forum is for future bureaucrats so I am discussing it here.

Secondly, I find this as the lamest & most retarded excuse produced by bureaucrats that politicians are responsible for politicizing bureaucracy. No one could share the responsibility of one's own deeds. Putting blames on others be it an institution or an individual has become our national excuse. "Shaitan ne mujhe behka dia"... ager is daleel ko maan lia jaey to koi jahannum mei nhii jana chahye. After all everyone is himself responsible for his failures or achievements.

Sorry for interference but it seems important, The concept of technocracy in the present world seems to be supposed. In addition, as you know, every sword has its own scabbard. In every state each department has its own ascendency beyond which it becomes blind, and often switch to institutional imbalance if it goes beyond that limit, already one of the biggest problems of Pakistan.

1. These are the power hungry bureaucrats who use such power for the control ill-minded fellow country men and operate large departments.

2. If you want technocrats to be hired and teach them bureaucracy, to some extent i agree with you but these are the bureaucrats who know how to make use of technocrats.

3. technocrats are the officials who are elected in nominal proportion and differ from bureaucrats in terms of the problem-solving mindset . that,s why senate of Pakistan has only 4

4. Technocrats use technical skills (use brain) and shape technology of various requirements, while bureaucrats, selected through merit, make policies (use mind) and implement them for the solution of problems and in this way administer large departments staffed with non-elected experienced officials .

5. If the system of selection and recruitment is redefined in Pakistan technocrats still will have only technical mind and not cognitive one ,which becomes the attribute of bureaucrats after a long journey and experience gained throughout their career.

in previous post, as you said bureaucrats are working on payroll , may be its true but not all bureaucrats are alike, and you can not propose to replace the whole bureaucracy with hypothetical technocracy because of hypothetical reasons ( two or three ...as you have mentioned).

So bureaucracy is the most suitable form of administration rather than technocracy for Pakistan.

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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts" Winston Churchill

Kindly ignore my above post & consider this one as I was unable to edit that suitably in due time.

I am not against bureaucracy rather all I am saying is that hire technocrats with additional good leadership qualities as well & teach them bureaucracy, instead of directly hiring bureaucrats. If our system of bureaucracy is so good, then why we are revolving around in a circle for last 66 yrs? Any answer?

I find it extreme irrational rather ridiculous that Education or IT department is being headed by a bureaucrat. In private sector every department is headed by the most technical person but also having additional qualifications or additional managerial skills.

Ever heard that Chief technical officer of Ufone/Telenor or Microsoft is a third class mediocre bureaucrat having degree in agriculture sciences, or the the Chief financial officer of Nestle is a simple B.A but having long management & bureaucracy experience? Why? Think about it mate! The thing which seams funny to us for private sector is most prestigious for us when it comes to govt. Because private sector organisations aim at progress by aligning themselves with the latest management trends rather than on feeding parasites. Non-productive employees or departments are either laid off/shut down or restructured to make them efficient because they have to make money for their survival. But since this is govt. so no one bothers to question the productivity of thousands while the state is failing miserably, because their salaries & other lavish expenses are borne by poor tax paying public & not by some private customer who demands services as per the cost he pays.

once i heard from MR. Najam Sethi he told that after the downfall of second term of PPP govt i met Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto in london and asked a question off the screen that during ur govt u had made some agreements with some foreign companies to run the thar coal project but nothing moved a single inch, what were the reasons. on this question BB said that the reality is that there are some forces inside of our bureaucracy who threatened the companies and they ran away instead of investing there. it is correct to say that there are various problems with our bureaucracy but it cannot be replaced with technocracy. there are huge differences between a technocrat and a bureaucrat. though it is psychological, social, or professional and others.
bureaucrats are not just third class mediocre just B.A pass, in css results reports any one can find that there are maximum ratio of engineering and medical graduates who pass the exam and after that they have to cross from a tough training of two years. and other thing is that the exam procedure and level is not so dump that anyone can jump into our bureaucracy.
some reforms are needed in our bureaucracy as the need of the time, so a blend or team work of bureaucrats and technocrats can perform a better job and result oriented.

While going through this thread, I have realized that the main problem of Pakistan is that our priorities are different.
Rather than agreeing on main problems we start to fight and one's shared problem is not problem for another. At the end what happens, we start to fight. If we are not ready to agree on the problems then I am sorry, we can never even solve a single problem.
I think this is also main problem that we are not in the consensus over problems. There are various problems which are present from various years and are increasing by many fold but even today we are not agreed upon them.
For one terrorism is not a big issue (because they did not lose their family memeber), but in reality it is.

For uper class loadsheding is not really a big probem but for middle class it is.

For one shortage of water is not big issue, but for a landlord it is.

Corruption is not big problem for those who enjoy corruption, but is for those who pay.

For ulema population is not an issue but it is.

For majority of people drone attacks is big problem but not get bother when those terrorists who are under drone attacks, attacks schools, army, common and people.

For one poor state of education is biggest problem but for other it is least important.

For people like me media not doing enough. Media twisting the reality, but other people believe what is shown in media.

And for many foreign forces are the only reason of problems but in reality we are weak and we do not do anything for people then how can we expect from world. We are not doing anything for earthquack victims, we are not well prepared to face any nature disaster.

And by writing problems we forget that we are also part of problems. Everyone including me is not doing what one is supposed to do. And who will solve the problems. And before solving problems we have to agree upon the real problems of Pakistan.

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For me it is enough that I am different from others.

Now you submitted to the logical/rational point, The Development of this country and budding efficiency/output of the institutions of the govt of PK could only be possible if right people are elected for right positions,i.e every sword has its own scabbard, Right? Technocrats should be given enough part/share in the govt as per your desire, but they can not replace bureaucrats. As u said in one of ur previous posts that technocrats should be given the training of bureaucrats because our bureaucracy is hypocrite and insincere with its job, u also quoted two examples that they work on payroll. And now you admit that i am not against bureaucracy, which is my point that technocrats can not replace bureaucrats rather technocrats should be given adequate proportion in govt, which will be in the best interest of this country and will prove a positive change, in case they are properly employed/exploited by the bureaucrats.


Technocrats must given like education/IT headship but under the supervision of bureaucrats because many issues/problem in these departments are not always technical and require profound solution. So a combination of B & T would serve in the best interest of the country in general and concerned department in particular, Especially if headed by B.


Why you yourself intend to take CSS exam and become a Bureaucrat.

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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts" Winston Churchill

brother on one side you are not against bureaucracy and on other side you are criticizing it and you yourself willing to be a bureaucrat.....i'm not saying system is clean or perfect but if i'm intend to be a bureaucrat i will not criticize it.....technocrats and bureaucrats with technocrats are good suggestions but you cannot prefer only single party........
2- you said solution is simple, Instead of hiring power hungry people, who just want to enjoy privileges & rule their fellow country men, in the name of bureaucracy & then training them to run different departments, why not hire technocrats on merit basis & teach them bureaucracy i have one suggestion technocracy must be teach to bureaucrats so they could also have technocrats abilities,
3- you also said that technocrats are loyal to their job well brother in my view we cannot say with 100% guarantee about any human that he will definitely do good work as you are unable to know the inner of man.....my question is what will you say if a technocrat will show disloyalty with his country??

sis no one is fighting but only giving ideas and just trying to convince

On Bureaucracy, i have read the threads on the role of bureaucrats.
All the five fingers are not equal.
I have observed the bureaucrats very closely as i am also a govt. servant.
The reality is quite different, it is an admitted truth that the work of govt. is to form policies and the work of bureaucrats is to execute and implement such policies. And it is also a reality that without a bureaucrat a law cannot be implemented, a policy cannot be executed, a plan cannot be completed etc because they runs the system according to the law and regulations prescribed in the constitution of Pakistan, Rules of Business, General Financial Rules, Esta Code etc.

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History is the struggle towards freedom.....