@faseeh muhammad

bro, perhaps you havn,t understood what the topic was.
i am not having a view to devise an offense against anyone.infact,we are being obleterated and a victim of many concealed offences from our foes.
so,inorder to bolster ourself,we should be prepared enough to offer a sound feedback to our adversories.and this can only be done by strategically creating a strategy to oust foreign elements and to bring halt to indian "cold start doctrine" (aimed at annexing islamabad and disintegrating pakistan).
and this was admitted by former indian army chief that they possess such as mind set.
so, who is waging a war?
and,who is the victim?
would that be wrong to get ourself prepared for an already planned war(which was predicted too by muslim eminents),and that is going to become a crystal clear reality owing to current indian designs in central asia and on western border of pakistan.

if any fool believes that he can ensure peace by only and only "jihad bil qalam and jihad bil nafs ,,,while neglecting the value of sword to safeguard our civilization..then what we can do?

in words of former "US" president NIXON
"power itself has an imperative.use it otherwise it will be used against you."

---if your enemy wages a low intensity warfare in your northern ,western and central regions ,steals your waters,captures siachin,deploys 13 divisions of fresh army on your eastern border,and installs seven counslates near DURAND LINE..... THEN;
HOW CAN YOU BE ON YOUR BACKFOOT TO CHASE SUCH AS HIGH VALUE CHALLENGES?
---SO, YOU NEED TO BE AT THE FRONT FOOT.WHICH MEANS AN offensive POLICY.

it doesn,t mean to drop 100 nukes on india. but,to arrange and create a more effective regional set up by collaborating with regional powers and by many other endeavours.
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Are these enemies really capable of doing any harm to Muslim world?
My answer is “NO, Not at all”. No one can harm the Muslim world until we are a true patriot, a true Muslim.

Take case of Pakistan. Have any Non-Muslim asked us to take bribe, to lot public funds, to kill innocent people, to rape women, to waste money in merry making and leave masses without a loaf of bread to eat. We see every day on television that dozen of people are killed across the country without even knowing why they have been killed. Have we been compelled by any Non-Muslim to do so? Infect, we our self are infected. So why to blame western world. They are loyal to their faith; they are loyal to their country. BUT ARE WE?? Answer is yet another big “NO”.

“Yes they facilitate crime” but they do not compel us to commit crime and by the way we are not so insane to become the victim of their plans, if there are any. Thus they set up a Swiss bank to provide us a save place to keep our black money, but do they press us to make black money? Answer is “Not at all”.
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irrelevant argument because i am talking pertaining to PAK_INDIA ISSUE AND its PROPHECIES .and not regarding muslim ummah.
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So the problem lies with in us, not in “US”!!
Yes, it is true that we recite Kalma & believe on life after death, yet these concepts are alien to us in practical life. The faith can be divided into two parts for simplification. Part one encompasses some fundamental believes that shape our life regarding Allah & Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Rest is “Haqooq”. What to say of Haqooq Ul Ibad, we have not been paying heed to “Haqood Ullah”. If we have been following the Haqooq Ul Ibad, the level of governance has not been so bad in our country.
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irrelevant,because the subject matter is not about haqooq ul ibad and social deprivation in muslim ummah.
__________________________________________________ ___________-__
the following headings of the argument are irrelevant:
-jihad bil qalam
-jihad bil saif and hijrat movement


----------again you have said:
Is it really necessary to include India in the list of our enemies? My stance is “No”. Let us stop this hate politics. People, including former military leaders justified their existence due to “India is our enemy” stance. Again it is our lack-ness that India has become a major threat to us. We have been sleeping while it was building its country.
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perhaps you do not know that it is not pakistan who has nurtured hatred against india.it is india who has been engaging us continuously by kashmir,dams on our rivers,sircreek,siachin,"7" counslates near western borders ,patronizing BLA,TALIBAN.
what we have been doing since 64 years is not the hatred but COUNTER HATRED.
we have to be friends with india.but,perhaps,indian establishment is not willing to restore pakistan,s rights to live with kashmir,its rivers,peace and tranquility.

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Things are not that simple Mr. Emraan. You should remember that sectarian differences are present at large in between Muslims. Those in Middle East & UAE label Indian Muslims as “Mulhid and Mushrik” & those of our label them “Gumrah and Fashiq”.

There has been a plate form called OIC. It has been tagged “Teeth less tiger” for its almost zero progress. Besides, these Middle East countries were the key players in dismembering ottoman caliphate, if I am wrong kindly correct me. Who can make them leave their path on just one hadith!! I think I should stop living in the world of dreams.
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Quote:agreed
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Once there was time when negotiations and dialogues were held on “Equity Basis”. Now talking with India in our concern and not there’s. If you want to get your water out of it, you will have to talk and listen to her.
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not agreed.because we are not their slaves to do what they want.
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It feels like reading a “Suspense Story” dear. Yes it should be so, as said Naimat Shah, but should it not be right to first put your won house in order and then try to conquer neighboring countries?
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do you think that cutting the supply lines,ensuring the availability of arms and latest technology,counter intelligence etc are "SUSPENCE STORIES".
IF,these are like that then why your socalled friend INDIA is practically following this suspence story against pakistan?
it has been proved.
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There is no draw back in regional alliances but I think china and Russia as it may be, are more interested in developing economy of Pakistan rather then tighten circle against India and fighting her along with forces of Pakistan. If you think china and Russia will agree to such a suggestion of Pakistan, could you please provide any action of theirs who support your argument?

I think this should be enough to elaborate my point. Prophesies and prediction come true but not this way. While we follow the policy:

“Gunnah Khud Karo aur Laanat Shytan Per Bhaijo”

…we cannot blame anyone but our self for the demise of Muslim world. Unless we change ourselves, no such prophecy appears to come true. Believe me.
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we should work on enhancing our economy as well as on security endeavours as presented in hadiths and anticipating remarks of ouliyahs as well as by currently emerging scenario in the region.
regards!

@ Ali Emraan Sb

My argument was simple and it should be read like this:
If India is war monger and aggressive, then generate funds to fight her first and read this prophecy then.

And if you got standard of your own for relevance and irrelevant then perhaps no one in this forum can argue with you. From your post what I can understand is that you are overwhelmed by a prophecy that has some prerequisites attached with it. No war can be won without money in your bank accounts. No war can be won without the support of your nation.

By the way Pakistani including you and me are not that insane that they can be victimized. They have got brain enough to make views and post them on these threads, at least few like you and me. They have got talent, that too to the level of excellence - in robbing and looting national wealth to a level that we stand amongst top ten countries in raking of corruption and you still think we are victimized. Do not make me laugh.

Idea of Jihad bin Nafas & Jihad Bil Qalam is TOTALLY RELEVANT because you need to improve your attitude first and then ask or blame any one else for your worries. You cant just simply blame India & US or any one else for your problem. Its a Joke and its childish!!


If India has been withholding Kashmir and creating insurgency in Baluchistan and making dams to steal your water, have you been sleeping for last 60 year?? What have you done to control the situation? Do you think you can simply start a war and make India bow down to you? Again if you start a war, do you have money to continue it? Do you think masses that are starving for food in Pakistan will support yet another war on this simple prediction. So stop dreaming in day time and make real time judgement!!

Dear Super Powers in this world are no more Super Military Powers, actually they are Super Economic Powers, we must acknowledge this fact.

This was my most pains-taking effort on this forum while i started explain any opinion. I have tried to be simple and too the point as much as i can. If any one do not want to understand, stay happy! Keep your self contended with this prophecy.

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Thanks & Regards
Faseeh

@faseeh muhammad

1]"generate funds n then fight with india"...
-----i never disagreed
2]"jihad bil nafs,and bil qalam.....were not discussed in relevance to the subject matter. otherwise i fully agree at the vitality of such as endeavours.
3]"super powers are actually economic powers".

------------------are bhai, yeh aap kahan chale gaye.main yeh maanta hoon keh aisa he hai.lakin what i wanted to say was that;

"TO FOLLOW SUCH AS PROPHECIES,WE SHOULD BE READY TO KEEP THE PACE AND NATIONAL SPIRIT ALIVE IN ALL ARENAS(INCLUDING YOUR ECONOMY)."

---bhai jaan! aap se yeh kis ne kaha keh mein ECONOMY KA DUSHMAN HOON.
hamara asal maqsad annexation or whatsoever written in authentic n time-testedprophecies...he hoona chahiye.kiyon keh yed QUOL E RASOOL hai.

aap again IRRELEVANT na hoon.
regards.

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ali imraan

@ Ali Emraan Sb.

I have neither discarded the value Hadiths as part of our believe neither has anything new to say, for I have explained whatever I wanted to.

If we started Spinning entire policy making web round this Hadith then we will end up in a Police State as has been earlier said by Muhammad T S Awan, and that for sure was not the purpose of creation of Pakistan!!

I think Sir Syed Ahmed Khan's idea of fortification of religion with logic was intended for people like us. If you can understand this logic, all of my points and criticism will stand highly RELEVANT!! Thanks

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Thanks & Regards
Faseeh

@faseeh muhammad

you said;
1]we will end up as a police state if we follow this hadith...

ANSWER: muslims conquered canstantople to meet the prophecy.
israel is a republic even when they follow the spiritual dimensions torule the whole world (a few issues of neighbours..agreed)
india is swelling as a giant just to materialize their dream to create a greater or" AKHAND BHARAT".

so, bro,don,t worry about that.

2]sir syed,s logic to fortify religion...

ANSWER:
he never wanted a secular state. if, he wanted,then kindly paste at least one statement of him in which he had used such as terminology.
if you mean that we should keep on preparing for glory by avoiding war and enhancing economy only...then we can,t do this because;

a)our rival has launched unceasing war in our streets as well as on both sides of the borders.we cannot avoid this.
b)this is the landscape of great games where the DARWIN,s theory of survival of the fittest is applicable.
a weak nation having a goat,s desire to live within own territory and killing the ambition to proleferate will perish soon, when your foe is gazing at your country to capture or divide it.
c)"power itself has an imperative .use it otherwise it will be used against you".
(president NIXON)

d)IBNE KHALDOON postulated the doctrine of "ASABIYAH".

which says that a nation having no ambition of territorial proleferation ,faces defeats from a nation having better asabiyah or nationalism.
so, if the spiritual dimensions are pinpointing towards such as
exaltation..then why are we reluctant to do so.

http://www.eb.tuebingen.mpg.de/depar...er/ibnkhal.pdf

please remember that;

A]the predictions by rasool ALLAH (S.A.W.A.W) are not

----astrology
----palmistry
----numerology
----or any other skeptible stuff.

SO,PLEASE TREAT THE WORDS OF MUHAMMAD(S.A.W.A.W)
AND HIS TRUE FOLLOWERS WITH A BIT RESPECT.THANKS.

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ali imraan

@ Ali Emraan Sb

I am sorry to say but you keep repeating same stuff again and again. How many times I have answered that “wars can not be fought with empty treasury and without support of masses!! And how many times I referred to Hadiths and haven’t shown any regard BTW??
Kindly cite any authentic reference to support your claim.

I never said that he wanted a secular state; I said that religion must be fortified by logic.
Again I have replied this argument in my earlier posts. A person how is hungry for food can be easily purchased to work against our country, and you called economy a secondary issue and label my post irrelevant.

Tell me what made American to give extra concessions to India to lure him for economic perks in favour of US. I think India’s war budget is not greater then that of US?? Where went your theory of fittest & who is the fittest in this case: America with large Defense Structure/Forces or India with stronger economy??

Power in our case ceases to exist. While we do not have electricity to electrify our homes and run machines, the power that is more needed is economic power then a military one.
I think our own country is victim of this theory, because horsemanship is taking masses away from the concept of Pakistan.

“Asabiyyah refers to social solidarity with an emphasis on unity, group consciousness, and social cohesion, originally in a context of "tribalism" and "clanism", but sometimes used for modern nationalism as well, resembling also communitarism.”

Why not to address this problem first in our local front??
How many times I have expressed explicitly utmost regard to hadiths, can’t you read through my post.

Why do not you understand that “Faqar Insan ko Kuffar tak la jata ha” a person who is hungry can be used to serve the interest of our enemies. If you are enthusiastic about defending or expending the territory of Pakistan, first make its people loyal to it, make them economically prosperous. Only this way you can fight your enemy.


What I can understand from the discussion on this thread is that we are “hypocrites at par” when it comes to understand Islam & Hadiths!!…

what is the logic of picking just a couple/bunch of Hadiths and references and making a policy based on these bunch of Hadiths when they (Hadiths) exists in thousand of numbers and encircle every field of our life?

Pick up Bahar-E-Shariat, the book I often peeped in to find some guidance. It has some 20 volumes!! (I have't been able to read one of them competely!) Take Tafseer-E-Naeemi, it has an entire volume for each part of Holy Quran!! The list of such works is endless. And irony is that we have been able to find just “couple of Hadiths” for our policy making process. It’s pathetic!! Its hypocrisy!! And is more a disrespect and disregard to Quran, Islam & Hadiths then that which you have been pointing in my posts!!

When you talk about “Qaroon-E-Oaala”, the people who fought for Islam till they had reached to borders of Europe, you should note that they had a "Moral Stature that had no parallel in the world at that time". They had not selected a “Bunch of Hadiths” and started Jihad. They followed the Islam in its entirety. The policy making process was entirely based on Islamic values.

This attitude created coherence in Policy Making Process. They waged Jihad, when they had curbed corruption across the Muslim Empire, when people were not/least suffering from health, education or governance/similar issues. (And for all these Social Problem you can find Hadiths in abundance, but who cares to pay heed to them, we are just more interested in Jihad-Bil-Saif!!)

This is what I have been saying in my every post!! First address the local front and change yourself. Yes we can and should take guidance from Hadiths & Quran E Majeed. Then go for some thing else. We lack the stature and strength of character that has weakened our country. The problem lies within us. With this decayed moral stature, how can we make policies in light of Hadiths, when we have a beggar bowl in our one hand and we stand at the front-door of IMF, WB, who will let us make Policies to be designed in the Light of Islam that too with a Jihadi Ideology of fighting infidels!!

You always make me write more and more by the way, peaceful co-existence (on this forum) is the policy I really appreciate!

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Thanks & Regards
Faseeh

@faseeh muhammad

what i wanted to say was that the following would be the path to renaissance or glory or whatever ...;

step 1]a new sociological contract
step 2]troubleshooting all walks of national life on grounds
of that sociological contract(a survival phase)

step 3]when survived from the current crisis,...burn
mid-night oil to enhance your ECONOMY

step4]prepare for gains as indicated by SPIRITUAL
DIMENSIONS(victories,proleferation etc)
step5]do it
step6]sustainability of exaltedness

--------bro,the GARDAAN of ECONOMY,ECONOMY AND ECONOMY is better
accomodated here,and in a better way.
--------moreover,there are many complications,concrete level errors and
technicalities which can be worked out.

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ali imraan

[YOUTUBE][/72bNZkxqxM4&feature=relatedYOUTUBE]

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ali imraan

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ali imraan

AoA

@ ali emraan ,please dont follow or idealize Mr. Syed Zaid Hamid. He is not credible.

Regards

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'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'