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  #41  
Old Tuesday, June 28, 2011
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Originally Posted by SADIA SHAFIQ View Post
I do not agree with your last point.Ayub khan is not the first who denied political rights of Muslims.it was first denied my governor general ghulam muhammed who dismissed bengali PM of pakistan "husaaian shaeed seharwardi".PM .M.A .Bogra also formulated fine peace of constitution ,even bengali and west pakistani agreed to accept this constitution.but again assembly was dissolved and PM Bogra was dismissed.ayub was not the first but amongst those who had exploited the rights of bengla.

second,here we are discussing relation of democracy with economic development.we should mention those facts which are related to economy.if you are saying democracy is best then i will agree .but for this you have to show Pakistan economy really prospered if this system would have been adopted? if yes then why present govt is failed. do not mention the terrorism as a fact because Musharraf regime tackled it and 9/11 ka incidents be fresh tha and govt ko tb pressure bht zaida tha west ce tb be taraqe hev .why? and musharraf ka era economic development k e lehaz ce sunheri kehlata he
Well , i agree that injustices were meted out to Banglese well before Ayub Khan.Even the dismissal of Khaja Nazim-ud-Din and assembaly by Ghulam Muhammad was the first blow to National Harmonery .But before Ayub Khan, Banglese for not thinking for a separate state.They were struggling only for there political rights with in the state.And GHulam Muhammad was not a politician , he was a bureaucrate who never participated in political process.If politics hade been allowed to take its route , situation would have been different.

As for as economy is concerned , Mushraff ruled for a decade and atleast till 2008 he was absolute ruler of Pakistan.Though the economy witnessed turnaround but it had no solid base.Few reasons,inter-alia, that contributed to economic recovery included
1- Scores of public sector entities were privatized generating billions of cash inflow
2-Global Economic Recovery
3-Inflow of foreign remitance and shifting of Capital from developed countries in the wake of 9/11.

Still the economy started declining during 2007. The dictator during his sway did nothing for the real issue that are crippling the econmy such as energy shortage.By saying so , i am not supporting the current dispensation as they have done little in this regard.But saying that Musharaf boosted economy and laid the roots of economic development is equally unfair.
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  #42  
Old Tuesday, June 28, 2011
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Originally Posted by Saleeqa Batool View Post
As for as economy is concerned , Mushraff ruled for a decade and atleast till 2008 he was absolute ruler of Pakistan.Though the economy witnessed turnaround but it had no solid base.
Who is going to decide this that there was no solid base of that economy, i think that we are not the part of concerned departments and also we are not capable enough who actually analyse about the economic condition, the things were going in right direction that time it means those policies have strength to boost the economy, but as Mr. Musharraf moved out, the old less educated but i must say the illiterate people took place and they want things to go in their prescribed way and when those things failed, they used the old blame game and easily all the burden moved to Mr. Musharraf...i dont understand how things become bad in long term when they worked perfectly for around 4 or 5 years...

Quote:
Still the economy started declining during 2007. The dictator during his sway did nothing for the real issue that are crippling the econmy such as energy shortage.By saying so , i am not supporting the current dispensation as they have done little in this regard.But saying that Musharaf boosted economy and laid the roots of economic development is equally unfair.
Yes, economy started declining in 2007, but that particular recession was witnessed globally so you cannot linked that with Mr. Musharraf's policy...
if you can recall, Kala Bagh Dam issue was very much in news that time but due to selfish people they didnt allow Mr. Musharraf to work on that project..and he was very much in favour of this project and if he acted that time as (so called)Dictator than no one can stop him from doing so but for the sake of Democracy he wanted that to be fulfill with the consent of Majority in assembly but unfortunately some of the people due to their biased approach they didnt let that happened, due to which we are facing this issue...
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  #43  
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Originally Posted by Rixwan View Post
Who is going to decide this that there was no solid base of that economy, i think that we are not the part of concerned departments and also we are not capable enough who actually analyse about the economic condition, the things were going in right direction that time it means those policies have strength to boost the economy.
Though during the musharaf regime our GDP was growing at constant pace and a boost was witnessed in the services sector yet it was a fact that he didn't broaden the tax net.That is why it was a temporary boost.He abolished the wealth tax which was previously 2.5%.Circular debt is the subtle sign of his generosity.



Yes, economy started declining in 2007, but that particular recession was witnessed globally so you cannot linked that with Mr. Musharraf's policy...
if you can recall, Kala Bagh Dam issue was very much in news that time but due to selfish people they didnt allow Mr. Musharraf to work on that project..and he was very much in favour of this project and if he acted that time as (so called)Dictator than no one can stop him from doing so but for the sake of Democracy he wanted that to be fulfill with the consent of Majority in assembly but unfortunately some of the people due to their biased approach they didnt let that happened, due to which we are facing this issue...
Pakistan was very slightly affected by recession because we were not dependent on our exports,which had very little share in our foreign reserves.
How could he make kalabagh at the expense of three provinces,atleast Pakistan is a federation.
our politician are illiterate and incompetent.i agree. however,Generals are nobody to set the rules for statecraft because they are graduated with a limited scope from PMA.He provided safe sanctuaries to the so called our strategic assets for gaining strategic depth in Afghanistan.
  #44  
Old Wednesday, June 29, 2011
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Originally Posted by Saleeqa Batool View Post
Well , i agree that injustices were meted out to Banglese well before Ayub Khan.Even the dismissal of Khaja Nazim-ud-Din and assembaly by Ghulam Muhammad was the first blow to National Harmonery .But before Ayub Khan, Banglese for not thinking for a separate state.They were struggling only for there political rights with in the state.And GHulam Muhammad was not a politician , he was a bureaucrate who never participated in political process.If politics hade been allowed to take its route , situation would have been different.

.
yes .. i agree what you have stated but tell me about the controversial character of zulfiqar .why he sided mujibb six points during ayub regime and opposed the during his reign.the same thing is with Tashkent declaration ;he used this weapon to overthrow the ayub regime but when he came to power the why he signed shimla declaration .he also did what ayub did and why he was not ready to solve the problem of bengla ? After debacle of bengla he remained for 7 year a ruler of Pakistan without election ..this is what we called democracy???


Quote:
As for as economy is concerned , Mushraff ruled for a decade and atleast till 2008 he was absolute ruler of Pakistan.Though the economy witnessed turnaround but it had no solid base.Few reasons,inter-alia, that contributed to economic recovery included
1- Scores of public sector entities were privatized generating billions of cash inflow
2-Global Economic Recovery
3-Inflow of foreign remitance and shifting of Capital from developed countries in the wake of 9/11.

Still the economy started declining during 2007. The dictator during his sway did nothing for the real issue that are crippling the econmy such as energy shortage.By saying so , i am not supporting the current dispensation as they have done little in this regard.But saying that Musharaf boosted economy and laid the roots of economic development is equally unfair
please explain your last point .yes you are right and i agreed to your first two points.but tell me , if we look back a few decades ago then privatization/denationalization policy is also followed in 1990s. but then our economic condition were not improved.
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  #45  
Old Wednesday, June 29, 2011
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Originally Posted by SADIA SHAFIQ View Post
yes .. i agree what you have stated but tell me about the controversial character of zulfiqar .why he sided mujibb six points during ayub regime and opposed the during his reign.the same thing is with Tashkent declaration ;he used this weapon to overthrow the ayub regime but when he came to power the why he signed shimla declaration .he also did what ayub did and why he was not ready to solve the problem of bengla ? After debacle of bengla he remained for 7 year a ruler of Pakistan without election ..this is what we called democracy???


please explain your last point .yes you are right and i agreed to your first two points.but tell me , if we look back a few decades ago then privatization/denationalization policy is also followed in 1990s. but then our economic condition were not improved.

ZAB never supported Mujeeb Six point that amounted to turning Federation of Pakistan into confederation.Yes , during the crises , ZAB agreedv to 5 points and pledged to resolve differences over the reamining point.However , i wont comment further over it.Separation movement instigated during period of a General Ayub and reached its logical end in the period of second General but politicions are blamed for this.Pakistan Army inflicted inhumane punishments on Bangalese , People were killed, Women were raped but we are fort of Isalm.World is behind us.We are innocent.Politicion are corupt.Army, the ar,my of Islam Innocent.No further comments...
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  #46  
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Saleeqa people have been deliberately kept in dark by those who control the affairs.Though the politicians are not angel , and they have lowest approval rate across the globe, given the nature of their job, the dictators who ruled the country for much of its existence , are responsible for majority of our woes. Terrorism , Militancy , extremism , Sectarian Violence and Provincial Disharmony are the evils exclusively germinated by Generals.But we can do nothing.I foresee another Military take-over in near future and i believe if it happened so, it would prove fatal for Pakistan.
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  #47  
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Originally Posted by Rixwan View Post
Who is going to decide this that there was no solid base of that economy, i think that we are not the part of concerned departments and also we are not capable enough who actually analyse about the economic condition
Musharraf didnot provide solid base to the economy as he didnot do anything to industrialize the economy and increase country's gross production levels. He only brought foreign money in the country and it was distributed among the people in form of credits etc ... Now that the money he brought has been spent, we are back to old days . This is the simplest explanation that can be given.
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  #48  
Old Saturday, July 09, 2011
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The learned members who oppose democracy for being not practicable in Pakistan should also tell as to which system then suits well? Should Army Chief be ex-officio head of Govt? If not democracy than army is the only second option. But have you thought that if such system is adopted what consequences it would have? Is it practcable? For example if army chief hold the chair of head of Govt , what would be the succession arangements? Will he relinquish the charge untill he is forced to do?And what chaos would ensue in case an incumbent army chief cum head of Govt is forced to leave or he is died?Who will succeed him? What would happen if suppose an army chief after remaining in power for decade , passes away than who will appoint the new one?and what if a group of Generals have objection over it?

In perpetual Military Rule , how the political parties will be dealt with ? Obviously persecussion and repression will be the mode to silent the voices against the Govt?

And what would happen if a Gneral like yahaya Khan Came in to power? In Democracy at least people have option to get rid of the incompetent rulers after a definite period but how a General will be replaced?
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  #49  
Old Sunday, July 10, 2011
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Originally Posted by Saleeqa Batool View Post
The learned members who oppose democracy for being not practicable in Pakistan should also tell as to which system then suits well? Should Army Chief be ex-officio head of Govt? If not democracy than army is the only second option. But have you thought that if such system is adopted what consequences it would have? Is it practcable? For example if army chief hold the chair of head of Govt , what would be the succession arangements? Will he relinquish the charge untill he is forced to do?And what chaos would ensue in case an incumbent army chief cum head of Govt is forced to leave or he is died?Who will succeed him? What would happen if suppose an army chief after remaining in power for decade , passes away than who will appoint the new one?and what if a group of Generals have objection over it?

In perpetual Military Rule , how the political parties will be dealt with ? Obviously persecussion and repression will be the mode to silent the voices against the Govt?

And what would happen if a Gneral like yahaya Khan Came in to power? In Democracy at least people have option to get rid of the incompetent rulers after a definite period but how a General will be replaced?
Infact, Military still is ruling over the country and it has been since 1956. The miitary government sometimes is in covert or open. Now it is covert.
Truly speaking, Our religion emphasizes for Khilafat.
Do u call the current govt a democratic govt? LOL
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  #50  
Old Sunday, July 10, 2011
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Originally Posted by Cherubic Ravian View Post
We are getting nothing positive, in this democratic era of Pakistan; it is quite obvious. Some times, the present scenario compels me to think weather the Musharraf regime was more better than Zerdari\'s; though there was little ban on freedom of media but there was no brutal killings of media persons; though there was war on terror but no violation of border lines. Does this means we were living in more secure and prestigious manners in a democratic era; is it true that democracy does not suits a third world country like Pakistan?????
Democracy is a flawed system.It is highly unsuitable not only for Pakistan but also for any other country.With democracy,you can not run a house properly,how can you run a whole state?
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