[QUOTE=jawadafzal]let give it a thinking how does profits form this situation well army yes or no
i am in the real estate business and my 90 % of customers belong to civil servants investing upto 4to 6 core ................. you get the idea .with out the support of these so called civil servants Musharaf never had gained power at the time of the military qua only three general of army supported him out of 10
general it always the will of these civil servants to change any government they want to[/QUOTE]

yeah u are right coz army has nothing to invest but a general (Musharaf) has a smart mind to make riposte. we are taking advantage of that master mind in every sense.

Well, I've read just few threads of the beginning regarding the pros and cons of Presedent General's regime, I won't place any comments on them, just need to enunciate my thoughts on the regarding topic of discussion.

If we look around ourselves our thristy eyes couldn't descry any leading source in opposition ground who can prove himself competent enough to tackle the so running shophisticated state of affairs. Whether it is that hair transplanted (Nawaz Sharif) or that vixen (Bibi), they both are standing in the court of corruption fully unable to declaim their crimes. As far as Molana Party is concern, well MASHA ALLAH they have proved themselves outstanding aubegine in having profitable deals with government as well as with opposition, so they are also not eligible to become a ruler nominee. Moving towards that Niazi Pathan (Imran Khan), well no doubt he's patriotic nationalist and well-awared with nation's tribulations and also willfull to eradicate these hitches but one thing which he is lacking is proper politcal training that reveals that presently there isn't any chances of his arrival in government.

So once there is no definate alternative so from which face shall we claim for Mushrraf's removal? The contemperory situation which is quite critical are entirely militaristic, thats the major reason why our Pluralist leader is still lasting, as I've already asserted in one of my thread that in the conference of 60 ALLAINCE in Vienna the minimum limit of WAR AGAINST TERRORISM is 20 years, so this thing has now ascertained that our President General is going no where because in wars Generals never be changed, as such attempt results terrible martial blunders, so how could US commit such mistake?

Now once we are breathing under stratocracy, so prefernce of military subjects on civilians is understood. Currently in near about 9 universities the so appointed vice-chancellors are retired bregadiers instead of experienced educationists,,,,,,,,,so whats harm in it? They are retired now, so they need some activity to make up themselves.

As far as democracy is concern, well as long as feudalism is flourishing we can never see the face of true democracy, perish feudalism; democracy will arrive like a fresh bride. These are fiefs, corrupt bureaucracy and that righter of wrongs (US) who are responsible of despotic arrivals and strangling nomocracy. As long as we won't endeavor to get rid of it; democracy is Miss. Who r u for us.

So once there is no such campaign, tu Musharraf Sahab phir kahan janay walay hein.

ALLAH PE AMAN

@ Maria khan

i agree that Nawaz and Bainazir are non reliable but u did not elucidated anytihng about others, e.g. Imran khan. We need to give chance to anybody else for producing true democracy and good governance. Army rule is not the future of Pak.

regards

[QUOTE=impossible]@ Maria khan

i agree that Nawaz and Bainazir are non reliable but u did not elucidated anytihng about others, e.g. Imran khan. We need to give chance to anybody else for producing true democracy and good governance. Army rule is not the future of Pak.

regards[/QUOTE]

Thats my point buddy, military despotism cannot durablize our foundations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I like soldiers in cantonments and on war grounds not in government,,,,,,,,,mager kia kerin yara, haven't u heard what that Black sleuth hound (Condi) has said? "[I]We can't think about Pakistan without Musharraf"[/I]. That temporal supereme power don't want the end of stratocracy here, plus yet we couldn't find any Liaquat Ali Khan, Chuin Lai, Mahatir Mohammad or Mehmood Ahmedi Nijad to come forward and lead the nation to wipe out despotism and establish democracy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,could u find any subject of this spirit on board,,,,,,,,,,,tell me.

As far as Imran Khan is concern, well, I gave my comments about him on the basis of his favor that he gave to Musharraf in the refrendum of April 30th, 2002,later on he started feeing regret,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why he gave him that support? Only because he was politically unawared. So thats the main reason why I assert that he's not politically well-trained.

WALLAH HO A'ALAM BIS SAWAB

ALLAH PE AMAN

@ Mazher

Musharaf alone is not responsible behind corruption and other problems. It is running in the blood of pakistanis. Well it is going on in pk since long. There is nothing new in that. Can u justify the corruption during the regimes of Benazir, Nawaz, etc ???

It seems that others are pretty busy. Would anybody like to comment over the remaining quotes by mazher? otherwise i janab hum hi kuch paish khidmat ker dain ...

Regards


Dear wat r u tryig 2 say??????????

U r saying that Musharraf alone isn't responsible 4 these scandles.
The best administrator Umer Farooque said, "agar faraat k kinaaray kutta b piaasa mar gaya to mein zimma-daar hoon"
How can a leader put lame excuses like.... Prophet (SAW) says:
"Kull-u-kum Raa-inv-wa-kull-u-kum-mas-oo-luon Ar-Ra-iyya-ti-he"

(everyone of urs is resposible what he possesses)


1) Report of Supreme court says that steel mill of Rs 150 Arabs was going 2 b sold in 23 Arab Rupees.

2) Habib Bank was sold in 200 million rupees (Union Bank is currently bought by Standard Chartered bank in Rs 500 million)

3) Pakistan has secured 144th rank in 154 countries according to report of "Transparancy international"

4) Inflation has increased 300 % than Oct, 1999

5) Prices couldn't be controlled in Holy month of Ramadan

U r saying "Musharraf is not responsible" then, Why is he sitting in power?

ur 2nd objection was "Justification of any other regime in Pakistan 2 stop or minimize corruption"

I will answer u in my next post.

I will defend democratic governments of pakistan.

Tranparancy international published a report in 2003 on .... "Govt 2 Govt Comparison in Pakistan"

Ayyub khan's period = 2.17 %

Z.A. Bhutto = 1.43 (tried 2 minimize and succeeded in)

Zia-ul-Haq = 1.56 (Again increased)

Benazir(88-90) = 8 %

Nawaz Sharif (90-93) = 3.6 %

Benazir (2nd term) = 48 %

Nawz Sharif (2nd period) = 34 %

Mushaaraf (till 2003) = 34 %

Another report is published in these days in which ....

Musharraf (2nd term) = 67 %

1) I and my country need a constitution that must b followed.
2) Army must go back 2 barracks.
3) Army is responsible 2 mis-tackling of Balochistan-issue
4) Tranparent, fair and independent elections after providing awareness 2
public must b held
5) we must hav 2 leave the conservative path of destruction...

Iqbal said:

Aray kuchh fikr kar na-daan museebat aanay wali hay
teri barbadion k mashwaray hein aasmano mein

Above % r of corruption in different periods of pakistan

[QUOTE=Mazher]

Dear wat r u tryig 2 say??????????

U r saying that Musharraf alone isn't responsible 4 these scandles.
The best administrator Umer Farooque said, "agar faraat k kinaaray kutta b piaasa mar gaya to mein zimma-daar hoon"
How can a leader put lame excuses like.... Prophet (SAW) says:
"Kull-u-kum Raa-inv-wa-kull-u-kum-mas-oo-luon Ar-Ra-iyya-ti-he"

(everyone of urs is resposible what he possesses)


1) Report of Supreme court says that steel mill of Rs 150 Arabs was going 2 b sold in 23 Arab Rupees.

2) Habib Bank was sold in 200 million rupees (Union Bank is currently bought by Standard Chartered bank in Rs 500 million)

3) Pakistan has secured 144th rank in 154 countries according to report of "Transparancy international"

4) Inflation has increased 300 % than Oct, 1999

5) Prices couldn't be controlled in Holy month of Ramadan

U r saying "Musharraf is not responsible" then, Why is he sitting in power?

[/QUOTE]

Well Musharaf alone is not responsible means that Musharaf is also responsible to an extent but there are multifarious other elements that are playing their part in the corrutption and other matters in the country.

Regards

[QUOTE=Mazher]I will defend democratic governments of pakistan.

Tranparancy international published a report in 2003 on .... "Govt 2 Govt Comparison in Pakistan"

Ayyub khan's period = 2.17 %

Z.A. Bhutto = 1.43 (tried 2 minimize and succeeded in)

Zia-ul-Haq = 1.56 (Again increased)

Benazir(88-90) = 8 %

Nawaz Sharif (90-93) = 3.6 %

Benazir (2nd term) = 48 %

Nawz Sharif (2nd period) = 34 %

Mushaaraf (till 2003) = 34 %

Another report is published in these days in which ....

Musharraf (2nd term) = 67 %

1) I and my country need a constitution that must b followed.
2) Army must go back 2 barracks.
3) Army is responsible 2 mis-tackling of Balochistan-issue
4) Tranparent, fair and independent elections after providing awareness 2
public must b held
5) we must hav 2 leave the conservative path of destruction...

Iqbal said:

Aray kuchh fikr kar na-daan museebat aanay wali hay
teri barbadion k mashwaray hein aasmano mein[/QUOTE]

In response to this thread, i can only say that Pakistan needs three things
[LIST=1][*]True democracy[*]Good governance[*]Golden principles of Islam[/LIST]
Army regime an create corruption and other sort of Poblems coz it is not the faith of Pakistan. Pakistan needs true and functional democracy.

Do we have any politician/person who would have the caliber to hold the reins of Pakistan?

Regards

yes, of course....
this nation has a lot of heroes. i personally belong 2 the Iqbalian sect of thinking n know 1 thing very very clear that.....

Zara nam ho to yeh mitti badi zarkhez hay saqi

Salam

Well, i agree with Mazhar, there are many heroes alive in our country who can make the difference.
but at the same time i will also like argue that, Our country has seen both, civilian democratic governments and military regimes, if we are cursing only military regimes it will be unfair, becuase civilian governments have not done any batter. Take any government of the past, none has proved to be the real representative of the people.
what nawaz sharif did in his second term, he just tried to concentrate all powers to his hands and become the supreme authority. Can u call it democracy? it wz sheer dictatorship, wasn't it...?

[QUOTE=Mazher]yes, of course....
this nation has a lot of heroes. i personally belong 2 the Iqbalian sect of thinking n know 1 thing very very clear that.....

Zara nam ho to yeh mitti badi zarkhez hay saqi[/QUOTE]

Agreed ! But at times they fail to perform at their best de to a lot many rationales.

Regards

[QUOTE=intellectual]Salam

Well, i agree with Mazhar, there are many heroes alive in our country who can make the difference.
but at the same time i will also like argue that, Our country has seen both, civilian democratic governments and military regimes, if we are cursing only military regimes it will be unfair, becuase civilian governments have not done any batter. Take any government of the past, none has proved to be the real representative of the people.
what nawaz sharif did in his second term, he just tried to concentrate all powers to his hands and become the supreme authority. Can u call it democracy? it wz sheer dictatorship, wasn't it...?[/QUOTE]

Yeah but at times, we also have to think over the negative points of our favourite heroes. Thereis another side ofthe picture too. Musharaf is good in a sense but he has some negative points too but he is pretty smart to cover up many of them at all.

Regards

@impossible
Totaly agreed ...!!!

:) :) :) hahahahahahaha :) :) :)

@Afrms
how u get this notion he is not a liar?pakistan's no 1 liars r in his regime and he is the leader of those liars.and how can u forget the drama of refrendum ?

well i guess we dont need Musharaf who is a man with his own mood, cares a damn abt others opinion,all in all in every decision,in my opinion the most undemocractic man,made bad condtion worst.

I Do Not Think We Need Musharaf Or Any Other Body On Chair Of The President Of Pakistan Or As Chief Of Army Staff Because He Who Is President Of Pakistan,prime Minister Or Army Chief,considers Himself The Only Sane And Sincere Of All Pakistanis Until He Is Removed From The Position And Power.whom We Should Trust?impossible..
__________________

Dear folks we all should know that stratocrates and military despostics never come by our permissions or assents. Whether we need them or not, this thing doesn't bother them, he is here and will last till this damn and putative war against terrorism is going. I've already asserted thousands of times and once again I will say that generals never change during war, he is serving USA just like Ayub, Yahya and Zia. Yet we couldn't find any fair and upright competent who is standing parallel to him, the oppositional parties are mere ass, behind the curtain they are making deals with government, simply unable to form a grand alliance, there is no strong situation or source on the basis of which we can enunciate confidently that now Musharraf should leave.

He did worst amendments in Hodood Bill, recently he had granted women their security rights, and by this he has verged Pakistani faminine force in his court, till December 31st we'll get a new year gift in the form of provincial autonomy bill through which provinces shall get authority to collect regional revenue along with enjoying some what autonomy, people will certainly get happy on this step and will give him their precious votes. The time of elections are getting closer and for this he is convassing geniously, he is dressing our infected injuries at the time when he finds that he will get infected too,,,,,,the question arises, why he didn't take these steps 7 years ago? Its all drama yara, a sly play. He is going no where whether we need him or not, yet democracy is a mere sweet mirage for us.

Allah mayray madray watan ki hifazat karay.

ALLAH PE AMANA

Saira:

Dear u have ur own opinion but i believe that there is nothing like hat u are talking abt. I am not saying that he is the best but we can call him a better one. What others have done for Pakistan. pakistan is goig in loss for long. He cant help it out but can try to ameliorate to an extent.

Elections were not unfair. I think they were transparent. he has done at his best in elections too. they were fair in my opine.

Regards

muhhammad miandad:

I agree to ur statement that we really dont need anybody on this particular chair because we are fed up with them. History shows that noone of them were reliable. All of them have exloited this chair for their own use.

But still i think that Musharraf is doing a little better that is why we need him for the sake of our very existence.

Regards

Maria khan

Off course we need a democratic govertnment because pakistan is a democratic country. But if u could tell that what the democratic governments had gave us in the past?

Regards

@ imposible
if past govts couldn't do well it doesn't mean we can jutify Gen musharaf in that perpective.y u r comparing him with others lets talk abt wat he has done for us?
and if u will stick to the pessimism of the past i dont think u can b optimistic abt future.well may b we get a good democratic leader in future.

@saira

Agreed, Comparing Musharraf with the past rulers is no wisdom. The logical and pragmatic way is to evaluate his work in his capacity. In clear words, what powers he had, what could ho do and what did he do. If all these questions come up with some positive answer, Musharraf should be the 'hero' and in other case he should be one of the decendents of the past rulers. and as we didn't need the past rulers same case should be for him.


Regards,

Well i believe that comparison is pivotal because all and sundry think that Musharraf is not doing good gor us. So what he can do if the condition is totally being poiled by the ancestors. That is why i a highlighting the role of older ones as well. They have left nothing to be ameliorated but still Musharraf is searching for places to work on.

Musharraf is soembody different from all of them. he is a life saver for us.

Regards

[B]Rise of Prices: Plz consider the prices of Telecommunication facilities. Also compare the number of computer and mobile phone users with facts and figures of 1999... Also compare the number of people who are having their own cars ... with 1999 figures.
[/B]

Prices of Telecommunication have come down as a result of competition between the Telecommunication companies and not due to musharaf. as we know there are many foreign Telecommunication companies working in pakistan so every one trying there best to take over the market that is why they are lowering there prices musharaf has got nothing to do with this. okay fine we admit that mobiles have become very popular and economical in the public. but computer are not in use of above 30% of the population and still if it is in use of most of the population but is not a necessity of life. The basic necessity of life is food. talking about food i must say the prices of all food materials are touching the sky. you are talking about the cars but you hav'nt discussed the prices of fuel. then how can u say that musharaf is responsible for the develpment and reforms in the country.
In 1999 the price of flour was 120 rs per 20 kg and now oveeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrr 270 rs per 20 kg. is the common man happy for this development.? the price of sugar was 16 rs per kg and now it is hardly found in the market. you must have seen a large que in front of the stores. what u have to say for this reform ?

[B]Corruption: Yar ander ki baat hai.... Corruption really has been controlled up to more than 90% ... at least in Federal Taxation departments.... I know as being employee of Federal Government Tax department.
[/B]

Ander ki baat ap ney ess liye ki hai key ap khud wahan hotey hain.. ;) kesi or department key barey main bataye jahan pey corruption kam ho gayi ho.or rahi taxation department ki baat tu yea kabhi nahi sudhar sahkta. ;)

anyways i dont want musharaf to rule anymore becoz i am the one who deserves the ruling seat. i dont say that but leaders of other parties say that.how can we be united in a single path.? as far as there are political parties stay in the country, we can not choose a single path towards development becoz development can only be done if a nation is united.
so if we have to develop, we must be united and always trust in ALLAH.
[B]Become a true Muslim so u can rule the Whole world rather only a country[/B]

[B]Become a true Muslim so u can rule the Whole world rather only a country[/B]

Nice job KhayaL.

@Khayal


Exquisite job. :clap :clap


and yes, the seat of president of Pakistan actually needs me after Musharraf. Since, i'm too busy in my professional duties, being C.O.A.S, so i'll recommend you for that particular seat.


Regards,

Qurat:

Thanks for sharing joke of the year with us.

Regards

@I M Possible

People did same with Allama Iqbal, when he presented the idea of separate state. People called it 'poet's dream'. but you know very well what happened after that. So i don't say anything for my post above.......!

I completely agree wid u im poss. we dont have any alternative in the ongoing social situations...the exploiting hands r not of one man... a lot of ppl r involved in aggravating our setup...to check their infuence we need not only one hand but a lot of ppl....bcoz to stop the working of force u need greater opposing force...but it is lacking among us...so rely on musharaff untill we dont find any better alternative

[B]Murga Jabh Adhi Raat ko Azaan Deney Lagey.Tu Yea Mat Samjhoo key Subha hoo gayi[/B]

KhayaL:

If u could elucidate ...

I M possible.. Kahney ka matlab yea hai key Abhi Raat Baki hai...

[quote=KhayaL][b]Murga Jabh Adhi Raat ko Azaan Deney Lagey.Tu Yea Mat Samjhoo key Subha hoo gayi[/b][/quote]


Got your point, nd agreed as well.

[B]wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


en kaalii sadiyon key sar sey jab raat kaa aanchal dhalakey gaa
jab dukh key baadal pighaley gey jab sukh kaa saagar jhalakey gaa
jab ambar jhoom key naachey gaa jab dharatii naGmey gaaye gii


wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


jis subah kii Khaatir jug jug sey ham sab mar mar ke jeetey hain
jis subah key amraat kii dhun main ham zahar key pyaaley peetey hain
en bhookii pyaasii roohon par ik din to karam faramaaye gii


wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


maanaa key abhii terey merey aramaanoon kii qeemat kuchh bhii nahin
miTTii kaa bhii hai kuchh mol magar insaanoon kii qeemat kuchh bhii nahin
insaanoon kii izzat jab jhooThey sikkoon main na tolii jaaye gii


wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


daulat key liye jab aurat kii ismat ko naa bechaa jaayegaa
chaahat ko naa kuchalaa jaayegaa, izzat ko naa bechaa jaayegaa
apanii kaaley karatuutoon par jab yea duniyaa sharmaaye gii


wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


beetain gey kabhii to din aaKhir yea bhook key aur bekaarii key
TooTain gey kabhii to but aaKhir daulat kii ajaaraadaarii key
jab ek anokhii duniyaa kii buneyad uThaaii jaaye gii


wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


majaboor burhaapaa jab soonii raahoon kii dhool na phankey gaa
maasoom larakpan jab gandii galiyoon main bhiik na maangey gaa
haq maanganey waaloon ko jis din sulii na dikhaaii jaaye gii


wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


faaqoon kii chitaaoon par jis din insaan na jalaaye jaaye gey
siiney key dahakatey dozakh main aramaan na jalaaye jaaye gey
yea narak sey bhii gandii duniyaa, jab swarg banaaii jaaye gii


wo subah kabhii to aaye gii


jis subah kii Khaatir jug jug se ham sab mar mar key jeetey hain
jis subah key amraat kii dhun main ham zahar key pyaaley peetey hain
wo subah na aaye aaj magar, wo subah kabhii to aayegii


wo subah kabhii to aayegii
[/B]

Khayal:

wo subah kabhii to aaye gii

Really nice and to the point.

Good one KhayaL

Sukriya.. or INSHAHALLAH wo subah aye gi.. :)

Khayal:

Inshallahtala .... amin.