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  #1  
Old Thursday, January 14, 2010
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Question Who is the government ?

How to have a pro govt approach?

When reading this, one thing came in my mind. Who is the government??? Is it the political party(s) whose office bearers are occupying the presidency, the premiership and other ministerial portfolios?. Or is it what is so called Establishment? Or is it the Military? Or is it what??? The only connection between us (the people) and the Government is the Print and Electronic media, which used to be like "No matter what, our govt. is good" in older days, but now the audiences are totally baffled about what is going on. If we read different columnist, intellectuals, writers or others who belong to that fraternity, they seem to be supporting different spheres of influence in our state.

If the Govt. is politicians, then what are the clandestine compulsions that they mostly talk about are barring them from implementing their policy? If the Govt. is Establishment, then again what is it? Who is supposed to be its boss? What are his/her policies? How do we spot him/her? If the Govt. is Military, what are its Chief of Staff's policies concenring the Govt. and Public? Does any one know what is the infamous "Khufiya Haath" which is involved in most of the economic, societal, law and order disturbances and conspiracies? How influential is that "Khufiya Haath" in directing the state's policies, or is itself the Govt.???

I mean I am totally confused about who is ruling this country. If anyone knows, tell me about it so that I also know about who to support in the paper .
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Old Thursday, January 14, 2010
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Default who is Govt.

nice unthought question.

well, your bewilderment regarding the functioning of Govt. seems sound and logical. Good governance, which is the ultimate outlook of a ruling government is lacking in our unfortunate country Pakistan. besides, prevalence of incoherence in power bocks, some powerful force...the pressure coming from public through media, conspiracy games of opposition, deteriorating security situation in the country, lobying of our enemies at international forums and more importantly, the self centred policies of USA...are fading away the very image of the ruling government.
with this embarassing situation, where everyone is trying to snatch the ham bone, no one can position a fine tuned government. the role of public and civil society needs further attention to influence the policies of government and strenghthening democracy to make it 'PEOPLS' GOVERNMENT.'
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  #3  
Old Saturday, January 16, 2010
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Default @ mhmmdkashif

Hmm, just a month ago I was also confused about all this. I asked a well-informed friend regarding this as well as conducted my own research. And my findings have been pointing to only one direction. Pakistan is not being run by politicians. The frequent change of governments and the instability prevalent even when there is one, is a testament to another 'invisible hand' who is actually pulling the reigns. Since we dont have an apt, powerful political leadership, others will have to jump in to save the house from crumbling down. In this regard the military is often blamed for stalling the democratic process, however they arent totally wrong you know. If Zardari and Rehman Malik have come back to Pakistan as a result of a deal between Musharraf, them and USA- then USA is essentially playing a guarantor of their powerplay. Then of course, USA can also demand these men to bring forth their motives instead of Pakistan's. If this is just the grapevine for us, then the realities must be even more grave for the men behind the scenes. In such a scenario, someone else has to ensure, that although people tend to make money, yet the existence of Pakistan is not challenged. And this is where the Establishment comes in. If you google this word on the net, all the first few results you see will be referring to the elite who run Pakistan. This term is specific to Pakistan.

So what comprises the Establishment of Pakistan? It is essentially, the army and the civil bureaucracy which is part of it. This does not mean that all their members run the show. Think of it as a secret society of elite members which doesnt have official recruitments. As a matter of fact, their members are chosen after observing them over a period of time. Of course they are leaders who become very powerful over time and are known for their pro-Pakistan stances instead of pro-party politics. Those bureaucrats for example, who have never really shown inclinition towards any specific politicial party during their service are part of this. (and this is a cumbersome task because when in service one is required to reveal their preference, and this is on an informal level of course).

Read more on this yourself though and try forming a unique opinion

Regards
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Old Sunday, January 17, 2010
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"jis ki lathi, us ki bhains"
Pakistan is ruled by those, who have the power !
And who have the power ?
Those who have the money and authority.
Now you can reach at the the conclusion !
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  #5  
Old Monday, January 18, 2010
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Default ...........

There are several issues which has been alwayes controvarsal... like our country had up's and down's when start think this question i found one answer.

"JITNE MOUN UTNI BATEEN"

so i think we should keep working, youth is a future of any country... we should not depend on any government, we should work in every field and our country will automatically take its benefit. well one think i should say at last that. aadha kaam politicians ne bigara aur aadha khana kharab media ne kiya hai..(i dint say that journalism or media is bad thing but wrong usage of right think sometimes make bad senario, people like shahid sufhani and kamran khan) well take care
keep rocking that our country rock's
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  #6  
Old Tuesday, January 19, 2010
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Thanx to all for ur valuable replies, but there are still some unanswered questions:

@sabah hunzai: Dear u said "the pressure coming from public through media", how do u weigh this ur own statement urself. Do u think Pakistani media of today really is voice of the people of Pakistan? or it is just acting like few pressure groups? (I said groups in plural because different channels seem to have different priorities).
Another thing u said is "lobying of our enemies at international forums", how come that is affecting our internal situation? Do u think we are directly ruled by one or more foreign countries? (maybe more then one is true, because since each of our rulers have their own national interest in us, probably thats why we dont see consolidation in our Govt. decision making ).

@aphrodite: Dear u think Establishment has the real power in this country. U also said that its like a group of elites whose members are selected after an exhaustive observation, do u really think our state is an oligarchy? The major question is who performs the observation that u referred? (shooo, that means "Khufiya Haath" is working under another "Khufiya Haath" )

@khuhro: Dear u r absolutely rite that thinking about this is of no use, so we should stop thinking about it. Do u know the role of pathfinders in a herd of Cape Buffalo? Even wild animals who only graze and breed need pathfinders, how can we humans disconnect this role from our herd . We should atleast know who is our pathfinder.
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Old Tuesday, January 19, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhmmdkashif View Post
Thanx to all for ur valuable replies, but there are still some unanswered questions:

@sabah hunzai: Dear u said "the pressure coming from public through media", how do u weigh this ur own statement urself. Do u think Pakistani media of today really is voice of the people of Pakistan? or it is just acting like few pressure groups? (I said groups in plural because different channels seem to have different priorities).
Another thing u said is "lobying of our enemies at international forums", how come that is affecting our internal situation? Do u think we are directly ruled by one or more foreign countries? (maybe more then one is true, because since each of our rulers have their own national interest in us, probably thats why we dont see consolidation in our Govt. decision making ).

your critique is worthy notable.
there are not the pressures groups alone, which you have rightly pointed out, there are general public opinion as well. public aspirations, more lucidly their demands from their elected representatives, when not fulfilled, media is always there to exagerate their grievances, and to thus to create despondency in public. Public despondancy, in my opion, is the highest indicator of failed govt.

second point, I think the lobying of enemy countries, does have a direct bearing on the foreign policy of a country, if while making an alliance, or appraoching for a foreign add, is politicised by a foreign element, then the very objective of foreign policy couldn't be materialised, thus to affect the national interest........ this vicious cycle delays the govt policies and leads her to failure.
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  #8  
Old Saturday, January 23, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhmmdkashif View Post
@aphrodite: Dear u think Establishment has the real power in this country. U also said that its like a group of elites whose members are selected after an exhaustive observation, do u really think our state is an oligarchy? The major question is who performs the observation that u referred? (shooo, that means "Khufiya Haath" is working under another "Khufiya Haath" )
Lol! Umm yeah, I firmly believe that the infamous 'establishment' runs the show here, and you're also right about the notion of oligarchy. Because, even during a one-man dictatorship, there are other 'khufiya haath' making decisions as well.

Okay dont think of the Establishment as a very organized kind of 'secret society', because its not. However, imagine an informal structure of losely connected, very powerful individuals who also have common interests concerning the state- making decisions in tandem with other likeminded people. In this structure perhaps, one may include people like a COAS, DG ISI, DG FIA, DG IB, most if not all the corp commanders, Government secretaries in vital departments like Interior ministry, foreign affairs etc, and maybe some top cops (dont take this sketch to be exact, it may change any time, as in, when secretary interior is not a buddy for instance).

Now your question as to 'who selects these people to be precise'. Actually this one has a complex reply also because in Pakistan, State and Government structures keep changing from time to time and there is no set pattern for organization. During military rule, the then martial law administrator along with his corp commanders may decide who to include in this group ( often those people are selected who have always had anti-party stances, and are not inclined towards any political party- something that you will need to make clear the higher up you go in the ladder). Obviously, a bureaucrat attached to the PPP cause or PML (N) cause will not be considered for placement in important positions and will ultimately be 'khuddey-lined'. During 'democratic government' times, the reverse may happen, i.e, the prevailing government will bring in their own civil bureaucracy (the guys who had been loyal to them all along), and will want to side-line all the others. This is a major reason why civil/military bureaucracy is never happy with democratic governments. The reason why they arent happy, is simple. They usually give in to 'external pressures' and ignore the major cause, i.e of the state. The observation is not an exhaustive one at all because over time, it becomes very clear as to ' either you are with us or with them'. When you first join the services it may not be too clear cut, but as you go up, a political party minister may ask you to do him a favor- your response will tell him and gradually others what side you are on.

Hope this helped,

Regards
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  #9  
Old Saturday, January 23, 2010
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Confusion confusion confusion, there are many question still raising in mind, but I will content on the first point of the Objectives Resolution:

"Sovereignty belongs to Allah alone but He has delegated it to the State of Pakistan through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him as a sacred trust."
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Old Saturday, January 23, 2010
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well, as far as i know, there is a clear rule that forbids the public servents to be affliated with any political party or bring the "sifarish" of a political figure in official matters like posting/transfer.
In reality, most of the public servants openly violete this rule and never anyone has been punished for this violation.
Once, we did a little bit of research and found out that 95% of the top bureacracy is openly violiting this rule of Establishment and the ones who are supposed to take action against this violation are themselves involved in it.
In fact, this rule is same like the use of official vehicle for private purposes, where every bureacate use the official vehicles for himself and his family and is never caught.
In short ................."is hamaam main sub nangain hain"
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