why not increase the pays by 40 to 50 thousand instead of thinking to stop the entrance of middle or lower class form bureaucracy?

i really like your out of the box thinking but somethings should stay simple.

the only corridor of reaching the power houses of this country,by a middle class person, is civil services.this should not be closed to them.
if it is about assumptions and logic then here is one from my side.

civil services is all about serving people of this country.to know about the problems faced by this country and its people, a dominant % of which is from middle and lower class and an insignificant %(insignificant in numer) from higher and elite class.now according to you the problems of 95%(non elite class) should be solved by ellite class.this is illogical.elite dont know and cannot solve the problems of middle and lower class.their problems can be solved by someone who can understand their problems.(what problems?i would never go into that because it would require a life time to enlist all those)

furthermore the logic that ellite would be less likely to indulge in corruption also does not hold weight.infact money makes a person more greedy.ones having one factory tries to get 2.ones having two tries to get four and so on untill the angel he is greeted by an angel.i would refer you to the law of diminshing marginal utility used in econnmics.this law staes
with the continuous use of commodity the marginal utility of the commodity decreases untill it reaches zero and then even become negative.
but there are certain exception to this universal law and one of which is MONEY.so economists deny your theory.(so according to this law rich should not join civil services,middle class can)


but there is a serious issue, to me,very rightly pointed out by you through your your post.and that is, how a middle class person can survive in civil services(indirectly)?yes this a serious concern to me.and the ones who say that the package offered by civil services is enough i would humbly(as humble as dust) present before them the"practical"(instead of arguements) example of 95% corrupt bureaucrats as pointed out above.

so something needs to be done about this issue.

for me i have already started to get myself engage and learn different types of businesses so that i can have an alternate source of income if i manage to become a csp.(the reason to share this is to show the concern of a middle class person towards financial package offered by civil services)

Well, Corruption Dont Need Any Class. . Officers From Middle Class Can Easily Understand The Socio-Economics Conditions Of The Society, Significantly Then That Of Elite Or Upper Class Officers. CSP officers Dont Complain About Salaries Because They Have Chooses This Field To Serve People Not To Earn Bags Full Of Money.
One Bad Fish Can Bring Bad Name To The Whole Pool . .
Please Try To Look At The Brighter And Positive Side Of The Picture Rather Then Pointing And Targeting People And Officers. Discuss Things Like What Can You Do For These People And How Can One Contribute To The Economic Conditions Of Less Privileged People Of The Society

in the current scenario,where dearth of quality jobs hinders the progress of middle/?bourgeoise/proletarian youth ,css appears to be a good avenuue for prestige.however,the carcinogenic evil of corrption is a ubiquitous evil ,not merely confined to the job holders of css but to every fiueld of society be it traders who hoard and over charge etc.

__________________
braveheart

@ Cherubic Smile:
Sir Can u give me ur email Adress

__________________
All that I am, or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother.

**********@yahoo.com

__________________
braveheart

Now that's something even a 10 year old with a mind to think will NOT agree. A Person who has not experienced how it is being rich will have the desire to be rich. A person who already have a 1000 rs, will not sell his eman for 1-2 rs. You should read something about human psychology. If "x" has always seen "y" enjoying life while "x" cannot afford those things, naturally "x" will strive and struggle to achieve more luxury or equal luxury to "y" (assume "x" is from a poor family background while "y" is rich) it's understandable and human nature

Also, NOTE that I never said that all rich people are pure and all poor people are greedy. Rich people are also greedy but logical reasoning only comes to the conclusion that poor people will be more corrupt and indulge in corruption as compared to rich people (THIS NO WHERE MEANS THAT RICH PPL WILL NEVER INDulge in corruption) Please, try to understand what im saying .. your reply was as if i am saying that all poor people are corrupt and all rich people are holy while that's not the case ..

[QUOTE=Fnoor;278825]
[quote] What about the private sectors? Where average salaries starts from PKR 15000/- or less only if someone holding minimum Masters degree with experience what about after graduation if some one goes for internship how much start he will get? [/qoute]

Do you have a slightest Idea what is the salary of bps-22 ? And Do you have any Idea, how much time does it take for one to reach bps-22 ? Most of the life is spent in 17, 18 & 19 .. do you know, how much it is? And do you know how can they pay for stuff ? Like a friend gave example, only school fee is 6-8k .. so if one has 3-4 children, all his salary will go in tuition fee ? lol so come on .. and I don't know where from you get the Idea of 15k .. I am currently doing BCS (bachelors of computer science) and I haven't completed it yet .. but still I get offers from software houses for developing software and none of the offer was below 100,000 (i'm only 21) and the code will not require more than a month effort (considering i have to do uni work etc) also, else 1-2 weeks? lol so where from you get 15k ?

They will also indulge in corruption, you just proved my point my friend. No rich person will apply for low-scale gov jobs, now don't say you disagree to this And as you see, most of corruption is done in lower gov jobs as well Why we get a corrupt name for pakistan? because here you don't even get your legal rights without paying .. even a peon makes more than a CSS officer (IF YOU GO LEGALLY IN CSS) .. I will give you an example, I recently applied for National ID Card .. My card reached already but they were delaying unless I was asked by a peon to pay him 500 rs and he'll make it faster .. I paid him 300 rs instead of 500 and he within 5 mins got me my card from the same officer who told me come after 2-3 days. NOW WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THIS ? That peon was a rich landlord, right? LOL COME ON YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT BY BRINGING THIS POINT UP BRO, so thanks

CSS officers have more responsibilities than a doctor and engineer. They have a direct effect on how our country operates. If one can clear CSS, They can very well become doctors and engineers as well.

Teaching is something If not done on a high level (i.e proffessor, asst proffesor, part time(visiting lectures)) than its just a time pass for some or a hobby .. Also, I don't need to tell you how the gov teachers are involved in corruption .. I mean, its a common knowledge .. everyone knows it

I never said give first chance to rich people, I started the thread to know what can be done because I don't know what to do. Cause If we go like you suggested (i.e giving first chance to rich people) then it is a discrimination for the poor people and ppl with not a sound financial background .. Something to which both parties agree must be done .. What it is? I don't know, I am still thinking and maybe one of you can come up with a good Idea .. Also, there are many ppl who are poor and deadly honest .. A living example is one of our professor (won't go into details) but I never said all poor are bad or all rich are good .. but i was just saying comparatively ..


As for president and ministers .. I already said, they made what they have now after coming to power. They were rich before, no doubt but not as much as they are now. Also, rich ppl can be corrupt.


I agree. But most of them (in context of beurocracy) are people from middle class families.

In my opinion middle class, in every society, always proves itself an agent of change,be it positive or negative.Hence, there is no denying the importance of this class.A thriving and awakened middle class lends a helping hand in the development of a country.Moreover, it is a generally recognized fact that middle class is more sound morally and ethically as compared to upper or lower class.So, aspirants belonging to middle class SHOULD do css.

One more thing that we SHOULD shun now is generalizing the things. There is no set criteria for ANYTHING in this world.A person belonging to middle class may be corrupt and a person of upper class may possess a strong conscience guiding him on his way to life.
Regards.

@mukt

Dear, I guess this discussion would lead u no where.The golden rule is that there is no golden rule.Everyone is responsible for ones own deeds.We need to set ourselves right, the rest doesn't matters.
Regards

We are not talking about dealing general public, we are talking about corruption and those who do CSS (their motives). Just because You are shot with a bullet and you know how it feels being shot will a bullet, does not mean that you will also feel sorry for someone else shot with a bullet and will try to do something for him/her.

To answer your comments, only a simple analysis is required. Think of "x" as being a person from a poor family background while "y" from a rich family background. "x" Posses a wealth of not more than a 100 rs while "y" already gives out regular charity and has so much to spare and has never seen shortage of money and can get whatever he wants with his money. Now, "x" and "y" are close friends. "x" will naturally want to have the luxuries of "y" (If you say no, that might be right, but for 1-15% .. If you say chances are more than that, it means you need to study human nature and human psychology) now both "x" and "y" appeared in CSS and were selected in PSP. Both of them are ASP's now. Now Mr "z" comes and he pays "x" a 100,000 for something illegal. What are the chances "x" will reject? 1% ? 2%? Now, the same "z" goes for "y" and offers him 100,000 (now "y" being so rich that he gives that much in charity) will he accept it and sell his emaan for something he doesn't even needs and care about? THINK LOGICALLY! THINK OUT OF THE BOX!!!!!!