Thursday, May 16, 2024
06:50 PM (GMT +5)

Go Back   CSS Forums > General > Discussion

Discussion Discuss current affairs and issues helpful in CSS only.

Reply Share Thread: Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook     Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter     Submit Thread to Google+ Google+    
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #11  
Old Monday, August 19, 2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Islamabad
Posts: 339
Thanks: 41
Thanked 171 Times in 119 Posts
tajmeer will become famous soon enough
Default

I think Muslim world in this situation need sincere leadership which lead them to come out from such crisis. Due to lack of leadership Muslims of all over the world are divided in groups and tribes and that is a plus point for those nations which is against Muslims and Islam. As in Islam there is no liberal and other any kind of definition but here every one have his own definition of Islam no one is ready to follow the basic principles of Islam which is a key of success in today's world. The third problem is those leaders who are willing to promote Islamic ideology of a state is in a hurry and they don't even try to prepare an environment for common Muslims to be familiar with their religion willingly and with whole heart. Muslim leaders should set together and prepare an environment which is helpful for Islamic education and people come to gain this knowledge willingly not by force so they will be able to tackle such kind of situations as seen in Egypt and other Muslim countries now a days.
__________________
“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.”
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Monday, August 19, 2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Peshawar
Posts: 222
Thanks: 95
Thanked 65 Times in 49 Posts
Malik Ubaidullah is on a distinguished road
Default

Mixing religion with politics is not the issue as matfq has pointed, nither is it true that Islam has no say in politics as Bilal has said. The problem emerges when you start using religion as a political card or when someone try to buy allegiance of the people in the name of religion. Muslim's history is replete with such examples.

One cannot compel people to adhere to Shariah, liberals should be given space and everyone has to be taken on board irrespective of thier religious views. Even if Morsi was truly sincere with the cause, he should have dealt it with prudence and patience.

It is true that Brotherhood inherited a devastated country, but if media reports are to believed, he didnt try to metigate the miseries of common people instead he was busy in accumulating powers and making Brotherhood a fortress.
__________________
Hasti-e-Haq k ma'eni jo mera dil samjha
Apni hasti ko ek andaisha-e-batil samjha
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Tuesday, August 20, 2013
Bilal Hassan's Avatar
43rd CTP (PAS)
Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason: CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: CE 2014 - Merit 13
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Deputy Commissioner Hunza Nagar
Posts: 1,090
Thanks: 195
Thanked 1,551 Times in 674 Posts
Bilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matfq View Post
I think we are again making the mistake of assuming that Islam or religion is the crux of this issue. Its all politics. Politics is a game of keeping everyone happy while enjoying power. Very few know how to handle and play this delicate game. Morsi most certainly did not. I mean, he sidelined even the Salafist parties who had originally supported Morsi's movement and who could have proven to be his greatest allies in these times. Thinking completely logically, if even the fringe right parties find themselves having issues with Morsi's islamist regime, then there is most certainly something wrong. If everyone says it, they can't be all wrong right!?

The issue is not mixing politics with religion, the real issue is Morsi's approach at implementing his vision of a Islamic State. He should've played some politics. His impatience led him to his doom. People are not so readily inclined to such drastic and sudden changes that he brought in the country. He should have steadily implemented laws so that people have room to absorb all that.

If we were to emulate the same circumstances on Pakistan in a hypothetical situation that brought mubarak down and Talibans were to suddenly take over, would we be so readily to give into the laws made by them? Ofcourse not. I think we need to empathize with the people of Egypt instead of forming our own shallow judgments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin007 View Post
No doubt Morsi and Morsi's policies were pro-islamic and he was going to led the foundation of an Islamic state. . but i don't think it was the need of time. . Things does not change that fast. . it was like Deen-e-illahi during Akbar reigns. . to many people it was some how unacceptable . . . keeping in view the global changes i think Morsi should have wait for the right time. . One shouldn't be biased in any aspect. . he didn't bothered to care what liberals were demanding. . And if he have had a sense of equality then he must have thought for both the sides. .and that might have been helpful for him and his government??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Ubaidullah View Post
Mixing religion with politics is not the issue as matfq has pointed, nither is it true that Islam has no say in politics as Bilal has said. The problem emerges when you start using religion as a political card or when someone try to buy allegiance of the people in the name of religion. Muslim's history is replete with such examples.

One cannot compel people to adhere to Shariah, liberals should be given space and everyone has to be taken on board irrespective of thier religious views. Even if Morsi was truly sincere with the cause, he should have dealt it with prudence and patience.

It is true that Brotherhood inherited a devastated country, but if media reports are to believed, he didnt try to metigate the miseries of common people instead he was busy in accumulating powers and making Brotherhood a fortress.
Yes brothers I respect your opinions. Now it makes sense.
The policies Morsi was trying to implement were not at all wrong and were perfectly inline with Shariah. His motives were right and so were his actions.
BUT in his alacrity to introduce the Islamic reforms lie the seeds of his destruction, he must have gone nice and slow. He must have been perspicacious in his policies. I agree.

But one thing, he was given majority mandate and it was the right of Brotherhood to be given a chance to rule, their success was hard won and was the result of a long struggle. Is it right for the army to oust a democratically elected government just for the sake that they have proclivities for Islam? Never, this is illegal and by every means undemocratic.

But let us be pragmatic and realistic, What if Morsi had gone slow and gradually introduced the Islamic policies, would he be given a chance? Never friends, In current world order imposed by the only Superpower which has hegemonic designs for any "Muslim" government, there is no room for a state that is run by Islamic laws. Taliban were ousted for the same reason and the fate of Iraq and Libya is not different...Morsi, no matter if he had waited would have had the same fate.
__________________
Ever has it been that love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation.
But when love is one sided, holding off is no more an option.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bilal Hassan For This Useful Post:
tajmeer (Wednesday, August 21, 2013)
  #14  
Old Wednesday, August 21, 2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Antarctica
Posts: 28
Thanks: 16
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
matfq is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan View Post
Yes brothers I respect your opinions. Now it makes sense.
The policies Morsi was trying to implement were not at all wrong and were perfectly inline with Shariah. His motives were right and so were his actions.
BUT in his alacrity to introduce the Islamic reforms lie the seeds of his destruction, he must have gone nice and slow. He must have been perspicacious in his policies. I agree.

But one thing, he was given majority mandate and it was the right of Brotherhood to be given a chance to rule, their success was hard won and was the result of a long struggle. Is it right for the army to oust a democratically elected government just for the sake that they have proclivities for Islam? Never, this is illegal and by every means undemocratic.

But let us be pragmatic and realistic, What if Morsi had gone slow and gradually introduced the Islamic policies, would he be given a chance? Never friends, In current world order imposed by the only Superpower which has hegemonic designs for any "Muslim" government, there is no room for a state that is run by Islamic laws. Taliban were ousted for the same reason and the fate of Iraq and Libya is not different...Morsi, no matter if he had waited would have had the same fate.
To be completely fair, if you put the situation that way, although a little in line with conspiracy theory, it is not completely irrational. I mean, the death of the founders of OIC are the manifestation of what you have just said. "fight Islam by Islam" is a well known and good old strategy employed by the west to destroy "Muslim" governments and at the same time save their blood and money.

Besides that, we cannot disregard many other underlying factors. Since the dawn of the revolution, the Egyptian protesters were practically leaderless. To fill this void, Muslim Brotherhood entered the fray with their own vested interests to win over the public. However, I am quite certain that the desperate protesters had no idea what they were in for when supporting Muslim Brotherhood. And when the presidential elections came, they found themselves in the situation of coming out of the pan and into the fire. With either Morsi or the ex-prime minister of Mubarak Regime to vote for, the presidential election for Egyptians was tantamount to choosing between a rock and a hard place. Had there been a leader with clear vision and foresight, things could have turned out quite differently. Perhaps someone with the spirit of forming an Islamic state, but with due consideration of being moderate with implementation of Islamic policies.

Also brothers let us not be put down by the designs of the schemers. Remember what Allah (SWT) says about schemers (read the ayah in my signature). When the time is right, in sha Allah a true Muslim Government will be founded.
__________________
"The unbelievers plotted and God planned, but God is a much better planner" [Surah Al-Imran 3:54]
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Wednesday, August 21, 2013
Bilal Hassan's Avatar
43rd CTP (PAS)
Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason: CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: CE 2014 - Merit 13
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Deputy Commissioner Hunza Nagar
Posts: 1,090
Thanks: 195
Thanked 1,551 Times in 674 Posts
Bilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to beholdBilal Hassan is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matfq View Post
To be completely fair, if you put the situation that way, although a little in line with conspiracy theory, it is not completely irrational. I mean, the death of the founders of OIC are the manifestation of what you have just said. "fight Islam by Islam" is a well known and good old strategy employed by the west to destroy "Muslim" governments and at the same time save their blood and money.

Besides that, we cannot disregard many other underlying factors. Since the dawn of the revolution, the Egyptian protesters were practically leaderless. To fill this void, Muslim Brotherhood entered the fray with their own vested interests to win over the public. However, I am quite certain that the desperate protesters had no idea what they were in for when supporting Muslim Brotherhood. And when the presidential elections came, they found themselves in the situation of coming out of the pan and into the fire. With either Morsi or the ex-prime minister of Mubarak Regime to vote for, the presidential election for Egyptians was tantamount to choosing between a rock and a hard place. Had there been a leader with clear vision and foresight, things could have turned out quite differently. Perhaps someone with the spirit of forming an Islamic state, but with due consideration of being moderate with implementation of Islamic policies.

Also brothers let us not be put down by the designs of the schemers. Remember what Allah (SWT) says about schemers (read the ayah in my signature). When the time is right, in sha Allah a true Muslim Government will be founded.
It is not at all Controversy theory my friend, after the disintegration of Soviet Union, the threat to the US world order as only Superpower is only one ideology after the fall of communism and it is Islam. This is clearly said by President Richard Nixon in his book "Seize the Moment", He says that The fall of Soviet Union has not ended the cold war, rather it has started for us another war, the war with Islam, and President Bush had openly called the Iraq war as crusaders not at all it is a controversy theory my friend.....This is a fact. West and the US will never want such a n Islamic state near Israel, that's another aspect.

The Army ousted the Morsi's elected government, for the reasons that are still unknown or don't make sense until you have a Liberal mind, Is it right to throw the baby out with bathwater? The mandate was given to Brotherhood not to Morsi, the army, if they had problems with Morsi's designs then they could have asked the Brotherhood to choose any other person as President. Launching the offensive against innocent people and annihilating them who were just asking for reinstatement of their elected President is so unjust, simply unscrupulous.


True it is:

واللہ خیر الماکرین


Verily Allah is the Best Planner


But would you let things unfold as these are being, and won't do anything considering Allah is the best planner? You have to prepare for your exam even Allah has planned for you the success.....Similarly we must be on guard against the ruses and stratagems of the Infidels, though what would happen is what Allah has planned and verily Allah is the Best Planner.
__________________
Ever has it been that love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation.
But when love is one sided, holding off is no more an option.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bilal Hassan For This Useful Post:
matfq (Wednesday, August 21, 2013)
  #16  
Old Wednesday, August 21, 2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Islamabad
Posts: 339
Thanks: 41
Thanked 171 Times in 119 Posts
tajmeer will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilal Hassan View Post
Yes brothers I respect your opinions. Now it makes sense.
The policies Morsi was trying to implement were not at all wrong and were perfectly inline with Shariah. His motives were right and so were his actions.
BUT in his alacrity to introduce the Islamic reforms lie the seeds of his destruction, he must have gone nice and slow. He must have been perspicacious in his policies. I agree.

But one thing, he was given majority mandate and it was the right of Brotherhood to be given a chance to rule, their success was hard won and was the result of a long struggle. Is it right for the army to oust a democratically elected government just for the sake that they have proclivities for Islam? Never, this is illegal and by every means undemocratic.

But let us be pragmatic and realistic, What if Morsi had gone slow and gradually introduced the Islamic policies, would he be given a chance? Never friends, In current world order imposed by the only Superpower which has hegemonic designs for any "Muslim" government, there is no room for a state that is run by Islamic laws. Taliban were ousted for the same reason and the fate of Iraq and Libya is not different...Morsi, no matter if he had waited would have had the same fate.
As we see situation is going more worse in Muslim countries because of lack of leadership political and religious both. Muslims are divided in groups and this give a way other nations to destroy Muslim governments in these countries because if situation goes wrong in one Muslim country so others just watch them and they don't even bother themselves to interfere and bring the situation track. Muslims which watching their brothers going wrong but they are not coming to stop them from doing wrong and bring them to right path so they are also same as like others which is wrong. It is the primary responsibility of our political and religious leadership to put pressure on Egyptian authorities to bring peace in the state and solve problems them common interest with suggestions of common people of that country.
__________________
“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.”
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Wednesday, August 21, 2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Antarctica
Posts: 28
Thanks: 16
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
matfq is on a distinguished road
Default

Don't get me wrong I am not only aware but also a believer in these facts. The rational world may require evidence though and thus we cannot just justify our conclusions due to lack of evidence in the case of Egypt. The Egyptian situation most certainly involves more complexity than just meets the eye. But the ground reality that we can work with is the fact that a vast majority of the Egyptians were unhappy with Morsi's regime and part of it was due to Morsi's impatient governance.

The massacre that has taken place and still continue to do is strongly condemn able. However, the fault not just lies with the Egyptian military as the "military arm" of the Muslim Brotherhood is also endangering civilians by literally using them as human shield. Hiding among civilians with guns to open fire at any time is a cowardice practice that is putting civilians at risks.

My Egyptian friend, who is a very good practicing Muslim, put this situation in simple words. He simply asked if I ever saw pro-mubarak supporters carrying guns during the 2011 revolution or if I ever saw military open fire at protesters? What has changed? We can work out the the reasoning behind his statements.

Civilians are innocent of any crime, but MB may not be as innocent as you think they are brother. Yes, it is a sad reality that there are times in war when civilians are considered expendable, and as Pakistani's we have seen a fair share of that in our "American" war against terror. It is a horrible horrible truth, we know because we are also victims of somewhat similar circumstances.

There is nothing in my power to do anything about this situation but pray for the people of Egypt and educate and prepare myself for any calamity that may befall us.

"In war, truth is the first casualty" so Allah knows best.
__________________
"The unbelievers plotted and God planned, but God is a much better planner" [Surah Al-Imran 3:54]
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Wednesday, August 21, 2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: RWP
Posts: 11
Thanks: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
farhanfani is on a distinguished road
Default liberal vs muslim brotherhood

It seems that trauma of Egyptian unrest is going to be worse in near future , because release of Husni Mubarak will berserk the situation or else liberals are making way to deter the current situation which is indeed subtle and now this will be MORSi vs HUSNI match and rest of the world will enjoy the show.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Thursday, August 22, 2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: pakistan
Posts: 737
Thanks: 26
Thanked 157 Times in 121 Posts
zeekaay is on a distinguished road
Default

well i am of the view that religion and politics must not be mixed, Muslim brotherhood did the same and here are the consequences.furthermore,the tamarod movement was simply because of morsi's religious policies for example he ordered to close all commercial places by 10p.m so that people can wake up early for the morning prayer,in a city where traffic jam are observed at 2am.so if you impose such policies this will be its probable outcome, and same is the case of countries to deal through diplomacy which must not involve religion.

coming towards religion then there must be caliphate system following shariah law not a man-made constitution.

and imf reject the call for help because morsi's govt was unable to meet the preconditions.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pak affairs notes uzma khan youzaf zai Pakistan Affairs 11 Sunday, October 13, 2019 02:31 PM
Islamic Information safdarmehmood Islamiat 4 Thursday, June 28, 2018 08:09 AM
Pak Affair Notes Asif Yousufzai Pakistan Affairs 28 Tuesday, January 01, 2013 07:11 PM
250 Signs Of The End Times... Chilli Islam 0 Thursday, May 04, 2006 09:36 PM


CSS Forum on Facebook Follow CSS Forum on Twitter

Disclaimer: All messages made available as part of this discussion group (including any bulletin boards and chat rooms) and any opinions, advice, statements or other information contained in any messages posted or transmitted by any third party are the responsibility of the author of that message and not of CSSForum.com.pk (unless CSSForum.com.pk is specifically identified as the author of the message). The fact that a particular message is posted on or transmitted using this web site does not mean that CSSForum has endorsed that message in any way or verified the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message. We encourage visitors to the forum to report any objectionable message in site feedback. This forum is not monitored 24/7.

Sponsors: ArgusVision   vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.