Why are some pakistanis against pakistan ?

[saraforpakistan]

A-O-A everybody . i hope you are all in fine state . ok so i am gonna come straight to the point .

they are living here but dont lose a single chance to say things against the beloved country ( even in this forum ) . yeah i know what your gonna say . TOO MUCH PROBLEMS WITH PAKISTAN ??

yeah i know but we all ( including me ) have a part in it too. some think that anything is batter then pakistan .. i have been to USA with a relative and to uk with sister . people there sometimes are against their governments but never against their country . i am not saying that Europe ,usa is all bad and no good . of course not . what i am saying is we Pakistanis tend to concentrate too much on their PRO,s and our CON,s . no country is without problems . no matter what anybody says pakistan is and always will be the best place for us. what do you guys think ?

NOTE. i am not looking for an aggressive discussion where you guys will point out the political , social , and religious problems in pakistan( i know problems are there ) . just a friendly talk without hurting anybody,s feelings . i am not against the non muslim countries , its just that i love my home( country ) more. so please dont be disrespectful ,cause some people forget that when they disagree with you . have a nice day .

[Bilii]

Yea, If we will think good. every think will be good. . Instead of being sarcastic for Pak, should refine our own self.

[MIR A GHAFFAR]

Originally Posted by saraforpakistan

A-O-A everybody . i hope you are all in fine state . ok so i am gonna come straight to the point .

they are living here but dont lose a single chance to say things against the beloved country ( even in this forum ) . yeah i know what your gonna say . TOO MUCH PROBLEMS WITH PAKISTAN ??

yeah i know but we all ( including me ) have a part in it too. some think that anything is batter then pakistan .. i have been to USA with a relative and to uk with sister . people there sometimes are against their governments but never against their country . i am not saying that Europe ,usa is all bad and no good . of course not . what i am saying is we Pakistanis tend to concentrate too much on their PRO,s and our CON,s . no country is without problems . no matter what anybody says pakistan is and always will be the best place for us. what do you guys think ?

NOTE. i am not looking for an aggressive discussion where you guys will point out the political , social , and religious problems in pakistan( i know problems are there ) . just a friendly talk without hurting anybody,s feelings . i am not against the non muslim countries , its just that i love my home( country ) more. so please dont be disrespectful ,cause some people forget that when they disagree with you . have a nice day .

i don't think any one living in pakistan hates his/her country. You have rightly mentioned that there are problems in pakistan and need to be resolved. My complaints are not from my homeland i love the most,but leaders both who belongs to establishment and civilian leadership. They have always fooled the nation with one slogan or other. Our state made blunders and biggest was jumping into Jihad movement in Afghanistan which has crippled pakistan and made Pakistan hub of breeding extremists in result we are being slaughtered.

You said that people in America have problem with governments not with state,same is the case in pakistan but in US you will never find people issuing fatwa of kafir and declaring one traitor who refuses to accept the state imposed ideologies. If any one who talks about rights is declared traitor.

Smaller provinces have problems and are in great sense of deprivation which also enhances the frustration of people towards state.. I think state should be balanced and treating all people equally but here even demanding rights may endanger your patriotism.

[nelblueblue]

@saraofpak
Being as a member of mankind is the sole attribute to accept the sovereignty and integrity of state indiscriminately.But it doesn't mean inundate yourself in utter mirages or a behave like an headless chicken running behind the ostrich egg.
I love ,respect and inspire from Pakistan and feel proud to be called as Pakistani but I have serious reservations on organized ignorance,self bloated ethnocentricism, and utter divergance from realism....
Same is applied to abroad , I hate western designed: ,Anglo Saxon corporate democracy ,totalitarian government and military industrial cartels....
But I give value to human life,,,,whether they are Muslim,non Muslim or anything else... respect the difference of opinion and even positive criticism is welcomed.
Which i Unfortunately missed here....

[alihashmatkhoso]

Originally Posted by Bilii

Yea, If we will think good. every think will be good. . Instead of being sarcastic for Pak, should refine our own self.

we think good, it is not solution of problems we have to come on the middle to solve them and have to play individual role for the development of our deeply loved country.

[Anila26]

Hating ones homeland is least one can do. People who cannot even look for the solution of problems end up saying we hate this country. Every single state has problems, minor or major but its not the problem that matters, its the approach towards the problem. We, Pakistani, as human beings lack many basic qualities of being called a good human being. We don't want to play our part in any way and expect the job to be done by anyone else, and when the job is not done, we, like an obligation start hating our homeland.

[RAO RAMEEZ]

Some people Criticize harshly in Pakistan. They start from it's very ideology and end at Pakistan Army or ISI.
Most of them are not against Pakistan but they are well-wishers at the core of their hearts. They know where the problem lies actually but common men doesn't understand their stance at all. They think it's some sort of Anti-State personality descended on us as she is paid dollars or Indian rupees.

But there are some black sheep as well. Who really want to defame our country and to blow apart it's roots.
Most of our problems are created by ourselves, will be figured out by our selves and cure lies in our hands as well.

[Bilii]

Originally Posted by alihashmatkhoso

we think good, it is not solution of problems we have to come on the middle to solve them and have to play individual role for the development of our deeply loved country.

Yea, but will solve them if we have something good in our mind.. otherwise we will increase the problem.. And if we are having about good than we will not agree for doing evil,,, so the thinking good is the major subject. .

[nelblueblue]

First of all bloated and imaginative planning is not viable at the behest of poor democracy and in worst law and order situation.and secondly here systematic ignorance is abounding superfluously.problem is misunderstood and solution....a laughing stock at institutional level.....??

Consider the case of sectarianism.
Fanatical religious authorities are labelled as perpetrator.yes its true ... but can we bother to think about it within the broader perspective
who is financing them and where they are trained.....
local Pakistani will say ,middle eastern states...and
location somewhere around the back yard of countryside....

What is this...????

is it logical to accept that....

I will never accept it...
search out the uncle Sam's military installments in former Yougoslavik states... Azerbaijan ,Turkmanistan ,Afghanistan etc.That's in true sense are the save heavens for terrorist...Whether its alqaed,all nusra,isil,Taliban or Black liberators
(terrorist in Peshawar incidence were speaking Arabian and Persian language and later on identified as Serbians and chech...CIA contractor are working here as well in full swing,even today....)

From where I got this notion..Kindly read Zbigniew berziznski book(GRAND CHESSBOARD"American primacy and geostrategic imperitives...) and than declassied documents of NsA as leaked out by Edward snowdon.
its the region where global interest converges and hegemons try to assert their influence either balkanizing the state or setting the cauldron of sectarianism...
Than comes middle east...
already told that its the region where petropolitics of west behest the vietnamin sort of crisis in Yeman and promoting the egalitarian notion and s"""DIVIDE and RULE""""
How ????
sectarianism,divergence,promoting instability... and linguistic division like Kurds,in Syria ,Iraq and Iran are some assets that CIA contractors employ in middle east and in afg pak Iran and Libya
it serves many purposes...
1.American economy is running either through imf or through military industrial complexes..( military revinue contributes 50% of us GDP.

running war on terror in full swing serves the purpose of industrial cartels like Rockefeller ,CIA,pentagon,Texas company as well as media warfare as monopolized by cnn ,bbc,wall street journal, and fox news channels

,psychological warfare design by these cartels create the impulsive impetus and justification that war is compulsory/ if there is no CIA,west would be exterminated by terrorist.That democracy is shackled or hand picked western brought up isil pets will bombard the pluralistic democracy.
Than a cover up to cartels corruption I mean vaccination program ,us aid and bill gates humanitarian assistance and NGOs program are all fake.its a well designed to make developing countries as begging bowls rather than deciding their own fate.
Proof : check out from internet how measles vaccine is interlinked with autism.
us aid in Pakistan and literacy rate.
NGos in Africa and most poor countries in world
particularly in Zimbabwe where they plundered the wealth and leading the country to penniless state.
US Military giants are
..Providing weapons to Ksa as well as isil forces...(I mean providing collateral damage to enemies along with earning worlds innocency certificate ,contrary to Muslims whose fame resides as a terrorist,fanatics and backward entitist.

Come to pakistan
I m reiterating ,puppet rulers serves the best interest of imperial colonist...Under whose auspices not only western style democratic drama is staged but also lead the general public to mass ignorances...
its ignorance in Pakistan that inbreds fanatics and madrassah culture.(Let me remind you I am not against madrassah reforms ,,because it is economical and synchronized with local culture of Pakistan..Because Pakistan is not an open society to have co education at grass root level)
but I will castigate mullahs Islam nd so called green ,black and white turban man are just promoting further division and sect superiority.

Ignorance serves another purpose ie never dare to challange the feudalism and probity in courts or equality in jobs according to merit..

Thus NRO beneficiary,under matric,and money laundrer will either become chief ministers or earn the status of president.
so
At global level so much hue and cry on terrorism and isil crisis at Un forum....

Is there any single state in the world who challenged the legality of us war in Iraq ,Libya and Syria...(Un; permanent members Russia,France and china stepped down against military adventurism in respective states but is international court of justice do possess the authority to challenge the world's sole hegemone
or un security council to pass resolution against
America?
at least dismantle the corporate hands that
make un
itself as a hegemons servant head quart.
Even there are some rules in jungle ,
but is there any principle to question about the impartiality, and accountability?
Saddam was exterminated for dictatorship and Gaddafi for non compliance,Syria's president is non compliant ,Iranian nuclear technology is threat to British born baby(Israel),kieve is slipping out of natos hand,so it must be sanctioned....
Did we thought
,That its not a blatant violation of state sovereignty.

It looks logical to have sectarianism and religious fanacticism in middle east and Balkan states that is extended to Pakistan...

Tell me what is happening in Greece,Ukraine ,Rwanda,Liberia,Ethiopia,Mexico ,peru,Zimbabwe and Venezuela as listed a few...
They are possessing no such vulger connotation but dared to challenge western interest.???
I was literally crying when my teacher told me that how African sole bread basket of sahlan region was misleaded by imf austerity reforms and how highly toxic Gmo whaet and maize was dumped in Adisababa and also on ROR(rate of return) on sovereign guarntee .ironic enough "E.U. banned Gmo thus African bread basket was transformed into ""worlds dustbin""""and in turn they lost their legitimate right on public assets like state banks,natural reserves of gold,copper and silver....
You never heard about a famine when there was sufficient food but purchasing power was lost due to sudden hikes in prices.
people were dying due to malnurshishment but food was stocked within the warehouses of few elites...
Than Organized killing I.e. GENOCIDE and political failure in afrixa

President Kugame(it was the same person who exterminated Tutsi and promoted Genocide in democratic republic of Congo and in Rwanda)
Blair is making selfi with kugame and giving the Africans a lecture of democracy while covertly provided training to RPF (Rawandan public front)


and General sis I in Egypt.(morsi is sentenced to death""" where Arab spring has gone ?were the Egyptian striving for facial replacement I.e.Hosni with sisi...or :dictator with democracy or democracy with dictator..... I think so Egypt has needed to learn the lesson from Bhuttos assassination.

solution to crisis:
Critical thinking and mass awarness is needed.
Reform from top not from bottom,I mean exterminate the real perpetrator not contractor I.e. death punishment to saulat or persons like that is a cosmetic measure,kulk out the person like Altaf...Evidences are more than sufficient enough that he is terrorist and definitely involved in incitation of violance,Than comes the money laundrer and corrupt elites...its ambient is cirmventing our respected generals,politicians and top bureaucrats.

But most fundamental flaw is existing at budgetary allocation ie only 2% of total revenue is allocated to education...
why ???
This is a loose notion of imfs austerity measures.
All my above mentioned solutions are almost unviable to be practiced....
Thus I conclude...
General ramsfeld said
War is peace and good for American economy and we as a global spectare are witnessing a new era ,an era which is finally marching towards New World order.

I am not pessimist but giving you assurity that Pakistan is not a safe place to livr,consider a friend of mine, who was neoconverter to islam and decided to reside in Rawalpindi along with her husband """" last week ,we met in PC ,I enquired how she is feeling about Pakistan...(I was supposing she would say that Pakistanis are very friendly etc etc)
But contrary to my expectations,she started lamenting that within 6 months two organized robberies were operated at her home ,at gun point they snatched away each and every thing and that operation was continued for two hours.She was saying "we have planned to return back to Singapore.
Tell me: which sort of justification should I give her...While she was counter questioning?
Are you OK?any sort of adventurism? or is it your Pakistan,safe for investment?

remember
Actions speak louder than words.

[iamauk]

Well, Pakistanis hate Pakistan is itself a contradiction i mean what is simple.
Things are many that cause such factors emerge in a community that people come to hate their own country or land or at least verbally. Taking by common sense what i know...
Simply many times it is when we are all frustrated either politically or socially ( simply a fact that we know ).
Historical impact:
As we know that creation of Pakistan is not merely any sudden incident or we call it something based on long efforts of Muslims. Now the thing to be taken into consideration is that we in inheritance are bringing along a sense of hatred with the land we live although in an different way but there is. Like we were revolutionist and particularly we wanted to shift our land means dream of a Muslim land apart from "The land we are living in". ( in other words, we want other land, or we want not this land or we hate this land finally... )
In a nutshell: The sense of hatred with the land we are living, broke after august 47. But it definitely left precedents that it can also be so and little things were enough to evoke such a sense in our midst...

Now factors like nationalism at province level, and difference of religious minded people from current state's movements, and sometimes injustice like things taking to frustration and finally sparking that inherited sense of hatred with the country.

Factually things mostly causing our own people to go against the state are 'Difference between Religion and State, Liberal forces within country, Sectarian sense of minorities ( State supporting Sunni or Shia elsewhere ? if Sunni then Shia against the state & vice versa...), and Modernization vs that orthodox like...

And least but not last, The politics: Mostly and now Political rivals that how they take the winner opposition ? Incumbent party is taken but little indirectly or we call it immaturely. Our people slogan against incumbency for political defects but it actually appears as if they are against state ??? Yes, Even deliberately, see (yesterday's long march) for rigging allegations upon a single party whole system/state was taken into victimization..
Thus, will not at least such factors emerge in us ? in spite of all this ?