As being a Muslim I found it extremely difficult to justify Quranic view about a woman's social status, and it is but a bitter reality that there are several verses in Quran that create a gender discrimination between men and women and imply an asymmetrical nature of the relationship between man and his wife.

Two of such Quranic Phrases include:

1- Women hold rights like those held over them in fairness, but men have a degree above them (surah 2: verse 228)

2- Men stand above women insofar as God has given the one more than the other and insofar as they (men) spend of their wealth; and virtuous women are devout and protective of the hidden as God protects, but those (women) whose uncooperativeness you (men) fear --- admonish them and leave them alone in bed and chastise(beat physically) them.v(surah 4: verse 34)

In addition there are verses specifying women should wear Hijab (24: 31), have half in inheritance ( 4 : 11-12 and 4: 176), and half as witness(2:228)


The trouble arises when we attempt to justify these phrases while believing that these are still valid and practical, which i fear they are not. I myself think that we should rather justify them with reference to the socio-economic conditions of women at time when these verses were revealed.

Note that attempting to justify the validity of a Quranic Verse with refrence to its expiry date is nothing new. It has already been done in case of slavary which was never abolished by Quran.

Thus,regarding polygamy, let me opine that it is now outdated, although not null and void ab initio.

I will like to summarize almost all the points discussed so far and will add my own points in it.
First Question:
Why polygyny is allowed?
Ans:
It is allowed by Allah. The simplest answer, but we like to find reason behind everything. No one is going to stay with this simple explanation but at the same time no one has seen the day of judgment but they believe in it because Allah has told us through Quran and Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H).
So, let's try to find the logical explanations that our mind likes to hear.
1. Medically women are stronger than men. Birth rate of male is greater than female. Just checked it from Google but at the age of 65 the population of women is greater than men. In addition this sex ratio is greater at birth now days because of the selective abortion. In china the largest country population wise, only one child is allowed and people like to have a male offspring. This method of abortion is now widely prevailing in almost all countries. In case of wars, majority of the people dying is male. So, the countries that have gone through war or going through it lag behind in this ratio. So, there should be some legal way to deal with this imbalance otherwise you all know what will happen.
2. If a man marries more than one woman then the father of the offspring can easily be identified but conversely it’s not true.
Question 2
Why a man has an upper hand over a woman?
Ans:
1. There is not equal right for every one in every situation. For example a non Muslim can't be the ruler of a Muslim state. Then where is the equality of all human beings in this case. So, there are conditions for everything as prescribed in Quran. If a man has upper hand in this world then a woman has upper hand in the world hereafter. My question is , why she has an upper hand in the world hereafter and why she has 2-3 times more right on children then men. Why jannah is under the feet of women and not under the feet of men. There are certain things where women have superiority over men. So, in my opinion this question is not valid and you can't achieve equality in each and every thing.
Question 3
Why woman is given half share in property in comparison of the man?
Ans:
1. A woman not only gets share in property from his parents but also gets share in the property of her husband.
2. A person who marries a woman has the obligation to look after her. So, she is not responsible for the upbringing of the children and taking care of his partner financially.
It makes sense for a greater share to male depending upon his responsibilities.

Pfffffff seriously i read it word by word .
still askin
where is the reference for "marry only one" which according to you is in quran .
plz don't put up a half verse if you did a blunder better feel sorry for that .


I am extremely sorry for that . my apologies for the yellow things.

statistically my statement is true
ask this question to at least 100 married persons ( male )
is life full of duties before or after marriage ?


I was the one and still i mean the same. comparing a human with a donkey makes no sense and to get a "better understanding" study your religion completely . you know why zakir naik is more into comparison between the two " unrelated " because he lives in their society and he has to convince the hindus that their religion is not a good 1 , but here in PAK we don't need to compare Islam with Hinduism . put the counter examples for same sort of things . Hinduism is not even an Abrahamic religion.

For Heaven's sake read the highlighted words CAREFULLY:

"And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans, then marry from among [other] women such as are lawful to you - [even] two, or three, or four: but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then [only] one - or [from among] those whom you rightfully possess. This will make it more likely that you will not deviate from the right course." (Al-Quran, 4:3)




Although its a digression in the main discussion since what Zakir Naik says is not the theme here, but I deem it necessary to answer you since you have raised it. Dr. Zakir Naik does not only preaches in India and the examples he drives are not from one religion. He talks about Christianity and preaches to them. He has so far delivered more than 1500 lectures in Europe and North America alone. Do you think Europeans and Americans would listen to what Hinduism has got to say ?

My sincere advice to you would be that you should at least search in the country of your dwelling that how many universities are offering a degree in COMPARATIVE RELIGION discipline before putting forth redundant objections.

I have made it clear above that the employment of counter examples is BY NO MEANS for the sake of comparison, but for better Understanding.



[P.S Being a Muslim, I have no doubt in the SUPERIORITY of Islam over other religions.]

__________________
Verily, His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says "Be!" - and it is! (Al-Quran)

Redmax sahab suniye kya khatay hain wahab sb

"First Question:
Why polygyny is allowed?
Ans:
It is allowed by Allah". ( you should watch the movie "khuda kay liye")

Is mooqay pay kissi shair nay kya khoob kaha hay

Ameer e sher nay jab meray ghar ko loota tha ....


(Khawateen yeah misra is tarha parhain)

Meray shohar nay jab meray ghar ko loota tha
Mera khuda bhi tamasha'eyon main shamil tha
Pukarta hi raha main ussay madad kay liye
Agarchay pass tha per bay basoon main shamil tha

Or ab suno aik kahani bari purani

Aik aurat kay liye us kay ghar say barh kay kuch nahi hota. wo baray pyar or bari mahnat say issay banati sajati hay. Phir wo apnay ghar main hum jaisay mardo ko devta ka darja day kar khud kaneez kay muqam per aa jati hay.Phir uski sari zindagi is khuda ko razi karnay main guzar jati hay ... Laikin Khuda bay niaz hay .....

Sari dunya ka feminine literature uttha kay parh lo ... aurat ki yeahi fitrat hay.

Aik aurat ki sari umer ki mehnat, mushaqqat or qurbani ko apni jinsi hawas pay qurban karnay walay polygamy kay hamaitiyo!!! Sharam karo

__________________
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.

Mr. Jazib,

I read your posts elsewhere on this forum where you seemed to make some sense. Why is it then you have suspended intellectual faculty of your mind and let emotional side drive you in commenting on this issue?

Ah! I can vividly see how ignorant a man can be. It's such a labyrinth where people see only what they are ready to see and oversee what they simply do not like. Why do you forget that its the same Islam that emancipated Women from the prevailing subjugation and atrocities of ancient men? Was it not Islam that legitimized marriages where as women before Islam were considered a mere tool for amusement which when needed is taken up and once need is fulfilled, it's dumped out. Is it not the same Islam from where you derive allusions and anecdotes to substantiate your argument for showing to the world that it bestows equal rights to men & women both?

Do you think the same Islam would do injustice to the Women whom it endowed with unprecedented rights in every walk of life?
Think Again!


Do You Really Mean it ??? Do you really understand what this employ? I presume you don't. Therefore I deem it necessary to apprise you.


Who do you think are the 'Himayiti'(Supporters/Propagators etc)?

In the First place, it was allowed in Islam (Mind it! with certain conditions and limitations) by Allah. He becomes the First in the list of 'Himayati'(in your terms) in context of Islam (Keep aside other religions for a while).

Secondly, our Holy Prophet (PBUH) followed the commandment of Allah and had more than wife. He comes next in the list of 'Himayati'.

Thirdly, the followers of Islam. Broadly, this includes all men & women who entered in the realm of Islam since day one to the forthcoming day of Judgment. You and I come in this zone. Thus, followers of Islam since its inception to the day of judgment are the next in the list of those whom you term 'Himayati'.


DO I NEED TO SIMPLIFY IT ANY FURTHER THAT TO WHOM YOU HAVE ADDRESSED IN YOUR TERM 'HIMAYATI'?


Now, if you backtrack and assert that you only meant the people of today's world, or to be more specific, the people on this forum, I think you would owe an apology to everyone over here.

You are a qualifier. Agreed. You have read Islamic History (as an optional subject) agreed. Having done this DOES NOT make you an interpreter of the religious scriptures let alone a critic. It's not a manly work that you are tampering with. And I admonish you that this would not be with impunity.

P.S I would suggest you to do bit research on the topic from both dimensions, its pros & cons. If convenient, consult some authorities on the religion or read their opinion on this moot. This should reveal to you the context, purpose, logic, philosophy, sociological circumstances, economic implications and a lot more on this issue.

__________________
Verily, His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says "Be!" - and it is! (Al-Quran)

@ redmax
Thanks for the compliment

Emotions are too much involved in this subject. Do you really expect an intellectual and not emotional response from your wife when she will come to know that you are planning for a second marriage? Alas, I can never be your wife but at present I am on her side. So, pardon me. Jab Nabi nay Ayesha kay samnay Khdija ka zikar kya tha tou wo bhi thori emotional ho gai theen. Anyways, if you read my earlier posts on polygamy issue, you may find a lot of sense in them.

Isn't this emotional too?

Popular view. But a controversial one. May be true at the time of inception of Islam but at present the gender status of a woman in Muslim countries is far more inferior than that of a western woman. To this, I can present you volumes of statistical data.

As being a Muslim I found it extremely difficult to justify Quranic view about a woman's social status, and it is but a bitter reality that there are several verses in Quran that create a gender discrimination between men and women and imply an asymmetrical nature of the relationship between man and his wife.

Two of such Quranic Phrases include:

1- Women hold rights like those held over them in fairness, but men have a degree above them (surah 2: verse 228)

2- Men stand above women insofar as God has given the one more than the other and insofar as they (men) spend of their wealth; and virtuous women are devout and protective of the hidden as God protects, but those (women) whose uncooperativeness you (men) fear --- admonish them and leave them alone in bed and chastise(beat physically) them.v(surah 4: verse 34)

In addition there are verses specifying women should wear Hijab (24: 31), have half in inheritance ( 4 : 11-12 and 4: 176), and half as witness(2:228)



Were marriages before Islam not legal? What about Abdullah and Fatima marriage. (You are getting increasingly emotional in your arguments)

I never argued to show that Islam bestows equal rights to men & women both. See above, I in fact did otherwise.

Thought. But still confused.



[B]Here comes the more serious part[/B]


NOW LET ME PRESENT MY VERSION ... I beg you your attention

Dear fellow! If is say “Slavery kay hamaitio, sharm karo” tou app ko koi aitraaz ho ga?
Nahi na.

But at the same time we know that Islam has legitimize slavery. It gave sanction to slavery and permitted its followers to enslave prisoners of war, particularly women and establish extra-marital relations with them. Quran, Hadith, and Fiqah all contain volumes of discussions over subjects like “rights of slaves”, “right of masters”, “Mukatiba between master and slave” etc. Here I refer you two Quranic verses which offer separate jurisprudence and social for free and slave.


Surah Nisa, Verse 25 "And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free, believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess, and Allah has full knowledge about your Faith, you are one from another. Wed them with the permission of their own folk (guardians, Auliya' or masters) and give them their Mahr according to what is reasonable; they (the above said captive and slave-girls) should be chaste, not adulterous, nor taking boy-friends. And after they have been taken in wedlock, if they commit illegal sexual intercourse, their punishment is half that for free (unmarried) women. This is for him among you who is afraid of being harmed in his religion or in his body; but it is better for you that you practise self-restraint, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful".

Surah Nisa, Verse 24 A"so (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise".

But this is not the whole picture. Islam indeed played a vital role in promoting the social status of slaves. But it did not straight away abolish slavery. Why? Islam had adopted a gradual process to abolish the institution of slavery because of the social conditions prevalent in Arabia at that time. An immediate order of prohibition would have created immense social and economic problems.

I hope you are getting my point. Khuda or Rasool ki bato say lagta hay kay unhain slavery pasand nahi hay

Now read carefully the God’s Words which you interpret as a permission of polygamy and for Heaven's sake read the highlighted words CAREFULLY:

"And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans, then marry from among [other] women such as are lawful to you - [even] two, or three, or four: but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then [only] one - or [from among] those whom you rightfully possess. This will make it more likely that you will not deviate from the right course." (Al-Quran, 4:3)

Do you notice a similarity, a kind of analogy between slavery and polygamy. Don’t you feel that Allah is more inclined towards monogamy? My O My, it is too obvious.

Wisdom is the authority that God delegated to us to make our own decisions.

Quran main kahan likha kay Ghulami khatum kar do. Hum nay ki na. Or Allah is pay khush bhi ho ga. Kion? Kion kay yeah Allah ki raza thi. Or jab Allah nay dabay lafzo main monogamy ki favor ki to humain us ki yeah raza bhi pori karni chaheya. Hay na?

Thus,regarding polygamy, let me opine that it is now outdated, although not null and void ab initio. THIS IS ALLAH'S WILL


So I must say please, and I say even more assertively: polygamy kay hamaitiyo!!! Sharam karo Did you get that to whom i addressed.

Redmax it is not a personal issue. I believe in your sincerity for the quest of knowledge and ask you to believe in mine. Regarding my qualification .... don't worry, agar main app ko jahil lagta hoon to " Qa'alu Salam"

I would highly appreciate your opinion over the solution i presented for the issue by making an analogy between polygamy and slavery.

__________________
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.

@jazib

i think u must be knowing how much sensitive the issue of this thread is and you have opened an even more sensitive discussion. before going into detail of what points you have raised about 'ijtihaad' i want to give you an analogy...

whenever a law has to be defined lawyers are the one to work on that and even to discuss the pros and cons... for scientific discussions scientists are the legitimate ones...for social discussions sociologists are called to get to some point. Certainly for ijtihaad specialists are required with full knowledge of Hadith, Fiqh, Quran and related fields.

mujhay nahi lagta k kio jahil iss forum ko use ker sakta ho ga. per kisi cheeze ko na jannay or thora jannay main or poori terha se jannay main faraq hota hai. nd i think u have knowledge but i am sure its not sufficient to make you eligible for proposing solutions in sensitive issues like slavery and women rights...Please with due respect i want you to think abt this...you must have listened ' neem hakeem khatra-e-jaan' and 'neem mulla khatraa-e-emaan' ...

and its too serious....aadha sach jhoot se zyada khaternaak hota hai and limited knowledge is certainly much more dangerous then ignorance...

Would you please like to tell me about your qualification to say all the things and most importantly to propose solutions....


Please dont take it personal coz i really want to knw... mere criticism is not my aim...

__________________
....."O my Lord! Open for me my chest (grant me self-confidence, contentment, and boldness); "And loose the knot (the defect) from my tongue, (i.e. remove the incorrectness from my speech)"That they understand my speech; And ease my task for me."(surah 20, ayaah 28).
Aameen....

@ Redmax

your claim that before the advent of Islam, Arab women were living miserable lives needs some research( try to read some impartial and unprejudiced writers).
Women were not living the lives of mere chattles as we have been taught throughout our lives. Many women were head of tribes and enjoyed honourable position in Arab society. Hazrat khadija was a successful merchant even before Islam. Hazrat Amina, the mother of Prophet, Hazrat Haleema, Hinda ( the wife of abu sufiyan) and many more could in no way be called women living in suppression. so whenever it comes to women right, do not try to justify the oppression and harshness of so-called Muslim men by boasting that it was Islam who gave women the right to life.

Secondly, It is not an Islamic injuction to marry more than one women. Allah just permited it and it does not mean that whatever he permits you have to practice. He permits to eat dead-animal's flesh in dire need, does it imply that you would eat it even when you do not need?

@intelligental

before Islam there might be many women enjoying rich life bt majority was not in gud condition. You must have learned how men used to do 'zihaar' and it was a common Arab custom to marry 'MANY' women and then to manipulate the rights. Islam actually put condition on that and yes you are right tht its not compulsory for a man to marry 4 its in fact an option. But its not similar to the case of eating dead meat because in normal conditions that is HARAM while polygamy isnt HARAM in any case.

and still women are deprived of their actual rights. Islam is the only religion that has created balance. Even today you analyze western societies in which women are given many rights they are deprived of their primary right (RESPECT). They knw how to use them but dont knw how to respect them. Freedom at the cost of respect...kafi mahanga soda hai...


Please try to differentiate between what Islam actually is and what we as Muslims do. A muslim can be wrong and we are....and you know it very well that how much practicing we are and how much knowledge we have about our religion. Problems arise because we interpret it in our own way not the way it is said and its natural every one of us has natural inclinations towards many things and even i have experienced it many tyms with myself that on many issues we have different opinion even among ourselves. Even our own head and heart is not fully synchronized. Many tyms we understand things but we dont want to admit it.

__________________
....."O my Lord! Open for me my chest (grant me self-confidence, contentment, and boldness); "And loose the knot (the defect) from my tongue, (i.e. remove the incorrectness from my speech)"That they understand my speech; And ease my task for me."(surah 20, ayaah 28).
Aameen....