hold on tell me dertrain and hassan??? have you fogot the idiolgy of Pakistan ?
and how can you say that Kashmiries never want to part of Pak?
Desrtrain i have also hunderds Kashmiries friends and visted many times i never listend about this.
If we want to loose just due to our ecnomics and other politics issue then what we giving honour of 91000 Kashmires sacrificed for freedom?
if we let t go just due to the issue you have mentioned then Plastine also be surrnderd to Isreal bcoz som same issues also there

and Hassan if you said about getting Kashmir.then what you said about Ajk? how we get it? in 1965 when india attck on Pak we captured 4000 sqr miles area of India ok and one thing India ran to UNO for stoping not Pak.
and without freedon in Kashmr how can you say they dont want a part of kashmir?
India have just a single link that is Ladhakh sector and one kilometr border with Kashmir and Pak have whole Ajk and also being a muslims heart relations with Kashmires...

ok i accpted just leave the Kashimr and solve our disputes.
then tell me Hassan and Desrtrain?? will you give the surity for India that again he wont captured the Kashmir?
we will follow the freedom and diginty but what about india?
then you must forget about your agricultur bcoz you will also loos Sindh tass water agreement. you will also loose nothern area's of Pak.
what you about the stragic point Siachen sector????
if we hav'nt abilty to Pak then what should we do? leave all provices in free state?

Desertrain it was question for what should we do?
and one thing more Govt steped back from Kashmir at internationl fourm. this issue highlighted in Past various time and last Musharf regime India agree to solve again with Talk and confrences but in this Govt we put it behind again
we have ability to get it back. Derstrain we hav'nt done in Afghanistan ok dont promoglate wrongs idea's please.
HASSAN and Desrtrain how much do you know about historical background of Kashmir?

[QUOTE=desertrain;465713]-sabahat and Stranger-

The People of Kashmir , to whom you look on as your brothers , have been suffering for more than 60 years just because of the conflict and the unjustified hold of both parties over it.

What kind of right you people think we have on Kashmir ?
We have made their lives hell.

Its not a matter of dignity , its a matter of Precious lives. The people and their sufferrings.
The people and their lives are above everything. Even above our dignity.

I know more then 30 kashmiris ( my Mates ) and I have never heard them saying they want to be a part of Pakistan. Instead they want a seperate Kashmir.

We say we have a right on Kashmir. Have they ever called for our help ?
Unho ne kabhi Pakistani Hukumat se iltija ki hai k ao aur hamei azadi dilao ?

Hum Pakistanio se apna mulk toh sanbhala nai ja raha aur dusre mumalik mei ungliyan marne k lye tayar bethe hote hain.
Afganistan hum ne barbad kiya , kashmir hum ne tabah kia.
Thora aur bas chale toh ye dunya hi sar pe utha denge hm.[/QUO
historical back ground counts alot.jab pakistan bana tha to oun ka mokaf kya tha?ye janna boht zrori hy.or ajj agr koe kashmiri independance ke baat krta hy to os ka basic reason hamry na ahli hy.tmam bray rahnma daikh ly jammu kashmir or azad kasmir k oun ka dard kya hy or sirf es leay apny responsibilities sy mon morna k apna mulk ni sanbhala ja raha ghiarat mand qomoo ka sheawa ni hy........!

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read in order to live...........!

Blc actually the raeson behind this we are the Fourth genr of this country we hav'nt suffer any type of prision and slavness so that we can talk about
all those peoples also said that again forgot bout border line indian's and we are one as on done the media.
then we also just forget about the Base of Pakistan LA E LA HA ILALLAH
nd 2 ntions theory also.
on 47 Kashmir wants to be part of Pak but her Dogra raj played monoply with India and handed over.
i am yet waiting for my answers?

Pakistan , a state which came into its very Existence in 1947 , is beleived to have an ideology which is completely based on religion i-e Islam.
Well , to me, even that appears doubtful. The matter is highly debatable.

Bostan , you brought in the concept of Ideology in this discussion. Kindly Clue me in on how you relate it with this topic.

Kashmiris have had sacrificed much and lots of lives have already gone wasted in this Pakistani initiated fight over kashmir Valley.
Had we Not initiated this fight by sending our militants into the valley, kashmiris would be enjoying a better and a dignified life.
Remember , Kashmir had always been an independent state. Ruled by Hindu Maharaja, it was after Partition when the decision was left on to the people of kashmir to decide whom to annex their territories with.
so , our Rights on Kashmir are Unjust.

The sacrifices that 91000 Kashmiris have given were not to make Kashmir a part of Pakistan but to make it an Independent state. If you dont beleive then search out the most recent survey on Google.

No, Bostan , we dont have the ability to get the Kashmir back.
Pakistan , a country that is rolling backward day by day. A country that cannot take Karachi back from a small group of Militants.
A country that is not capable enough to give due rights to balochis.
A country that itself is on the verge of failure , is fighting for the rights of others? Ridiculous

Do we people have any common sense ?
Apna Ghar hamara jal raha hai aur dosron ko Bachane nikle hue hain.

-BL CHUGHtAI-
Kis Ghairat ki baat kar rahe ho ?
Historical Backgrounds ki baat toh kar rahe ho ap , but Ghairat Mand Qaumon ki history bhi dekh lo and try to see how dignified Nations lives and Lived.

Ghairat Mand Kaumein hamari tarah nai hotein. Sadly, we have lost all our self-esteem.
Ghairat Mand hote toh abhi ye halaat na hotay hamare.

How do you say that Pakistan is 'not gerat mand' have you forgotten our solers, our freedom fighter, our kashmiri brothers have lost their lives for the same cause?

However, Kashimir is the part of Pakistan which was given to the Pakistan, but owing to Raja who sparked the conspiracy during the inception of Pakistan. No doublt, that Pakistan has been suffering from diverse problems in the current circumstances, but it doesn't not mean that Pakistanis are not 'geraman' what you have assumed. May be it is the case with you what you have assumed but being a patriotic Pakistani we have to help kashmiris, no matter they want to further with India or Paksatin, or to be an independent state. Nevertheless, if had Indian cooperated bilaterally during the 48s the problem would have not be anymore for discussion. Besides, if we see the incidients of 65s, 71s and 99s, these are the dictators who have been making problems so on under the umbrella of the US vampires.

..ssara..
Boasting about the past glories of our ancestors is the only thing we are living with.
the toh aaba tumhare hi mager tum kya ho
hath pe hath dhare muntazir e farda ho ?

Our ancestors sacrificed , struggled , showed courage and ghairat & snatched this beautiful land from the jaws of the enemies.
But tell me what we did with this country ?
If we were 'Ghairat Mand' enough we wouldnt be giving this land up to foreign forces to use it against our own brothers.

If we were 'Ghairat Mand' enough we would have raised this country to a Point where other muslim countries would be finding refuge under this flag.

If we were ghairat mand enough Raymond wouldnt have gone alive after spitting on the dignity of this country.

If we were ghairat mand enough , Dr Aafia wouldnt be lying in American Custody.

If we were Ghairat Mand enough we would be Competing with the world's super powers.
Pakistani's are ridiculed and are treated with contempt in every country , why ?

Those who were Ghairat mand have raised their countries to peak. They have made the world to respect them.

What have we given to this land ?
Where our country stands now?

Jo ghairat mand qaum hoti hai unki taraf koi aankh utha k nai daikh sakta.
Just picking up the guns and killing people doesnt make you ghairat Mand.

We are beggars. In these 65 years we cudnt yet produced a single ghairat mand leader and yet we say we are ghairat mand ? Stop illuding yourself.
Comeout of this daydreaming. All our lives we are taught stories and I am sure we will end up listening these stories.

P.S :
Kashmir wasnt given to Pakistan. Who told you that ?
You said the mess was created by Dictators. But who those dictators were? Werent they our own Pakistanis?

i agree with desertrain, infact Kashmiri people want freedom from both Pakistan and India

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Wheat is Brilliant Gold

pakistan and india both are playing with Kashmiri's for their own benifits. in azad kashmir all the beurocrates are the puppets of Pakistan , in Jammu Kashmir also the situation is same. I belong from Kashmir so, wht should we do? i persoally think that we should stand ourself for the independent Kashmir.

How can we let go of Kashmir you say? Well, have we EVER controlled Indian held Kashmir at any point? NO. I'm not suggesting that we give up our part of Kashmir, merely that the LoC should be declared an international border (it already is, more or less).

Your figures are wrong.


And yet Pakistan has utterly failed to get even one square inch of land from the Indians even after jihad for the last 20 years.

If they could take Kashmir from us, they would have taken it by now.


Pakistanis are hard pressed to talk about freedom and dignity when Shias and other minorities are being killed left and right.


How the hell will that happen? What are you smoking man; did you even read my article. I just said that the LoC should be declared an international border. We don't control Indian held Kashmir anyway so your points are moot.