Well Mr. frankestein, I think you feel quite bad about the CSS and its repute in the people from higher class and from your comments you seem highly impressed from corporate/ multinationals cluture. That is ok for you to feel. But on such a prestigious forum where aspirants take inspirations from you guys (who have luckily qualified...as in your case in second or third attempt), I think such bad remarks should not be given about css loosing its charm in elites of our country. I am still confident that the guts it takes to pass these exams and the transparency and rule of merit that css holds in addition of the perks and priviliges of civil servants, still makes it the most desirable, lucrative and charming career in our country where one not only gets a promising and illustrious career but also gets an opportunity to serve the nation at a larger extent.

Also, i sincerely feel that this forum represents the unity of our nation and its motivated youth, so community based discussions or classifications (such as mohajirs, punjabis, sindhis) is not appreciable at this stage. Hope my points are well taken with positive sense and I also request seniors and other qualifiers for comments.

Well sir point taken I may be an aspirant having the IQ of an imbecile but still i managed to clear the exam on the second attempt, not third. (Correction)
I used the word disinterested, not uninterested. (My first attempt marks were 641 excluding English précis )
So many talented aspirants belonging to affluent class do pass the exam and do take pride for being CSPs
However understand the term elite
The class, which uses its social status to have firm grip on financial resources and mend the system according to whims and caprice. They do what ever in their power to maintain the status quo and if you had read the earlier posts, you definitely would had assessed that I was not the one who argued that CSS belongs to a particular strata
My point was simply that sice FPSC maintained the integrity of CSS exam, they also not as hard pressed by the ruling elite as they used to endure immense pressure in the fifties. Though, even at that time CSPs maintained their inclusion criteria and standard, i am still skeptical about how they would going to sustain the similer pressure now.what our nation character has depreciated so much (What about farah dogar case and even Dr arsalan case. didn’t the influential had their say)
CSS is definitely now, not the matter of life and death to ruling elite
I also mentioned about recent trend. In the last eight years many candidate who belong to middle class or having humble background were the toppers in this exam owing to their merit and their determination
I am totally against the ethnic and sectarian divide of our people I believe in total merit .I would definitely like to compete on open merit I had done it earlier in my life and i am eager to do it again.
We all are Pakistanis first and Pakistanis last It is heart tendering for me to see Pakistan on 139 th number on HDI rating, more than 55 percent of our population illiterate and also the dreadful heath standard of my country.
Now about how charming and lucrative the career of an honest and good fearing CSP in the eye of a mundane person is impertinent to mention
A grade 22 secretary receives a salary of not more than a thousand dollar and he is entrusted to sanction tenders worth billions of rupee
No one believes his honesty, his punctiliousness and yet our double standard of expect a civil servant to be a paragon of righteousness
CSS in terms of pecuniary affairs has nothing to offer if one believe in honest living In the recent corporate culture where every one is weight in term of capital and not for his role in the society, being an honest yet parsimonious person is considered madness

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Thanks to Allah almighty who Mould me Human

@css2008.pakistan


wih due respects i believe that u have kind ov "over-reacted" in reponse of frankestein of css`s theory ov css and elite relationship.

frpom his post it is lucidly visible that he didnt mean a bit wut u rebutted in such a bitter manner.

I agree with AmBrosiaL EloQuence. As for as my opinion is concerned I found nothing in frankestein of css's post which could be made point of criticism except one factual mistake which has nothing to do with his logic. I think there is a perceptual difference which has brought some contraductory views about frankestein of CSS's post. Comments by css2008.pakistan like: Well Mr. frankestein, I think you feel quite bad about the CSS and its repute in the people from higher class and from your comments you seem highly impressed from corporate/ multinationals cluture. That is ok for you to feel. do not suit in this case.

@afrms: very well said!

@ frankestein
Sir, Please do not take this career in only pecuniary sense. It's the honour and prestige that one gets in serving his/her nation that is unmatched and can not be bought with a hundred thousand dollars job. Getting paid less than a thousand dollars a month and awarding tenders of billions is the real test.. There are many devout and honest officers in the field, their examples are really estimable. It's sad that media does not give due coverage to the brighter side of the image. And as far as the elite class is concerned, who as you say can mend the system according to whims and caprice, this class can only be discouraged if honest and determined youth like you enter the services, with a passion for betterment of the state affairs. Just quoting exmaples of their injustice won't do the nation any good.

@ css2008.pakistan

yeah sir u r absolutely rite. but in ma humble opinion, the facts given by frankestein of css and as per quoted by u, do possess rational and factual grounds.

it is very true that css is more about prestige and service to ur country and less about monetary gains.... but as far as monetary aspect is concerned...bitter realities stand errect.....

so wid due respects i believe that frankestein ov css has solid gorunds which can not be underestimated or negated rite away.


i being a student ov MBA in LUMS.... fully know that for wut reasons i prefer goin for css rather than going for a one lac plus job in some multinational...
obviously its respect and prestige and patriotic services that i am bothered about and not money. but still i believe that those said by frankestein are harsh but "true" facts.

thanx..

Well, while i do agree with most of what youve said...quite naturally most of it being the harsh realities of the situation, i would however disagree with the punch line..as i believe there is a silver lining to it all ...
I believe a system is only as good as its composition. You put rotten meat in a good refrigerator and it will stink up the whole thing while a good 'date' would last in the baking sun.
What im trying to get at is that, although it may be, (or actually is), true that the elite have lost their interest with CSS and have found new toys to amuse themselves while they get inline for that inevitable "Grand Position", no-one is stopping the rest from getting up and challenging the status-quo. And also that if a certain segment becomes disinterested in something doesnt naturally mean that the system itself is no longer good and that is why I do not think that the prestige has gone out of the system. There has been chopping and changing no doubt, but the fact of the matter remains that even if you put good people in the middle of the Kalahari desert, they will figure our something good.
I believe it is committed, driven, innovative and upright people like yourself and scores of others present here who would actually define what the future of the system is going to be like. Rather than thinking that CSA has become a hole where good people go to die, it is up to the very people who get an opportunity to go there, to make it the proverbial "pinnacle" it was back then. After all, an institution can only polish raw diamonds not create diamonds out of coal, therefore the responsibility lies with the people who make up the system or are going to one day, although favorable conditions may act as a catalyst, no doubt.

And as for losing prestige and people having to become "private rather than public servants" (pun intended), i would again say my earlier point holds. Because the way i see it, it comes down to the choices you make. A police officer saying no to corruption, a diplomat, for once thinking that representing your country is not about receptions and gatherings, a DMG officer showing some spine once is a while and a federal secretary showing "the bird" to the mindless idiot who cant look beyond his own fat belly are all baby steps in the short run, but these baby steps in the long run will actually define how prestigious and strong all of this is. Because prestige and power them self are only words, what they do signify though is the choices they give to the individual: to stand up for what they believe in and embrace the prestige/power that was there all along, or complain that the prestige is no longer there because the choices were too hard.
Being the way it is, no one is saying it will be easy and in all honesty individual battles may be lost in the process, but collective strength cannot be taken away at the whims of a few, it can only be willingly surrendered.

First of all I am going to tell you guys about the nature of my job at sanofi aventis I was a doctor joining pharmaceutical company, while waiting for the result of css 2007 and was enduring the anguish of the long, long delay.
I was on a entry level job and the nature of the job required me to learn a little bit of marketing, the ways and means of Pharma world and than by securing an MBA from any pathetic private university, more like buying one, to be climbing the aisle of corporate world
Usually my seniors, who were also dowites, took 8 to 10 year to reach the national sales manager or some other senior management or marketing post
I was given the most prized brands of sanofi like flagyl, amryl and others and was given the responsibility of convincing the doctors on the efficacy of my product
Job was very easy, well suited to my lazy nature I was roaming around the country through flights and staying in 3 star or 4 star hotels and slaing my products to valued customars.
Presentations were mostly in lavish restaurants and I used to give presentation about the wonders my product have, by showing latest research papers.
But actually my real job profile was to collect the demand list of doctors, identifying real cash crop, in this case a doctor who has a busy practice and invite him to a health education conference, some where like Bangkok, Johannesburg or some other " fun place"
The doctor concerned, obliged by the blessing bestowed by the company would then prescribe the medicine as wildly as he could, oblivious of the fact that the patient needs it or not, in order to keep the company in good faith
Some of my products were just placebos. Though could not be marketed in EU or in USA, but provided to customers in the domestic market as panacea for their aliments
I got fed up. I witnessed so many mal practices that I began to loathe the very profession I belonged. Sycophant doctors and professors swindling through their profession in order to gain as mush carnal pleasures as they can get in their short span of life, now left to them after their investment in the field of education (However there were many, many exceptions but pharma people usually avoids cloying such characters)
I prepare for css 2008 in the last two months of my contract
Now CSS is also a matter of luck. I flunked in précis by 4 marks I first attempt. However in 2007, I was also busy trying to do many things at one interval. So I was not favored by luck as I am for now.
English précis, as we all know has no room of slackness, taught me the taste of bitter pill of failure. My father is a civil servant and it was his earnest desire for me to follow the footsteps. I am, hopefully, third generation running in this business. So I know about the pride.
Now Css is hard not only by the hard nature of the job, but also because of the very process of selection
I personally know many civil servants belong to notorious PSP and even customs, which are living by honest ways and working with sheer devotion. I know a custom collector, who a neurologist (A graduate of King Edward) earns his living by doing private practice in the evening.
WE, the common man are witnessing the collapse of social structure
Merit, justice and virtue are dearth in our society. The elite, which has imposed upon us, doesn’t need a seventeenth grade job to have its ways. They have establislished a supra normative order, enjoys their privileges in their palaces, a forbidden kingdom for the 98 percent unprivileged left over.
CSS and Army are the only left over institution of Pakistan. Both are safe for now as the stake holders of these systems do take pride being meritorious and the cream of the country and majorily because they are still strong enough to resist the incursion of power elite. There are many champions to supremacy of merit, who are the unsung heroes like Jamshaid Gulzar and the respective secretaries establishment, trying to uphold the one beceon of light, which shows that hard work do pay in Pakistan. There were guys like establishment secretary Viqar ahmed, who in the seventies provided the military junta the convenience of blaming the CSPs for the debacle of east Pakistan, but the respective post in the last years did get some pride back.

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Thanks to Allah almighty who Mould me Human

@ Owais

Bro ... i understand where you're coming from .. after all we did have these same discussions during our Psy and Medical if you remember !

I was merely pointing out my opinion with regards to the prestige part of the equation.

And as for the point you make regarding the collapse of the social structure: While i agree in essence that this is something happening in the world we live in today, but neither are we the first nor the last to witness something like this. In fact i believe this is just the way human societies have been over time immemorial, the only difference if there is any for us, is the process has been hastened by the environ that is today's society and the larger fallout from the interplay of the forces that shape the world of a 'modern man'.

Umer yaar bhai mein tu yahan post kar ke pahns gya hoon
Jo insult hui hai kai wah wah
Bhai i usually write in a peculiar manner.
I like to be bitter but if you review the post in this section , i was merely clarifying the concept that css is cleared by only those, who are parchi
I think i was more specifically answering to Rana g quote and his reference to jawed choudry column
I though I can also quote and clarify that elite doesn’t have any say in civil service selection but then a barrage of censure
Believe me i wasn’t in the mood to reply but as other came to my defense I was compelled to the charge for my self as I can easily defend my self
You definitely know where I am coming from but here my sarcasm has created the impression that i am a ardent fan of corporate business and capitalist ethics and i disparage css and its selection.

__________________
Thanks to Allah almighty who Mould me Human