Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan what they said is not to let the people feel that they exist.....It is clearly a part of Shariah law what they have said.....

1.Dude, Shariah's main Purpose is to punish the rapist not to protect, I guess.

2. Nothing can be more productive than "Circumstantial Evidence & Forensic Reports".

3. How can one be so sure that those four Eye-witnesses are not committing perjury?

4. Jab wo 4 azeem logh wahan crime scene pe moujoud thay tou wo rok q nh rahy thay offense ko? ( This thing makes me pissed off)

Lack of Ijtehad is the reason for such gimmicks. By four witnesses it means four evidences not specifically four men. Islam does not close the doors for modernisation and progress.
This recalls to my mind a verse of Allama Iqbal:
Islam ko kiya samjhain gy ye 2 Raka'at k Imaam

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Everyone Dies But Not Everyone Lives!

Ijtehad indeed, the doors to which Muslims shut after Ibn-e-Rushd (probably the greatest scholar Muslim world has ever produced) in the 12th century, and which is probably the most intellectual concept in Islam: to interpret the religious teachings in the light of reason and the new emerging knowledge. Anyone who tries to do that, like Javed Ahmed Ghamdi, faces the wrath of fanatic mullahs and is cast out of the country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta This recalls to my mind a verse of Allama Iqbal: Islam ko kiya samjhain gy ye 2 Raka'at k Imaam

Well said!

Munwar Hassan (JI Head) once said: "if a woman cannot produce four male witnesses present at the time of her rape, she be imprisoned based on Hudood Ordinance and Shariah Law. This, he claims is in the best interest of women who are raped so if she fails to produce the witnesses she ought to refrain from filing an FIR altogether.

According to Hassan, somehow, it is in the best interest of the society for a woman to stay silent after being raped, while the perpetrator roams free."

I can’t help wonder if the leader would preach silence if a member of his family was attacked.

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When you try, you risk failure. When you don’t try, you ensure it.

our molanas follow the rigid interpretation of Islam.They do not believe in logic or anything near to it. Hence, such weird decrees about rape or other such crimes are heard. if they follow the logic or qiyas, i think the problem will solve.
In this connection, there is a Hadis about Qiyas. When Maaz bin jabal was appointed as governor of Yemen, the Holy Prophet(PBUH) questioned him to know how he would conduct himself and this is what he said," If the Quran and Sunnah do not give guidance to purpose then i shall follow my own reason."
so, the problem of the four witness can be solved if we follow the path of independent reasoning. for example, at the time of Prophet( PBUH) there was no concept of DNA as MR .FRNCIS watson was not born, so the four witness evidence was the best. now, the time has changed so are the methods.
Or take the another simple example. In Islam, the evidence of women in term of financial obligation is that of half. Means, two women's testimony is equal to that of one man. And I think it is right when we take it with the context of the Arabian Peninsula.At the time of Pre-Islamic ignorance era, the people of Arabia were backward but their women were much more backward than their males'. thus, this assertion that two women's testimony is equal to one man is right. But today things have changed. women have come out of the era of backwardness, so their testimony is now equal to that of men. however, this should not be taken that the verses of the Quran should be taken for granted. no, they should not be. but they are the part of the history and they tell us what was the fact at that time.....

Islam is not a stationary/rigid religion, it is the richest amalgamation of codes and ethics, lf any code of lslam proved as aborginalis & insufficient, it doesn't mean that lslamic teachings are expired, but there must be the lackings of sane & modest interpretation. the rule of 4 man is now needs to be modified and our austere molvis and mullah hazraat are requested that dont commit the gunah of bid'at and put off the brocade of god-fathers.

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The Vision must Be Followed By The Venture, It Is Not Enough To Stare Up The Steps, We Must Step Up The Stairs...!!

Islam is a religion of peace and harmony. Not only for muslims but all Human Kind as well. Islam give Equity, Equality and Justice to all human being, even for Animals as well. But the fate of this molvis are totally base on Hypocrasy. not all molvis are Hypocrites but those who do different amendment in Islamic laws and constitutions, according to their interest, same is the result with Rapist situation. I am feeling very shame for these molvies that they are also involve in child abuse likewise. There are lot of difference between Political molvis and Islamic molvis. Islamic molvis are not like that who eat Palestinian Dates. Islamic molvis are those who are always ready even in hardship as well. If we read history, we read that after establishing of printing press, similar molvies at that time said that, It is not permissible to printing quran by using printing machine. The first quran was printed after a century when press was establish. So I must say that one should think in the light of knowledge and logic. Stakeholders should use DNA as it will really helpful for identification of Culprits.

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Knowledge is power and Ignorance is death (Hazrat Ali a.s).

My friend very irrational argument, if i give my opinion on either of these issues than it won't be a sin as these are the branches of knowledge made by human beings, Philosophies are rejected and accredited.....BUT this provision is given by ALLAH almighty in Holy Quran, you cannot argue about that, your wisdom is nothing in front of knowledge of ALLAH almighty....so next time come with better anomaly.....
My friend did i say that Shariah's purpose is to protect the rapist? (Al iyaz BILLAH)????? I just said that thes eare the provisions of Shariah so we must not poke our nose in every discussion, as to talk about the injunctions of Holy Quran and Shariah one has to be in full possesion of required perspicacity and knowledge of Fiqh, This is the job of Fuqaha not yours...so simply it is not your cup of tea.....
Yes Sabah this is exactly what we need, we have everything given in Holy Quran and we need to do Ijtihad at this time and this must be done by the Ulama and we must refrain ourselves from talking about the issues that we are not acquainted with in terms of knowledge.....I saw many people making mockery of this injunction of four testimonies, so pitiful, this is not what Ulama said rather they just referred to an Injunction of Quran.....

@ALL:
These injunctions are the Hadood:

تلک حدود الہ لا تقربوھا

These are the limits set by ALLAH, don't go near them

میرے دوستو بھتر ھے کہ ایسے معاملات میں بحث نہ کئ جاے اور یہ ضرورئ بھئ نھیں کھیں گناہ کا

ارتکاب نہ ھو جاے

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Ever has it been that love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation.
But when love is one sided, holding off is no more an option.

Such an orthodox approach of ulemas has no place in islam.Islam is actually the most flexible and liberal religion of the world.

I think Billal Hassan is right. We should not go into lengthy debate as it is a sensitive issue. I just wish Muslims pay heed to IJTEHAD so that we come out of this fuss, created by hard-liners and ultra-modernists.

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Everyone Dies But Not Everyone Lives!