Of course everyone has a right to propagate their views, although we don’t have this luxury in Pakistan. Mr. Fuhrer, however, went much ahead than simple propagation of views. He implemented them with force, eliminating his opponents, and invading other countries. Not much of a comparison with Dalai Lama, don't you think?

Yes, and I don’t see any liberals ‘forcing’ people not to propagate their views in Pakistan, do you?

It’s only natural, which is one of the sources of intolerance (to whatever extent) among the new liberals. But this reaction, again, hardly exists in Pakistan. It might happen in future, though.

Yes that's true, but it seems liberals don't have a clear agenda of their own and often try to use emotional appeals to just shun old beliefs and practices. Liberals are not yet a political force in Pakistan and their ideas are often hijacked by opportunistic politicians like IK . So yeah there is frustration among liberals and often react in such ways which are misunderstood by others

__________________
The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

I think all these terms I.e Liberalism,Religious,Secularism should be declared obsolete as "liberalism " is considered equivalent to "Paganism" by our religious factions. We should discover some amalgamated form or Syncretism comprising theology, Comte's positivism etc bringing something more confusing for orthodoxists (to keep them busy for 10-30 years in understanding) may be including dominant genetics theories (As one tradition also tells us that Allah likes strong Muslim more then weaker one). After all our final destination is a utopian state in this world as well as after death, so why not adopt some reconciled form of ideologies then.

Whatsoever it can be...To my humble opinion even if we apply and implement Fascism with honesty and without impurities, we will attain our utopian state...

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

exactly... we haven't applied islam with its soul and spirit in every feild of life but we still have courage to blame it for not giving us the promised results

on the note of liberal extremism , why cant it exist, i dont think its a misnomer in any way, for there are extremists in every ideology. Even if you change the name and call it abc there would be abc extremists. what would you call a person who consider himself and his views superior to others, someone who becomes insecure of anything to which word islamic is attached. At one side there are systems like socialism, capitalism, secularism, athiesm, which are introduced and experimented by men in west, on the other side is a religion proposed by a divine authority. Where all the man made systems have not fulfilled the man's need for peace when experimented, The religion of islam has proved to be perfect in every aspect whenever applied in true essence. If still someone wants to follow a failed,doomed and hollow system instead of practised and verified one. what would he be called other than extremist.

__________________
And Allah Knows, while you know not. (Al-Quran)

it has already been applied in Saudi Arabia and Iran and its comparison with democracy is not difficult: Saudi Arabia tightens things for shias and other minorities while Iran is not good at treating Sunnis well. is Swedish society not better than these republics to practice and propagate Islam and other religions equally?which is the discriminatory society? only fools would find it tough to come to a perfect conclusion.

Fool would be the one who considers saudia or iran an epitome of islam. Both the countries are involved in proxy wars, which has nothing to do with islam. Saudia is a monarchy while islam does not support a hereditary and absolute rule. The shia sunni conflict is the race for greater regional power.


it is better than the countries you named in terms of religious equality, but, as i said iran and saudi arab is no reference. I still maintain that islam is not being installed with its soul and spirit anywhere. Islam propounds religious equality, it supports brotherhood and tolerance. A true islamic society does hold barriers to certain things but that for collective good.
Minorities' security is held in high esteem in an islamic state. In the times of one of khulfa e rashideen a group of people attacked minority village, ameer of that time returned their jizyah and said do not give it to us until we defeat the culprits.


tHE Society in which a woman can walk naked without being hooted, but not covered; a society where a black child is gunned down on mere suspicion of being terrorist while playing with his toy gun; a society where you can not talk against holocaust but can abuse a prophet; a society where a bank can hold black money of 3rd world politicians without due scrutiny of such an heavy amount; a society which attacks a country on suspicion of WMD and is itself a world's largest exporter of arms, a society which invades iraq and afghanistan to introduce democracy but keeps its mouth shut when a military man tramples the democracy under his feet in egypt, the society where a bearded man is more likely to be investigated while walking down the street, the society which speak aloud about human rights but fears not while killing innocents in drones, in palestine, in guantanamo, and in syria. list is long but i'll close it here.

__________________
And Allah Knows, while you know not. (Al-Quran)

A society of which ,if I get immigration, I will not waste a second and will move with my folks instantly.

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?

Because the society in which i live or the one to which i'll move none of them is truly islamic. but, law and order situation of those countries is better than this one. Moreover the countries to which the people of third world move are the predators of global wealth, thanks to whole lot of "isms", the tools to suck the blood of poor countries. Under these circumstances why wonder if anyone moves there where his blood has bore fruits.

__________________
And Allah Knows, while you know not. (Al-Quran)

If none of the societies in the world is Islamic then where to find Islam, such thinking suggests that Muslims are waiting for a miracle performing prophet. In these days it's pretty easy for anyone to fool anyone . If you want Islam then look inside your own self how truthful you are, and even more so how truth accepting you are. I often see Muslims, particularly Pakistani Muslims, unable to even state clearly what they want for themselves and are highly afraid of listening to truth, often finding it offensive. They would often mix up so many things and expect others to find out what they want hahaha , it's not selflessness which they want to prove themselves, it's double face. I think this is the main reason why most people in Pakistan have dual personalities, one which they show while introducing and the other which gradually reveal itself .

__________________
The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

Religion to my belief, is many folds difficult to apply at state level then at individual level.
It will never come with trickle down effect, but with uphill movement I.e from masses to parliaments not vice versa.
As said by Maulana Tariq Jameel once that even if Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani becomes the head of state, and on contrary the present moral values among the masses prevail, there will be no change in system.
First comes the knowledge, then Action and lastly if action sustains for a long time, the results are seen.
Being Muslims we are supposed to know at least Quran, Sahae Sattas, Sunnah of Prophet PBUH, we will put them in practise and then finally will see the results in our individual lives which will be reflected at state level as well.
I don't think even 0.0000001 percent of Muslims know what is in Quran, Hadith etc.Means we have failed in very first step of acquisition of knowledge. But we demand results first...
We want this whole natural process in rewind form. We want to see results first and knowledge at the end.

__________________
If I am what I have and if I lose what I have, who then am I?