Local Government in Pakistan

[S_Ranjha]

Hi dere!!

I ll like u ppl 2 comment over da structure of local government system in Pakistan. What are the flaws in it, y it has failed 2 deliver in pk, what amendments shd be made in tht. I tried to find punjab LG amendment bill but couldn't find the text. If someone finds, do share so we can discuss tht too.

Especially i would like 2 knw ur view points over da controversy tht how fair it is 2 replace a DC(A man of high caliber & potential, having loads of managment xperince wid him 2 run all the affairs ) with a District Nazim (Who in most cases happens 2 b a SSC or HSSC holder wid minimal xperience of management at such scale)

[Almaas Ruby]

Originally Posted by S_Ranjha

Hi dere!!

I ll like u ppl 2 comment over da structure of local government system in Pakistan. What are the flaws in it, y it has failed 2 deliver in pk, what amendments shd be made in tht. I tried to find punjab LG amendment bill but couldn't find the text. If someone finds, do share so we can discuss tht too.

Especially i would like 2 knw ur view points over da controversy tht how fair it is 2 replace a DC(A man of high caliber & potential, having loads of managment xperince wid him 2 run all the affairs ) with a District Nazim (Who in most cases happens 2 b a SSC or HSSC holder wid minimal xperience of management at such scale)

well

according to what i have researched and studied, i m against it, coz it is nothing but just another pile of rules and working regulations added to the govt files. it has shown no progress???has it?
it's functionalities are not clearly defined coz it is overlapping those of bureaucracy and it is by no means fair.
a bureaucrat is much on the higher pace than a nazim or naib nazim. it was just a step by a militory dictator to justify his being and regime.
it should be abrogated and thrown away. and instead the existing bureaucracy and other bodies should be strengthened.
"Rule of Law" is what not casting by the systems in our country. otherwise there is by no means any need to create any other system or bodies.

the reasons behind are:
~financial burden on the poor country.
~the level of difference in educational and administrattive background between the two "types of people"
~the roles are not clearly defined and so none can be held responsible for any issue concerned..
~politicians have been weak enough who come with heavy mandate because they lack administrative expertise, so how can the newly created local govt system fulfil the needs.


rules are there but their implementation is not in the way theis country needs. it's just non sense to create another system on the already corrupt and weak ones....giving a chance to another less educated lot to tackle the sensitive issues that need sophistication and is tasking.

Almaas

[KAWISH]

Originally Posted by S_Ranjha

Hi dere!!

I ll like u ppl 2 comment over da structure of local government system in Pakistan. What are the flaws in it, y it has failed 2 deliver in pk, what amendments shd be made in tht. I tried to find punjab LG amendment bill but couldn't find the text. If someone finds, do share so we can discuss tht too.

Especially i would like 2 knw ur view points over da controversy tht how fair it is 2 replace a DC(A man of high caliber & potential, having loads of managment xperince wid him 2 run all the affairs ) with a District Nazim (Who in most cases happens 2 b a SSC or HSSC holder wid minimal xperience of management at such scale)

aoa its really useful topic u chosed.there are two questions basically u put in ur post:
a.why LG faild in Pak
b.whether it is fair to replace CSPs w/ uneducated Nazims.
to ur second querry i would say dear that the current admin. system was the product of British to keep a stiff control over the indian messes.whereas local gvt sys brings peopls' representatives.why should we fear any injustice in affairs of the state being in hands of representatives when we are under a democracy.
second why it failed,there are many reasons one of them is really political.in punjab it failed coz the the nazims,naib nazims all were members of PML-Q where as the top brass is represented by the PML-N,clash of interests indeed uprooted the system here.as to the secondary reasons poor implimentation of policy and uncooperation of civil servants is responsible.
Regards
NOTE: pls do correct me if im wrong in anyway,i ll b gratful

[Sociologist PU]

All the systems and rules/regulations are made with good intention and for the benefit of the masses. It depends upon the ppl. who run the system !
If they are honest and perform their duties well, the system works, otherwise, system fail to deliver and ultimately collapsed.

[KAWISH]

@Sociologist PU
optimism is good,blind trust is not.n who says in our homeland people run the affairs?if you mean people's apathy, that let things shap the way they are wanted by the rulers,media,run the affairs in this way,there might be some accord then!

[lahoriate1234]

@ Almas

Couldn't agree with you more. Your are right on
Couple of things i would like to add are:

1. Too much financial powers were given to nazims without any process of accountability, that's why corruption was rampant.

2. Federal government by passed the provincial government in the process. A lot of their powers were given to the local governments. So there was always a clash between the two.

Although i am in favour of decentralization, but educated populace is a precondition for it. Do we have that much literacy in our rural area?

[S_Ranjha]

Originally Posted by KAWISH

it failed coz the the nazims,naib nazims all were members of PML-Q where as the top brass is represented by the PML-N,clash of interests indeed uprooted the system here.as to the secondary reasons poor implimentation of policy and uncooperation of civil servants is responsible.

Thnx bro fr ur views but i wud like u 2 xplain what u meant by top brass (MPA/MNA'z etc or establishment) coz as far MPA/MNA'z r concerned during larger part of LG tenure even da MPA/MNA almost all belonged to PML(Q).

Secondly u r ryt tht the essence of democracy does supports LG system but i never did opposed tht. I do believe tht yes it shd be dere. But the prob 4 me is given the potential/caliber of many Nazim do u think they do qualify fr such imp office. I ll need something else frm u other than Democracy iz a system which works on principle of self correction so give it da tym nd it ll evolve 2 b good

As per my understanding in the last LG system dey tried to provide room fr inclusion of civil servants(bureaucracy) in the imp decision making process coz they had ths idea tht the Nazims ll nt be qualified 2 run the affairs of govt. So the system was a mixture of two offices of DCO n Nazim. Nd tht led 2 all kinds of confusion as responsibility was not fixed on any specified office so both had da lame excuse tht he z nt responsible

Secondly what happens is tht u say tht LG is a provincial subject nd it z introduced by center by passing Provinces nf furthermore provinces were nt allowed 2 make any amendments till 2010.

Thirdly yes dere was a tussle between MPAs/MNAs nd Nazims in spite tht they belonged to same parties over who z da center of power. Now all 3 share da same territorial interests so dey clashed. Ideally the role of MPA/MNA is legislation nd policy making nd LG z da tool 2 implement those policies. But in our political scenario no matter how much good a MNA/MPA has done by legislating good bills fr public unless he goes dere in public nd inaugurates a road, water filtration plant, gas connections etc, he knows he wnt gets any votes next time. But all these thngs shd be ideally done by LG. So here z da clash of interests.

4th under LG system some provincial line departments were brought down at district levels like education health etc nd charge was given 2 EDO'z. Now if dese were provincial line departments tht were brought down they shd actually be responsible 2 provincial ministry but actually dey were answerable 2 DCO( A federal agent)

Im short of tym so ll put somethings in next sitting. Meanwhile u ppl plz try 2 enlighten me over the pts raised above.

regards

[Almaas Ruby]

Originally Posted by lahoriate1234

@ Almas

Couldn't agree with you more. Your are right on
Couple of things i would like to add are:

1. Too much financial powers were given to nazims without any process of accountability, that's why corruption was rampant.

2. Federal government by passed the provincial government in the process. A lot of their powers were given to the local governments. So there was always a clash between the two.

Although i am in favour of decentralization, but educated populace is a precondition for it. Do we have that much literacy in our rural area?

sir!!!

can u pls persuade me into ur disagreement?
besides the points we both agree on, the others i mentioned are:
uneducated lot, not upto the standard needed, sensitive issues handed over to such group of people with no expertise in administrative issues....they are weak. fear of corruption is there. isn't the existing scale of corruption enough???

i'll be thankful to u if u explain me where i am wrong.
and yes the system of decentralization is no doubt a better step but it's done in a wrong way..

regards!!

[KAWISH]

@S Ranjha
your points are valid and do hold ground but cannot be called universal truths.u seemed well versed with the complexities of LG,unlike me so i ll only adress ur conceptual concerns.
as you said you want something other than democracy to support the subordination of CSPs....well firstly it cant be saparated frm demo,if at all it is a fact that every system takes time to be sucessful.if our politicians are illitrate ,what on earth is going to educate them.if we coud have given room to this sys of LG,they would have grown at least civilised after working w/ qualified CSPs...
i dont agree w/ u brother when u said that this sys was to give CSPs big say in admin affairs.all know DMG was most unhappy w/ this sys and most of CSPs did not even cooperated with nazims.
i ll try to work on this topic in detail to adress ur other concerns.remember me in ur prayers
Regards Noor

[lahoriate1234]

Originally Posted by Almaas Ruby

sir!!!

can u pls persuade me into ur disagreement?
besides the points we both agree on, the others i mentioned are:
uneducated lot, not upto the standard needed, sensitive issues handed over to such group of people with no expertise in administrative issues....they are weak. fear of corruption is there. isn't the existing scale of corruption enough???

i'll be thankful to u if u explain me where i am wrong.
and yes the system of decentralization is no doubt a better step but it's done in a wrong way..

regards!!

Did i disagree with you ........I didn't disagree with you

One thing more i would like to add.....though the LG order 2001 was inline with modern system of devolution of power but it was not suitable for this part of the world. The old local government system had more similarities with systems existing in India and Bangladesh.