No one should be above criticism. But there is a difference between talking on this forum and talking on mainstream media. On media you are also being viewed by the enemy who is keen to exploit and propagate any of your weak points. In light of realism theory of international politics, imposing some restrictions on media persons in form of media ethics by society is a justifiable act though fundamentally wrong.
However, there are no such concerns when we are debating on this forum and that's where i think likes of Bilal Hasan go wrong and it becomes a matter of sense of humor.

Having said that I think Gypsified was a bit harsh in his rebuttal to Bilal Hasan. A person of your stature should be more persistent with positive criticism. In words of George Eliot “The responsibility of tolerance lies in those who have the wider vision.”
But then there is a difference between knowing the path and leading the path.

Very good points made sir. I would try to give a simpler model for progress here.

First thing we need is a good constitution. And second thing required is the absolute supremacy of that constitution. Guarantee the rule of law of law and I would guarantee the economic well being of the people.

***One important provision in the constitution should be the provision of basic human rights(food, clothing, health and education) of the people at all cost. This may not be fair to provide for the poor people from the taxes given by wealthy people but its is absolutely necessary for the maintenance of law and order. ***

Once peace is provided, The Invisible Hand (of Adam Smith) begins to work in mysterious ways.
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." --- AS

This is a very powerful model for economic progress. Among the current crop of politicians, Imran Khan seems to realize this model most closely.

I am open to comments.

Well brother I think whatever you put in the Constitution is redundant and useless unless people have a believe in it. The constitution can only make a difference if people learn it and they follow it instead of using 'shortcuts' like following personalities . It would require certain level of individualism in people's thoughts which is not found in our society as we are used to live in groups and families.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4

__________________
The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

I don’t think anyone would dispute that. It sounds pretty reasonable to me that certain media ethics be implemented related to, say, sensitive defense information and strategic locations and such. However, criticizing the corrupt behavior of intelligence agencies is an altogether different ballgame and it should be brought into light. If this can happen in the rest of the world, it should also happen in Pakistan.

I might be a bit harsh but I only leashed out after consistently ignoring the personal attacks from the said person. And besides, I’m from Multan and the fire breathing sun is boiling everything, including tempers, so things got a bit warmed up. Having spent a year on this forum, I have a pretty good idea of people who are here for worthwhile conversations and those who are here only to taunt others.

Brother you make good points but i think we should appreciate the basic flaw in our democracy. here individuals take decisions on their own whim and wish. who took the decision to engage in Afghanistan? an individual or an institution? who brought this individual in the first place? was that an individual or an institutional decision? why can't the army choose their own chief by their own system? why does the PM get to choose between three? why that choice is there in the first place? does it not politicize the army? does it not mean that the PM gets to select whoever is on the same page with him? isn't the objective here common interest? hasn't it been the politician who drags in the military into politics? has it not been since independence? was the first person to subvert the constitution military or civil? we will only dig the past again and again and all we will find is the same skeletons again and again.

coming to the present, here is what former DG ISI once said:

ISLAMABAD: When former DG ISI Ahmed Shuja Pasha appeared before the Abbottabad Commission, he opened indiscriminate fire on all.



The former spy chief blasted Pervez Musharraf for caving in before Americans, the political leadership for ignorance, indifference and its lack of a reading culture, all security and intelligence agencies for not performing diligently and journalists as being ‘heavily bribed with money, women and alcohol’ for launching campaigns against the ISI.


where was media then? why did not take the former DG to court then? was their silence an admission of their acts? or was it that it was PPP's government? so then does it mean that our TV channels are politicized too? who was Khalid Khwaja? what is this rumor about journalists talking to taliban?

and look at the difference here. the former DG does not go anywhere with his accusations. was it because he had no proof or was he being mature or stupid? and what did the media do to the present dg? did the media have any proof? were they being responsible? should they have not gone to court with their fears? who do you think acted more responsibly in this episode? and who should have acted more responsibly?

Brother we won't reach anywhere with this. at least i don't think that we will.
when the dust settles down in a few years we will know things we don't want to know.

hopefully USA is leaving and we would be mostly done with this crisis. let's talk the real issues. whether there is war or no war, people in my country suffer in poverty. children in my country rummage the dust bins. media is a modern problem. but poverty stays the same. have you ever seen moen jo daro in pictures and wondered why is it that 4500 years later people still sleep on footpaths. you call this development? you call this modernity? you are talking of free speech, people do not have much to eat.

let's talk of the basic basic rights and let's try to solve those problems.

rest is upto you
regards

very right brother Aaqib. let's hope that this happens. but what if does not happen the way you say it? what if things stay the same? and i do not think the present government's performance is bad either. they are good economic managers.

but my question stays the same. what do you think should be done if Khan does not come to power? how to have economic emancipation then?

and where have you been all this time?
regards

what you say really takes the air out of me.

the real problem as i see it is lack of good intellectual fermentation. for that we need great teachers, but teachers are not respected in our society, probably that is why we are here on this forum. the solution to that i think is to give status to teachers. like excusing their basic taxes, allow them to display a flag on their vehicles, with the police taught not to bother such vehicles. in Italy when a teacher enters a courtroom everyone stands! our people understand status so let's give teachers that status. if not now, then whenever you get the chance or i get the chance or anyone else does, do it please.

but now we need schools and for that we need money. the government is not interested so we have to help ourselves. if not much every person can at least give scholarship to at least one kid. to address the whole issue i think we need to tackle poverty first. why? because every servant, cook, driver, waiter, cart owner, shopkeeper etc. etc. i talked to and asked as to what was their wish? they wished for educated children but they do not have the resources. so if we tackle poverty i think economics will take care of the rest. because it will increase demand for schools and wherever is demand, supply does not take long to follow.

but how to tackle poverty? it has to be done through employment of resources. we can explore and create ideas that make the capitalists lot salivate.

where corruption is concerned i pledge to take care of my corner wherever i am. and keep filling people's ears with fear of Allah. but you said we still stuck over love marriages. na sir, its worse. we are stuck over jeans and shalwar kameez . anyone who gets to wear a suit considers himself above people wearing shalwar kameez. and when shalwar kameez becomes unwanted, the people wearing it become despicable.

there are people on this very forum who are worried about salary, perks and privileges and who are very prone to laughing at other people's grammatical mistake! wow!

so if the present generation has rotten away, we can still hope for a better future. else i am always ready to get a few sheep and explore the Himalayas!

Economic opportunities are very powerful at breaking down groups and promoting individualism. I will quote Will Durant here
"Then suddenly factories appeared; men and women and children began to leave home and family, authority and unity, to work as individuals, individually paid, in dismal structures raised to shelter not human beings but machines. Cities grew; and instead of sowing seed and reaping harvests in the fields, men fought a life-and-death struggle, in dark and filthy shops, with belts and pulleys, great knives and saws,, ten thousand wheels and presses, iron arms and teeth." from Pleasures of Philosophy

And let's not forget that modern education developed in response to Industrial revolution; to meet the demand of technically educated persons required to operate, maintain and invent the machinery. If industrialization happens at a fair pace, it would be fair to assume that newly created demand for more skillful people will also create a demand for education.


Now although the primary function of education is to enhance the productivity and skill set of a person, modern education also kind of brain washes people to respect certain moral values. This is made possible by the fact that enhanced productivity that results from education kind of liberates a person from the constant struggle for survival as with his technical skills he is capable of making a living easily.

Moreover, more information about universe and cause and effect relations frees the educated person from stereotypes. This is the point where education of individuals will begin to reflect in the constitution. A better constitution will in turn lead to a more educated and liberal civil society. Which will then inform the constitution from its learning. This positive feedback loop will culminate into a society that is more well off, tolerant and positive.

Here i would reemphasize the order in which things happen. Industry and jobs come first and education expands to supply the created demand of skilled persona. Industry will expand on the condition that a country have the rule of law. And yes Muhammad Kashif Sir a constitution that doesn't reflect the masses is a useless document. For that I would recommend a constitution that truly represents the will of masses and then implement that constitution. Achieve law and order at any terms and the above cycle of industry-education-awareness-better constitution is bound to follow.

Present government doesn't seem to be following this or for that matter any other model of economic progress as strictly as they should have. They are doing good things along the way. But have also launched some projects which are not economically efficient; projects like metro bus, solar lamps and yellow cab etc doesn't justify their opportunity cost. (Opportunity cost of such projects is the lack of schools, lack of basic infrastructure and energy etc.) Many of the projects seem to be intended to win the voters.

Not following a model will slow down the rate of progress but progress will happen--we can be sure about that--.

Thanx for asking I will try to be more active on the forum.
Regards

politics have always stood in the way of economics, so no surprises there.
brother your law and order and constitution do seem to do the trick but when do you expect that to happen? you are hoping on Khan, my question still is the same: what to do under governments like present one who are more interested in votes than people?

and are you a student of Zulqurnain Cheena?

regards

Brother we already have a constitution though a bit flawed. and we have an executive in place to ensure the rule of law. They are doing their bit. If they do it well we'll have quick and better results. If they do it poorly then it will take a longer and perhaps more bloody route to reach there. That's all.

No I don't know mr. Cheena.

so you think the executive is doing their bit. so why is it that a new government always hand picks its executive members?

and thanks for the bloody route. prepare for that brother. that would be the real test.

regards

Hello Gypsified! Kindly write your email address in your profile so that your fans can contact you.

Thank you