Look I dont consider you apt enough to undertake the above discussion with you. Thats cuz you rely more on your Airhead self than concrete evidence. I seriously didnt even read any of the above stuff you've given bcuz you have a habit of giving 'statements' not arguments. You sound like an over-zealous schoolboy, eager to awe people with newly learnt stuff. As ive already challenged you previously, that if you're really interested in testing your knowledge, try posting onto defense related forums where they will "RIP YOU INTO SHREDS" for your immature tactics. I dare you. The day you've received applaud for your wonderful ideas, feel free to post the page link where people have done so. And mind you, the kind of forums Im referring to are frequented by active soldiers, defense analysts from ALL over the world. Haankte waqt khayal rakhna zara.

Concrete evidence ? I am surprised an emotional talker who constantly engages in talks that are not only funny but have no relation whatsoever with truth, facts, proof and logic now talks of evidence.

If you stop being emotional and If you analyze neutral figures you will find enough evidence but If you stick to biased sources then good luck.


Oh, Please don't let your mind wander as it's way to small to be outside by itself

Saying the truth is immature? Mentioning facts that hurts your ego is immature? Giving credit to the enemy where it's due is immature? pointing out weaknesses for improvement is immature? Disagreeing with you is immature ? When you don't have an answer, the opponent is immature? If the answer is yes to all these questions then all I can say is "OK" haha

oh noes, I am scared! Honestly, I will speak against them openly and whenever and/or wherever I feel like. I have lost all the respect I had for the army and ISI because of their shameful performance and double standards. They don't learn from their mistakes and they don't strive to correct their mistakes. They are more interested in pleasing americans rather than my country, I give a damn about them.

Please note when I say the army has adopted double standards and have shown incompetence every now and then and are having a shameful performance, I don't mean to say that EACH and EVERY army official is that way. No, not at all but MOST of them and those who matter (leadership of army) are Indeed involved.

Bottom Line : Army & ISI are the biggest enemies of pakistan followed by the other(s) I mentioned. ISI should stop taking part in politics by getting involved in political games and neither should ARMY strive for leadership of the country. Army should protect and secure the borders (which they have failed to do so every now and then) and the ISI should strive to secure the country by being serious in intelligence gathering where they should (terrorism, enemy countries planning) instead of local politics for $$ and other personal gains.


And oh, as the saying goes "Keep talking, someday you'll say something intelligent." so yeah, I hope one day you will say something Intelligent

Both you are extermely emotional..
Both of you are right to some extent..
@ Mukt..You are right but its not so severe as you mentioned bro..and you know you are in css forum...beaurocrats too are responsible however we are talking too much here but practicle life goes 180 degrees opposite...
@ Aphrodite...Yes There is much positive on their side too...I agree some statements by him were too much harsh but we must listen to one's point of view and argue with him positively...

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

corruption is that virus which effect Pakistan internally,

We couldn't singleout any particular institution, class or group. We are all responsible for this state of failure. As a nation we have to accept our responsibility and make ourselves worthy for Pakistan.
Yeh uqda khul nai paata humaari kam-nigaai mein
k apne haath b shamil ain apni her taba'ai mein

__________________
“There is no God but You (Allah Almighty), You are far exalted and above all weaknesses, and I was indeed the wrongdoer”. AL-QURAN

Lol...writing garbage down online is easy. Try saying all this in front of 2-3 generals (if you qualify for CSS, u will get to meet one). Wahan saanp soong jata hai aap jaise self-proclaimed Jiyalon ka.
And frankly speaking I dont care what some home-grown, pseudo-intellectual guy nicknamed 'mukt' thinks. Neither have you been 'logical' or 'rational' in the past, and i dont expect that to change anytime soon. I dont know from where you've garnered this self-glorification because it makes you look humiliated in the end. But sooner or later we all get a wake-up call. Nothing in your writing can be hailed because they are lopsided statements, stripped off of real facts (its not enough to point out we had an attack on our base. there are other facts myopic people like you dont have the substance to judge, nor substantial reading habit to back it with. Just stick to finishing those math textbooks you've been reading and watching Geo round the clock, will you? Good boy, because thats the only intellect youve gained in almost 3 decades).
I have enough answers to set a dodo like you flying off, trust me. But since its established you indeed are nothing more than a 'dodo'- I wont waste any more effort on you. I have already done that in the previous post.
However, if you think you can talk smart with me- the above is a synopsis you need to remember, because I promise you, I can insult your sensibilities more than you will be able to do to me. So now, Be off!

Rameez, you dont know about this guy. I've had detailed, futile discussions with him on another post. Apart from a newly-programmed army-bashing stance, and over-smart maneuvers he doesnt have much to offer. He thinks by going on like this, he can successfully run you down- and believe me, he thinks he is actually great at it. When someone applauds you for what you've said- he I guess, runs to the nearest mod and gets that specific comment removed. So much for a punctured ego. Anyways, its after all that head-banging convo that Ive decided not to talk to this person, and since he thinks he can have a way with words, I thought Id give him a piece of my mind instead.
Regards,

No poor civilion can raise voice against them....but plz know what the whole world say.

Sun to sahee jahan main hay tera Fasana Kia
Kahtee Hay tujh koo Khalq-Khuda Ghaibana Kia

You must elaborate further as to who can speak against a General otherwise he will face the same fate as that of Saleem Shahzad.

One thing more , i can name hundereds of politicions and political workers who rendered sacrifices for the country and democracy and were persecuted by Army then why people like you disgrace the who political institution? I belive that as a whole our political class is much better than army.

__________________
Hoee hay jab say mukhalif hawa zamanay key......
Humain bhee dhun see hoee hay diaa jalaanay key

you're very right saleeqa

darasal kuch log hotey hain, agar un sey related (directly or indirectly) kisi idarey ko criticize kia jaye tu woh samajhty hain jaisey unki apni zaat pe kisi ney criticize kia ho.. chahey sachaye kia bhi ho woh log apni jhooti mohabbat sey baz nahi atey.. mujhey nai pata log army ko itna sar ankho pe kyu rakh key bethey hain k agar army ko kisi ney kuch keh diya tu jaisey koi gunah kar dia ho.. mukt is targeted, not because he's against someone's point of view but only because he's against the sins of army.. aur logo sey yeh hazum nai ho raha k army ko criticise kia jaye.. kyu bhai.. kyu na karein.. are they Gods or are you so cowards that you cant even dare to hear against them..???

baki rehney do lekin killing of journalists, abduction of hundreds of innocents on name of investigation, chasing bureaucrats and politicians in order to blackmail them and earn millions, occupying lands of the country... yeh kia sub nazar nahi araha logo ko..??!! phir kehtey hain generals ko yeh bol ke dikhao... what a sense!! jis ke hath mein bandook ho koi nihatta us sey kaisey kuch bol sakta hai..! seriously mujhey dukh hota hai ke kisi aisey idarey ko khaw makha itni onchayee aur sar ankho pe bithana jis ka kam sirf borders ko secure karna hai.. jab ke yahan dosrey itney idarey hain jin ko jitni izat aur ehtaram milna chahiye woh nai milta

jis ko chahey criticize karna ho karey.. like mukt i would say..
is mulk ka sub sey bara enemy koi aur nahi balkey fouji hain.. inho ney he darasal is azeem aur gareeb mulk ka bera garq kia huwa hai..

Very simple not only our politicians, but we also, are not the person of our words.
We seventeen billions, our government, policy makers, judiciary, bureaucracy and many more can be entitled as enemies of Pakistan.

You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a damn. I don't know If I will qualify CSS or not but If I did and If I encountered a General and If they asked my views regarding the subject then let me assure you my views will be the same (if army changes itself till then, then that's another issue)

See ? Not even a single evidence and/or proof, just talks. Calling you stupid would be an insult to stupid people. Just wondering, Have you considered suing your brains for non support?


Thank you for the advise and you should follow it too because previous experience has shown how weak you are at math and logic in particular.


All I can say is that if ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person alive.



You proved nothing in that discussion, only emotional talks glorifying army and ISI for no good reason. Facts and figures, logic, evidence & neutral sources were all against your stand and proved your stand for army emotional & false. You, once again in this thread started to defend them and instead of blaming our own weaknesses for our problems you picked the easy way out which is "pointing fingers" at other states.



SIDE NOTE : You made a claim that I go to mods and get some posts removed, LOLOLOL. That's the most funniest thing I've ever heard and now everyone who is familiar with this forum will know and learn more about your brain. You just proved you always talk about things of which you have no Idea about. Now some facts ;

1 - I NEVER GOT YOUR POSTS REMOVED
2 - MODS REMOVED SEVERAL POSTS OF MINE (IN PAST)
3 - MODS are NOT MY FRIENDS, IN FACT, I AM THE MOST HATED PERSON ON THIS FORUM
4 - I WILL KEEP ON BUSTING YOUR MYTHS AND YOU WILL ALWAYS FIND ME WHENEVER YOU MAKE FALSE STATEMENTS, DON't MIND BUT THIS IS DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM HAHAHA ENJOY