well, i do not agree on the point of security, if u have some knowledge on the threat attacks being carried out in world (only cricketers love using burqas )! and yes I agree that we do need to grow up (read 'indeed') about our views on GORAS! we still do not bash them the way we should! the network is way complex than what we are shown! High Time!

anyways! the point of views vary person-to-person on this issue! BTW, i wish the thread does not turn into a 'just-for-the-sake-of-argument' thread!

Human societies have a natural inclination towards liberalization, democratization and secularism (Fukuyama). The evidence for this is massive. What started out in the late 18th century (American and French revolutions) continued well into the 19th century (1848 revolutions) and those ideas of individual freedom were spread all across the globe eventually, despite the best efforts of the colonial powers to stem and undermine these movements. Look what's happening in Egypt today. People are out in Iran as well but they're being brutally crushed by the clerics in power there.

So when you say "goras", what exactly are you talking about? US hegemonic neo-cons? People like Bertrand Russel and Noam Chomsky? Who?



PS: There's a cultural element to this burqa ban as well. Many French citizens are seeing that foreigners are coming into their country, settling down but not adopting the local culture. The burqa is seen as a foreign garment. Imagine what our reaction would be if French women start settling here and begin roaming around in cocktail party dresses or shorts. It's normal for them but it's shocking for our mostly sexually-frustrated youth. Coming back to the 'foreigner' element, France has taken in more Muslim refugees than any other country in Europe. When we took in 3-4 million Afghan refugees, we saw the problems associated with asylum seekers and we're still crying about the whole thing so we should cut the French some slack here.

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He conquers who endures.

Thats not true for Pakistan dear, it seems you have never met any madrassa allumni .

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The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

whats happening in Egypt today is not as simple as it seems to be! mother earth is surrounded with a lot of conspiracies! and Egypt is going to be another Iraq and Afghanistan!
When I say GORAS, I mean GORAS (ethnocentric white-skin) just like they call us "bloody asians/pakis"

There are many people in my village and its surrounding areas who have white skin, green eyes and red/brown/blond hair. Are they also included in your category? And "they" don't call us anything. Your world-view is deeply misconstrued, I must say...

Xaara, as a student of international relations, I can assure you that the conspiracy-mongers have very little or no substantial evidence at all to base their assumptions on. As people who are educated in universities and not in front of television sets, we should shun these silly and baseless theories.

Egypt was ruled by a tyrannical dictator and the people finally had enough of him. Where's the conspiracy here? Let's not even start about Afghanistan and how Pakistan is amongst the primary causes of the conflicts there.

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He conquers who endures.

have you studied france societal values ...
You are imaging veil hide expressions.
And poulation is muslim,
abundance muslim womens wore burqa...
I think you did not understand new world order and secular humanist charter,
i will first refer"karen armstrong"who was awarded best seller books and wrote books
1.battle for god
2.politcal renaissance and demise of muslim
and others too
many much..
A christian theologian very well showed their faults and conspiracies against muslims.she expressed how brutally interrupted word"jehad"which literal meaning even arabic does not correspönd to ye.
So if you are pinpoing women populace mores thand they are living in democratic society not in Asian countries which you and they ruthless criticised.
Have you study "green revolution" in Iran
that convesing the revolution of Ayotollah khomeni.you people now criticise because west criticise iran.why?iran is becoming a global power or iran had established horizontal and vertical relations that a source of check on israel and saudiarabia.egypt hatred toward turkey originated back to history.the conflict between saljuks and mohammad of egypt the revolutionst.the panist golbal agenda conflicting with burqa so they banned.in fact not france but germany and england also declared that their republic will change into islamic republic.
Now muslim converts diminishing powers and their agenda.

yes i knew bloody economic policies of anwar sadat and conflict with abu musa shakrey..
U knew egypt was a battle ground of conspiracies.what green movements now warring with ideals of iran it has succeded in egypt.as universities esp.global instiutiön Al.azhar have emulsions of these free mason society...
They succeded because there was conflict between akhwans and nationlist groups and both these groups even have gulf also widening the gape of masses with govrenments.the economic polocies bankrupted the economy .we take it as iranian white revolutiön

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

I'm sorry but I can't make heads or tails out of your post.

In any case, the French superior courts or the European court would overturn this bill. So you can rejoice.

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He conquers who endures.

I didn't know I would need to mention who are those 'white-skinned guys'... seems u ignored ETHNOCENTRIC PART!
and hey guys! anyways, this is baseless to focus staunchly on 'goras' part, I have a lot to say but I do not want to argue uselessly here just to kill time!

specifically i have nothing to do with france legislation but only that i attempted question.i have arguments.
You are saying about that legislation is in right order.but i think some concealed facts misconceived your logic.
I veiwlize these facts...
Women role can't be denied.

Wajud e zun ce he kainat me rung.
Ise ke saz ce he zindage ka soz e darun.(iqbal)

so women sketched the future abstractions..
Consider women not veil? What happened.

First burqa
2nd veil,
3rd clothes
4rth all relations.

Ye tmam khtam hojae ga..qk aj ye euro count. Me ho ra he. Ab muslim women ka in c diffusion baqe.
Look!future destroy hota he present legislation ce.theik he ye french women burqa ban ke bad kisi had tak moral raen g.magr phr
new generation and in me koe fark nae rae ga.

Have you studied "convention against all forms of discirmination against women"
u know america tak ne usko ractify nae kiya.
Obama ka khud khna he is ce child prostitution and contraception start hojae ge.
Jimmy ne us p sign kye magr aj tk ye problem zeir e behas he.
3.next act is to legalised"prostitution"
as convention intiated in 80s and china at that time economically poor.the intellectual hawks have predicted about the future of china.
They opined as prostitution is only occupation for women,therfore it be legalized.
Now our fragile norms can be compare with 17 century Daneil dafoe who optimised prostitution "Ruxana" novel.
Now watch"akhare barish ",
"larkiyan mohaley ke"
what is that?
Pakistan now ractified this convention.
Question why France need legislation as having strong media.
But islamic "aljazeera" and kuwait channel banned.
Why?
U know they are using ionosphere diplomcy.legislation needed in france that diplomcy failed in france."diamond cuts diamond"
france ambitions overlapped to israel.study history of france from Nepolean bonapart.
Lament! And lament!
I cry and cry!
I have listened scorns of Almighty..
Media changed mindset..
We need to develop our media.
Ah! And Ah!
Now they shifted war of economy to media.
We are fools!
Will remain fool..
Media famished norms and
wreck culture.
Think?
Aj new course a ra pakistan me ap ko pata isme primary ke bad ce "-----" life pe education dy ja rae.
India ."----"
Very depressed state..
Ap ne D-3 group research pary he jisme lebanon and syria me vulgarity ko btaya va.
And lebanon cosmopolitan he.so global.

Ek taraf ye ye kehty he ke tamam mulk ko democratic bnana he.dosary taraf undemocratic.
Is it democracy?

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

Some forum fellows are mocking the Islamic tradition of veil or hijab, they are going even beyond against the veil, what Freench government did. Being a muslim we have to look into this matter from Islamic point of view too, So, what do the Quran and Sunna say about hijab?

There are two ayat of the Quran that deal with hijab. These are Surah an-Nur ayah 31 and Surah al-Ahzab ayah 59. Let's look at what these ayat say, and how the Prophet (sAas) has explained them.
Surah an-Nur ayah 31 says:

And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful
Surah al-Ahzab ayah 59 says:
O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outergarments (jilbabs) close around themselves; that is better that they will be recognized and not annoyed. And God is ever Forgiving, Gentle.
Hadith
What exactly is the meaning of each of these rules? For this, we need to look to the Sunna, because the Sunna shows us how the Prophet (sAas) explained the Quran.
Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282
Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba (Radhiallaahu Ánha) "Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha) used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.
Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith # 368
Narrated 'Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha) Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) used to offer the Fajr prayer and some believing women covered with their veiling sheets used to attend the Fajr prayer with him and then they would return to their homes unrecognized .
Abu Dawood Book 32, Hadith # 4090
Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin (Radhiallaahu Ánha): When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.
Abu Dawood Book 32, Hadith # 4091
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin (Radhiallaahu Ánha) "May Allah have mercy on the early immigrant women. When the verse "That they should draw their veils over their bosoms" was revealed, they tore their thick outer garments and made veils from them”.
“Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalanee, who is known as Ameer Al-Mu'mineen in the field of Hadith, said that the phrase, "covered themselves", in the above Hadith means that they "covered their faces". [Fath Al-Bari].
Imaam Malik's MUWATTA Book 20 Hadith # 20.5.16
Yahya related to me from Malik from Hisham ibn Urwa that Fatima bint al-Mundhir (Radhiallaahu Ánha) said, "We used to veil our faces when we were in Ihram in the company of Asma bint Abi Bakr As-Siddiq (Radhiallaahu Ánha).

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“There is no God but You (Allah Almighty), You are far exalted and above all weaknesses, and I was indeed the wrongdoer”. AL-QURAN