Armed soldiers and armed courts do not bring rule of law, they bring fear of authorities, that is themselves . I don't want to see people remain scared of authority and their own military, people and authorities should cooperate with each other and both learn the law to enforce it instead of the mighty coming to teach us respect the law .

You have said yourself that military courts are good when country is under war, do not you think consequences,currently, are worse than war?.State of Pakistan has already decleared war.brother, we need speedy trial courts; it is possibly only by army,because civilian judges are not able to do so.if someone is able he faces a lot of problem. Like life security etc. For short term army courts are best,and we don't have other options.

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SHAH

they are but they are afraid, the real need is to remove the fears not bring armed judges . And Pakistan is not factory of terrorist because people don't respect the law, it is because the mighty doesn't .

I would have definitely agreed if the military courts had limited jurisdictions in the war zone, but looking at the history it seems it won't take long before the military courts turn the whole country into a battlefield .

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

How can fear be removed in the circumstances where Killers are free and have no fears to shot someone.do you have any suggestion that government should adopt to remove quickly the fear,so that judges will be able to provide justice???

We already have courts with limited authority,which are seemed to be failed, what is need of army courts if we closed them in the circle of limitations? Military courts if do well should be let to do what they want to.

It does not mean that from now there is no need of civilian courts. It is not the work of army to run civilian courts neither it is suited to democracy, but for two years,limited time, if they uproot terrorism what is wrong????

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SHAH

Well then why not the army come for their protection, perhaps because it's against their prestige to be a guard and protector of the law whereas they perceive themselves to be warriors and masters of the nation. It's no time for arrogance 'under the circumstances' as well but anyways 'under the circumstances' is a nice justification . I agree that 'under the circumstances' it's ok .

My salute 'if they' uproot terrorism . However I still don't think it's going to work. I still think arrangements should be made to let the proper guys do the proper job and only that will work.

On personal level it seems establishing military courts is not just a danger for democracy but it's dangerous for the army itself looking at the present environment. After years of ruling the country it seems the army has grown a political thought of its own that runs within the institution. And it also seems there is two political groups there, one who is still sympathetic to Taliban and one who is vehemently opposed to them and want to finish them off. Thus when there are military courts one segment might still try to get some crooks a bit of relief which can create tensions between army's own ranks. This concern is also making me oppose the idea of military courts.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

What about the factors present or were present in Swat like Mulla Fazlullah and who were the million people gathered around him to listen his sermons?
Jamat-i-Islami is the only political party free from Kleptocracy and Cronyism. Means what? People decide who will be the Presidents of their parties. You have to change the people first. Or remove the literature of Modudi, Khursheed Ahmad. But you still have to study it for the prep of CSS ..Because it's the only literature which is used by Islamist all over the world to fight secular forces.
So.........

No,I didn't saw what you were up to actually. Seen a post and expanded the thought with a bit of facts. I don't direct anything personally to any one.
After reading Rafia Zakriyas feminist satires, what worse can come after that.

We are with Asma Jahangeer in this stance. No matter whosoever she is. Some Illuminati or Freemason or Jewish lobbyist. She speaks with facts and the fact is that your 80 percent budget, your best Real Estate etc.........
And Off course all of the "Won" wars.
Leave it...All of the created problems including Talibans.
Marshal Laws.
Leave them. All of the security lapses of the country.
Leave it again...Only one helicopters enters the most sensitive area, kills OBL. Picks him and put him to Arabian Sea. I fear, if FBI reads my post. Who will save me except Allah. And if firstly and finally Allah have to save you then why 80 percent budget and all protocols.
And if they are meant to secure you from Floods. Who then? Who have the helicopters and all the basic trainings? Why not invest some 20 percent to NDMA and give them helicopters as well?
And people say it's the least "Corrupt" department.
When a Matric pass man will get "best salary to his calibre", "best health insurance", the best school systems, the best ration, best areas to live and off course, best plots after retirement and dozens of quotas for his children from universities to government jobs. Why on earth he will have to do corruption?
Oh...Someone will tell me about Harsh conditions of Siachin and Tharparkar.
The civilians don't live there as well? Are they given 3kg per person mutton daily?
They are paid more then what they do. Otherwise there are countries without Army as well. They themselves create the problems, to provide logic for their existence.
On the other hand a double PhD, who built Nuclear Bomb for you lives a miserable life and the man who started it, lies hanged on guillotine.
Just Minus Nuclear Bomb from our defence system and the worth of our defence with Billion dollar army will be reduced to shillings.

Ok...

The topic was Military courts.
The only thing left to be screwed. Give it as well.
Creation of Military courts is just a drama of Government to avoid "Look Busy, Do Nothing" phrase.
Or after retirement they can say "We had taken all the measures" and if after all the meaningless meetings they will do nothing, people will have doubts over their overwhelmed "capabilities".
Only the Lawyers like Qasuri sb who had previous military relationships for the purpose of "Vengeance" and hanged the best of all the political brains of Pakistan, can support such things.

Quaid was the best foreseer of our national attitudes. He had known that power and protocols vested, corrupt the minds of people who remained in slaveries, miseries and poverty throughout their lives, so he at first place tried to tell them their real worth and duties.

It's an alarming situation for us now. Frankenstein himself will be the judge on his self-made "soulless" human machines called the "Talibans".

Finally again "They create problems by themselves to provide logic for their existence".
The Military Courts...Will end the terrorism from Tora Bora to Wahga Border soon.

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If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

I know you also want military courts in these circumstances,but I do not know why you do not admit this openly.
By the way, during darhnas army protected our parliament, and with the help of article 245 Islamabad was handed over to army. Judges civilians everyone was escorted by army. This denies your statement of arrogance.

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SHAH

well 'ihsan jataana' is a strategy of our people and so the institutions also behave in the same way. They did their duty by assisting in giving protection during dharna and we are grateful for that, but that ain't in no sensible civilized way a justification to crouch in every matter and take over it. Help ko ihsan bana ke Ihsaan jata ke qabza karna achi baat nahin hai . It simply suggests that we should never seek assistance from own army because if they come they will take over the house to 'help us' haha . Jk. If they assisted in that why don't they assist in providing security to the courts and judges.

I know in my heart that there is no other option, but I have serious concerns and I think this would be a very bad move even if it is the only possibility. Thus I will never lend full support for what i see as a bad move . May Allah protect and bless Pakistan and Pakistanis.

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Rao You are Right Because Taliban's are often use Jummat islami and sami ul haq literature But if Govt Ban on these few parties then i think problem will solved I am strictly against religious parties of pakistan

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Success is simple. Do what's right, the right way, at the right time.

So, the gist of our discussion is???? According to my opinion: we should make our judical system strong. army courts are not the solution, it may be helpful for short term time.
Currently, we have to support military courts, because it is need.
Government have to make long term policy for peace and anti terrorism in Pakistan.
You are requested for your opinion.

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SHAH