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  #21  
Old Wednesday, April 25, 2012
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Originally Posted by talalz3 View Post
It seems you misunderstood me. I didn't say initiated. I said that it is a collective effort by a large number of people. Of course those few well organised individuals need some support to achieve what they want.
Usually a chaotic situation is followed by social chaos, then a political revolution and subsequently a social revolution (as far as my knowledge goes about the sequence ). What is confusing about Pakistan is we as Pakistanis don't have any common idea of a social revolution because we are deeply divided on ethnic, cultural, social, even religious lines. We rely highly upon state but not upon our own social and communal organization (something which is vital for the state itself) which is why we, most of the times, focus upon a centralized state and blame it for even those failures which are exclusively our national failures.

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Originally Posted by talalz3 View Post
If you think that our whole society is like our rulers then you are wrong,
Good and bad people exist everywhere but we cannot blame rulers alone for our collective failures. Pakistan has been having political revolutions since day 1 of its inception (jis tarah kaa hashar yahan pe hukumrano kaa hota aa raha hai us ki misal buhut mushkil se kaheen pe milti hogi , in ko poochta kon hai jab tak yeh bhari protocol leke sar pe aake na khare hon , yeh bhi aik tarah se revolt hee to hai ). We really do need to focus upon society, there is a dire need of a new social order in the whole society and revived socio-political and socio-economic conditions. As a society (a nation if we want to consider ourselves ) we are being exploited by a social class of people within us, so it is our own social hierarchy which needs a revolution
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Last edited by Umer; Saturday, May 19, 2012 at 06:48 AM. Reason: chain posts
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  #22  
Old Wednesday, April 25, 2012
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Good and bad people exist everywhere but we cannot blame rulers alone for our collective failures. Pakistan has been having political revolutions since day 1 of its inception (jis tarah kaa hashar yahan pe hukumrano kaa hota aa raha hai us ki misal buhut mushkil se kaheen pe milti hogi , in ko poochta kon hai jab tak yeh bhari protocol leke sar pe aake na khare hon , yeh bhi aik tarah se revolt hee to hai ). We really do need to focus upon society, there is a dire need of a new social order in the whole society and revived socio-political and socio-economic conditions. As a society (a nation if we want to consider ourselves ) we are being exploited by a social class of people within us, so it is our own social hierarchy which needs a revolution
I never said we don't need to change our society. But to term the whole society as being wrong is entirely an unjust and I biased claim I must say. We are suffering because of feudalism. No doubt about it. You cannot even think of denying this fact.
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  #23  
Old Thursday, April 26, 2012
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We are suffering because of feudalism. No doubt about it. You cannot even think of denying this fact.
By Feudalism if you mean a rich person having lots of money and living a lavish and luxurious life roaming around in brand new cars and SUVs (even flying in personal helicopter ), having large villas, rather palaces , in every major city, running a large business and have every luxury of life at his disposal then I would say you are wrong again , you shouldn't be jealous over what Allah (SWT) rewards people with in this world, that is another problem with our society . But if by Feudalism you mean a person who wants to make slave labor out of people and don't want any business competitors then you are bang on target .. It is Feudalism and Feudal like mindset which is present in each and every one of us (whether you realize it or not, I do ) and is major source suffering for all of us .
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  #24  
Old Thursday, April 26, 2012
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By Feudalism if you mean a rich person having lots of money and living a lavish and luxurious life roaming around in brand new cars and SUVs (even flying in personal helicopter ), having large villas, rather palaces , in every major city, running a large business and have every luxury of life at his disposal then I would say you are wrong again , you shouldn't be jealous over what Allah (SWT) rewards people with in this world, that is another problem with our society . But if by Feudalism you mean a person who wants to make slave labor out of people and don't want any business competitors then you are bang on target .. It is Feudalism and Feudal like mindset which is present in each and every one of us (whether you realize it or not, I do ) and is major source suffering for all of us .
You are again trying to divert from the point. By Feudalism I am referring to the way our rural class is structured. They are controlled by some feudal lords who take away their rights of freedom. There are many people who earn a lot of money the legal way and I have no jealousy against anyone. But if someone is a usurper then it is my duty to at least speak against him. Since I am merely a student who has not even graduated yet, I am powerless.
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  #25  
Old Friday, April 27, 2012
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Originally Posted by talalz3 View Post
Since I am merely a student who has not even graduated yet, I am powerless.
Its a lame excuse to call oneself powerless...
what do you call power anyway???
after graduating you will yourself turn towards getting power and hence you will adopt feudalistic thoughts.
nothing in this society can be changed until we change our attitude of deceiving ourselves.
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  #26  
Old Friday, April 27, 2012
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Its a lame excuse to call oneself powerless...
what do you call power anyway???
after graduating you will yourself turn towards getting power and hence you will adopt feudalistic thoughts.
nothing in this society can be changed until we change our attitude of deceiving ourselves.
And how do you know that? Again a pessimistic approach by a fellow member. I have seen many graduates who are working in various fields for the betterment of society. Why can't you and I? Its easy to change one's mindset.
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  #27  
Old Saturday, April 28, 2012
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revolution in our ethnically linguistically divided society, where people were seen on streets with bazooka during, karachi crisis, last year, might be devastating..............it would be a bloody revolution,millions would die...........
and revolution comes out of lower class,the deprived class.So they need to be awared of their rights,they should know how they are being used by our leaders to fight on the name of religion , language and ideologies to keep the status quo
to know all this they need to be educated if not then atleast politically awared..................literacy rate would never increase in present set up
my point is
we need evolution or a silent evolution we need a leader who reaches top through present system and then change it
he should not go along the stream like once in 70s PM fell in hands of feudals afterwards
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  #28  
Old Monday, May 14, 2012
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Originally Posted by zaman View Post
Same is the case with people that they discuss politics on railway stations, Chowks, roads, hotels, homes but when they cast vote, they bother nothing, they forget everything and vote the Same people on different basis (some on the basis of cast, some by taking their street road project, some by personal relation and least bother about Nation interest)
So evolution is slow process, it needs our right direction even slow,
good approach.. agreed.

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the only way OUT of this pathetic condition is REVOLUTION among our own self.
revolution is a better option
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  #29  
Old Monday, May 14, 2012
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revolution... or.... evolution...
our future is bright, if we follow the words of eminent ancestors. here it is... follow the link.this link is not to support something weird or spiritual...but, to open a new vista of contemplation. naimat shah wali prophecised pertaining to the fate of pakistan in the hands of an EXPEDITIONIST who with the help of PAK ARMY,MUJAHIDEEN, IRAN,CHINA, TURKEY will bring rise and change for the nation.

http://spiritual-pakistan-future.blo...by-hazrat.html
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  #30  
Old Monday, May 14, 2012
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Originally Posted by talalz3 View Post
Kind of like what happened in Turkey. A single political party slowly established itself and finally after many years won a majority. Now Turkey is a model for the Islamic world. This is a fine example of Evolution. Can this model be followed by Pakistan? Maybe it can.
This was the French Revolution, a landmark in the country's history that changed the world as we know it. France is now a major power in the world. A country where people are aware of their rights and are ready to stand up to defend these rights.
We should not forget that both Turkey and France are secular states. And this is not the case with Pakistan even though Jinnah wanted a secular state. We cant apply just desired things of good nation in our country. If we really want to see Pakistan like turkey then we have to apply its every policy. If not then we should not talk about it. If we really want see our country like turkey, we have to first make it secular state because in turkey even having 90% Muslim population it is secular.
Right direction is very important whether it's about evolution or revolution. It's agreed that we have to change even this change is slight because the same way we are not going to achieve anything good. We have to slowly change every aspect of our country. And this slow change should be in positive way.

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Well said. Thats why I think evolution would take decades. Which means millions more have to die in drone attacks or just from hunger or in war. Where are we going? Do we have to die this way?
Why we just mention drone attacks?? why we dont talk much about Taliban's attacks which directly kill Muslim girls, brothers in mosque and innocent child and their parents??? In drone attacks at least these talibans also targeted. If we had the same technology we would have been killing these taliban's and with taliban we would also be killing civilian. The same we saw in liyari operation. why we are a nation with double standard.
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