they shudnt, the suicidal silence of military is leading pak towards anarchy, they have to speak up for raising teh flaws in this fictional story....

First of All..Ghulam Muhammad wasn't the one who was responsible for bringing Ayub..it was in Iskander Mirzas period..
secondly Mirza had imposed a temporary Martial Law,but Ayub Khan desecarated the oath that he had taken under the Pakistani constitution and became the President of the country..He basically violated ur constitution..
Thirdly,Yahya as by no means a puppet.He was a greedy person who wanted to cling to the seat of power at any cost.Agar Army ko itni sharam thi tw y did they support yahy?/q nahy uno ne appna farz nibhaya tb?
U rtawking about political deadlocks during civilian era..tell me one contry which hasn't experienced it..India k ek sal me 3 PM change huy..army ayi??India me kitni insurgency and corruption he ap ki soch he..army ayi??Nahy..coz they know k un ka mulPakistan ki trah ka undignified and i dare say failed state bn jayega jisdin army agayi national interest ka bahana kr k..the truth is that army and generals look for a chance to ome into power so that they can protect their huge economic interests..jb ap ne civilians ko chance hi nahy dia tw dont blame them

Na na,I am not against Pak Army.. I am just pointing out ill deeds of few top brass of Pakistan Army.Aur yeh poori Army ka .01% bante hain.yeh loag poori Army ko defense se hatta ke Administration side le gae hain.
Good thing is ke abb logo main awareness aa rae hai aur InshAllah Pakistan main ab democratic culture floyrish kare ga.

I would second Kamranz opinion..me bhi yhi kehne lga tha..ap ki army janti he k kargil fiasco me kis ka haath tha..jo beizzati ap k mulk ki kargil ki wajah se hui he na dunya me us k bad u have never recovered ur prestige at international stage..ap ki army apni trf se 71 ka bdla lene chali thi..they CROSSED an international border,broke ceasefire line agreement,and then when they due to their NALAYKI lost the initiative,they sent Nawaz k hmari jan bacha lo USA ko darmiyan me dal k..brother please stop believing the propaganda that ISPR,ISI and books written in Pakistan feed u..reality is utterly different..hum b Pakistani hain..is army se pyaar kurte huy bare huy he..bachpan me koi puchta tha k kya bno ge tw hum bhi kehte thay FOJI..bus barey ho k jb unbiased opinions parhi or history study ki tw is army ka asal chehra hmare samne aya..N ye bht purana or ghissa pitta jhoot he k ye mulk ISI or army ki wajah se qaim he..n this directly comes from the table of an ISPR general jo america k tukron pe or ap k merey khoon pasinay pe pal rha hey..in ki wjah se aj ap ka mulk original pakistan ki shakal me kaim hi nahy raha..ager ye politicians 62 sal rhe hotay na uninterrupted,tw aj banglades nami koi alag mulk na hota or pakistan waqai asian tiger hota..n janab army ki corruption k barey me prhna he tw ayesha siddiqua ki kitab se start lain..ap ki ankhe khul jayen gi tw mazeed kch books me khud aapko provide krnga..



Army ne..and the WORLD has unanimously agreed upon it..estimates say that 2/3rd of the total financial corruption has been done by Army,and the remaining one third by politicians and civil bureaucracy combined..A study by Kings College London(unpublished due to obvious reasons) nominates Pakistan Army is the MOST corrupt institution in the WORLD..bus army ki corruption samne nahy ati q k wo ane nahy daite..just tell me ojhri camp civilian govt ne kraya tha??30000 bengali auraton ka rape ap ne me ne kia tha??N janab ye kashmir k narey kitabon me jalson me acche lagte hey..ap ki army india se 2 kanal ka plot bhi qabza nahy churwa sakti ap chale kashmir fatah kurne..u shud know that Pakistan was bound by international agreements which it broke when it attacked Kargil...brother jazbaat nahy facts k saath aiyey..

Why we blaming ISI and Army......We selected Prime minister and president,they have to answer.Army chief is head of the army whereas president is the head of the state.if you want to blame then PM and President is the right person.Due to huge corruption we cannot purchase spy equipment.our ISI need latest equipment to boost the intelligence share...

Always our leaders says we need Aid in the form of money..no one can ask Aid to build Dams,surveillance Technology,latest weapons for military.In reality if we demand to build a dam for us then how our leader fill there pockets purchase expensive vehicles ....what ISI do alone (in between corrupt leaders,musaad,Raw,Cia,mi6,fsb,irani intelligence,afghan intelligence) how come ISI fight with them alone.....PM gillani sab knows that ,that is his first and last tenure ,so he decided to eat as mush as he can with 6 hands whatever if we sell the people of the pakistan.

But i have trust on my GOD,surly he will help us.Ainshallah


bus karo kamran Democratic culture essa humain nhn chahye ais say to army culture !00 gunah acha tha

I would just give a small example..General Nagra and General Amrit Singh Arora are 2 names of whose match u cant find a person in ur military history..They were instrumental in India humiliating Pak in 1971 war and basically,for the departure of more than half the Pakistan..they were brilliant soldiers..but when they retired in 1972 and 1973,they were given no extension and neither did they put up a request for the same..it is reported that Mr Nagra quietly packed up,and the next day he had left the Govt residence given to him..he didn't even have a home of his own he spent his days in a rented house but never asked for a prime DHA plot..same goes with general A.S Arora..this is the case of a victorious army..meanwhile in Pakistan,generals of that era,most notably Gul Hassan(A loser general of a loser army) was given extension alongwith other generals who had lost the war..they had pressurized the democratic govt to do so or had threatened to take over..All the incompetent officers who had lost the war,including Tiger Niazi,were restored full military honour and were given perks,priveleges and emoluments fit for a king...65 ki war harne k bad bhi Ayub Khan added FIELD MARSHALL to his name..brother Kamran wud correct me if I am wrong but I dont think any Indian general(who had won all the wars) ever had a Field Marshall attached to his name...janab..this is the difference between a professional,one of the worldz best armies,and a bunch or property dealers...

Seriously Mr Saqib,everything u have said is completely wrong..I can deny it with references but I wouldn't waste my time in re inventing the wheel...WE HAD NO SPY EQUIPMENT?WE GOT NO AID TO BUY WEAPONS FOR THE MILITARY???.Pakistan army is the 3RD LARGEST RECEIVER OF AMERICAN AID AFTER ISRAEL AND EGYPT..IT HAS THE BEST EQUIPMENT..Or defence failure pe bhi Gilani jawab de??Foj ko kya modelling kurne k lye rakha hua he??information in k radars se nahy mile gi tw kya hamid meer or geo news ne btana tha army ko k USA ghuss aya he andar...please for GODZZZZZ SAKE brother koi ek tw sahy bat kar lo jis pe koi yakin bhi kre...

@ Brother Polaris

there may be a thousand people who are against my stance,cssforum might proceed to delete my posts,agencies can put negatives in my intelligence report,one day i might well end up deep down tarbela dam for speaking against Army,but truth I know and truth I shall speak Inshalah..I am not Gallelio jisey zabardasti koi appna byan badalne pe majboor kar deyga..I just hope k hmare baki bhaiyon behno ko bhi Allah sach janne,samajhne or us pe amal kurne ki tofeek de..wo sch jo bengalion ne aj se 40 sal pehle hi jan lia tha..Somebody has to come up with the truth and I appreciate those enlightened few who acknowledge the truth..jis din is kom ko ye akal agayi na k in ka asal dushman khakiz me 3 stars apney shoulder pe lga k in k mulk me hi betha he,us din se is mulk ki taqdeer badal jaygi Inshalah...We shall find the truth and the truth shall set us free..

Bachay kitabi batain aur hoti hain aur practically kuch aur...koi bachaa yahan hye to essay aa k samjhaoo ......bchay ye kitabo main likho to number milay gay acha...main ehmqo k moo nhn lagta....

I would say ur view is optimistic..The army which couldn't win a single war has no chance of conquering Kashmir..and ap ne jo kitabain parhi hain about surrender of Dhaka I know kis ki likhi hongi..so frankly I would say I don't believe them..This is just a Pakistani who doesn't want to digest the bitter truth speaking..n jahan tk rhi bat retired army geneals ki tw any good student of history wud rather believe that sun rises in the west rather than beleiveing a services person from Pakistan..jo log constitution pe lia hua oath bhool jayen un ka me believe nahy kar sakta..again I would say not only I,but the world denies what u are claiming..

Gentlemen,
When we go to extreme, we often forget the realities. The army is not composed of "Angels" and the politicians are not "criminals" Both the groups have all type of people within their folds. However, the activities of some bring bad name for the whole institution. As all belong to our society, we should not use indecent words about them as it will create more problems for us. The percentage of good people is always greater then bad people and that is why system is going on. Lets encourage the good people where ever they are found and serving Pakistan without any personal agenda.

__________________
/// Aur be ghum hain zamanay main muhabat kay siwa ///

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OMG ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL LOLOLOLOL .. PLEASE NAME ONLY 1 WAR, AND I LITERALLY MEAN ONLY 1 WAR WHICH WAS LOST BY ANY NATION OR TRIBE WITHOUT ANY REASON? I seriously laughed so much (no offense) but what you said is just very funny hahah "jangen harien but kis wajah say" lololol THERE IS ALWAYS A REASON, and the LOSER has many reasons of course but the reason is more of an excuse, this is what you fail to realize.

What? That does not even make sense? Please elaborate what exactly are you trying to say.

kaun buri tarah hara? buri tarah harna 71 ko kahtay hain, is ko nahi.. do you even have neutral sources on loses in 65 war? I bet you don't because if you did you will realize that pakistan was only superior in aerial combat, for the rest the indian enjoyed superiority and you didn't even captured 0.0000000000001 inch of their land on perm basis

Acha ????? So zulfikar forced the army (literally in THOUSANDS) and nearly a lakh almost, to surrender ? What a shame it was .. Har to waisi bi thi, lar kar hartay to aaj sir fakhar say uncha hota .. but no, we dropped weapons and that is Indeed a fact .. and a HUGE land was taken from us .. now blame india for this or local bangalis or whatever, the fact will not change that pakistan BADLY lost and faced SEVERE humiliation and i think those in army who surrendered should have jumped into a lake rather than participating in such shameful act knowing they could have put up a good fight ..

Again, the losers will also have "EXCUSES" what you will call "REASONS" for losing. There is no war lost without any reason and if there is I request you to name it