I dont know the exact philosphy exit behind the"Tablaigi Jammat"...but particpants of these gatherings usually consider themselves perfect Muslims...some persons really feel change in their lives after attending such type of gatherings...today,most of our renowed singers have become"religious scholors"and they claimed that "Raiwand Ijtimah mein shirkat kerne ne unki zindagi badl di".....Allah knows well, how perfect Muslims they are now?but obviously,it seems a positive effect on the society...Holy Prophet said"tum m se jo koi kisi burai ko dekhe to usko apne hath se khatum kre,agr aisa na ker ske to zaban se kre,agr aisa bhi na ker ske to apne dil mein is burai ko bura jane aur ye Imaan ka kamzoor tareen darja hai"....i think religious scholors want to purge the society through their lectures...
Regards

respected member
khud ko gunahgar kena bhi gunah hy,so dun say urself sinner publicaly,
gunah to har banday sy sarzad hota hy iska mtlab sab log islamic gatherings mai jana chour den?

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kainaat

@ most wanted AND Abdullah Nayyar both

First of all, what makes you think I haven’t spoken to the concerned people? I am not exactly a wannabe who sits at home all day engaged in verbal vomit through my laptop screen. So don’t insult anyone’s intelligence by repeatedly discounting the facts they have delineated as against your whims.

@ Abdullah Nayyar
So I am being biased? Should I accuse you of the same since you’ve spent 10 whole years in that country and that you’ve been ‘brainwashed’ into conforming? Lets not try that, shall we. Furthermore, you are repudiating what the majority claims- that Saudi Arabian monarchy is Wahhabi. If Americans are what you care about I can give you that too. Mind you, I didn’t claim that the entire public there is Wahhabi too. I don’t know what cocoon you were living in for 10 years then. Moral of the story-go ahead and refute my claims in a logical manner please instead of judging my personal capacities. If you havent been through the links i have provided, do that before you accuse me again.
Lastly, Im not really addressing a bunch of malleable kids here, who can be ‘mislead’ with my post. If you disagree despite logical dialogue, feel free to sit in a tableeghi jamaat all day if you wish.
When I said that our society has deteriorated despite the prevalence of such jamaats, I was referring to the state of the people and our social character in general. Society is distinct from POLITICAL or ECONOMIC state of affairs. We as a people aren’t too flowery either with our disgusting social norms and attitudes. The first thing these jamaats should have done was to change the behaviour of people when they deal with their kith n kin. Only God knows how many around us regularly patronize these jamaats, madressahs and academies. Pakistan should have been exemplary by now, if it was a job well done. But the thing is, purity of heart and mind has never come with superficial worship, which these jamaats keep emphasizing. The cause of this can only be explained in terms of spirituality. Btw, ever wondered from where does all this crazy money come from? The funds involved have to be humongous the systematic manner in which this works. Dont suggest to me its only donations. Ever wondered why the numbers of these institutions skyrocketed post 9/11? Do some serious research on these 2 questions.

Over the past few years I have seen several very close relatives transform from normal practicing muslims to judgemental, narcissistic, holier-than-thou individuals-both men and women. They suddenly opine that the terrorist attack on a Ahmadi worship place serves them well because they aren’t muslims. We keep encountering the ‘Lal Masjid syndrome’ around us. They are those who think the Lal masjid students were ‘only trying to impose shariat’ and the government should have given in. Shariat of their choosing rather not be imposed for then shrines of saints will not only be attacked but demolished, and tomorrow my daughter wont be able to study whatever she wants to, and my son will be lashed for hanging out with his female cousin. Tableeghi jamaats have been banned in so many countries for the simple reason that they have links to the terrorist network.Even if one cant see the connection between Saudi Islam and this trend, you need to at least question what tenets do they teach you there. Tableeghi jamaats today aren’t better than the renowned scholars of 1000 years old. Read them and read them a lot, before you visit these new-age jamaats. You will be startled with the differences. If you cant decide what sect to follow just follow the basics well.

@most wanted
Where as I can provide several MORE references to prove my point, and NOT ONE of them will be from wikipedia, I assure you- can you on the other hand provide references to the contrary?
Building connections from primary n secondary data is a much more hazardous task than first hand research which is vital but insufficient. Saudis have banned tableeghi jamaats in a bid to disassociate themselves from this phenomenon which has come under extreme pressure from the US administration. It is a kind of a double game where USA outwardly condemns or at least dislikes tableeghis but deep down it also finances them indirectly through non-state and sometimes state elements as well. Your study isn’t complete if you don’t understand why USA plays such double games. It has done it all along, when it supported Saddam Hussain and then abandoned him. When it financed Osama bin laden aka Tim Osman earlier on. The US isn’t interested in maintaining the status quo- it wishes to disrupt the geo-political situation. However the ban comes only in this decade. Review its history and then come back to me.

Good and realistic analysis of the situation.

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/// Aur be ghum hain zamanay main muhabat kay siwa ///

@ aphrodite

Simply brilliant effort. This country is still a better place to live because of enlightened people like you.

cheers,
floydian

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Police Service of Pakistan (PSP)
39th Common Training Program

@hafiz ishtiaq ahmed
Waiting for your negative points of tableeghi jamat.

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It's lack of faith that makes people afraid of meeting challenges, and I believe in myself!!!!

Listen lady, I have lost my appetite for indulging in such debates for reasons stated earlier. Well I think you are suspicious of all the religious sects around so I don't take your arguments as something specifically against the Jamaat. I know you have questioned my credibility on this issue by claiming that I have been brainwashed while living in a cocoon (ironic, I wonder how that works) but I will set the record straight for the rest of the people. I spent 2 years in US after that and about 7 years in Pak (during the rule of enlightened moderation) so that might have restored my objectivity. While you might have a superior world view or higher reasoning skills but I think you got some of the basics wrong here.

-Saudis are not financing the Jamaat because they are against it in their own country.

- Financing comes from individuals who take part in their activities and is to be spent on them under their watch.

-They have no political affiliation whatsoever and they don't even mention US,Pak or any other govt or its policies in their speeches. Millions of people gather for their ijtima so if they had any political affiliation it would have been conspicous.

-Links to the terrorist organizations is totally baseless. Talibans blame them for not taking up arms with them and rather concerning themselves with reforming Muslims in everyday lives.

-Attack on Ahmadis or Laal Masjid Incident are irrelevant to the discussion. If you are talking about religious sects in general then it is a whole new discussion.

-If US is financing them, then it should have been constrained just constrained to Pak while the Jamaat is quite active in the West as well.


My point is that you can disagree with their method and debate its efficacy and all but blaming stuff on them without concrete evidence is unfair. I know its in the interest of the west to divide us along sectarian lines and breed hatred towards others. Tableeghis are a harmless lot who do not propagate any hatred towards others or pass out judgement on any other sect to be right or wrong. They only concern themselves with the basics on which most of us agree.



@floydian
I remember having a discussion with you on whether Pak should've been a secular or an Islamic state and have seen many of your other posts too. So my understanding is that its not just this specific jamaat that you see with suspicion but everything concerned with religion.

No offence to anyone and Peace out!

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Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.
-Gandhi

TABLEEGHI JAMAAT - FOREWORD

The Movement of Tableeghi Jamaat appeared on the horizon of India like a storm. Its popularity is due to its attractive slogan: "Kalima and Namaaz (Prayer)". It is also to the untiring efforts of its workers. The illiterate and uninformed Muslims, eager to repent from their sins, are being promised green gardens by the Tableeghi Jamaat. They are told that if they adopt the Jamaat’s ways there status will be raised above the status of the Muslim public. They are under the impression that through this movement they be cleansed of sins and will instantly reach Paradise, and "Hoors" (Virgins of Paradise) will receive them at the gates.

The truth has now been realised that the Wahabi Movement in India was bred and nursed by British Power. Documentary proof of this evidence is found in the book "Mukalamatus-Sadrain" in which Moulana Shabir Ahmed Osmani has revealed thati Tableeghi Jamaat was launched with the financial assistance of the British. Many workers of Tableeghi Jamaat are sincere, but their sincerity is misdirected, alas!

It is claimed that the success of Tableeghi Jamaat is the miracle of its founder! They claim to be Allah’s chosen men who are reviving Islam, and doing the very Tableegh work done by the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) and the Sahaba. But History bears testimony that no Sahabi undertook Tableegh work amongst the Muslims. After demise of the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) the Sahaba went to different parts of the globe carrying out Dawah work amongst non-Muslims who had not received the Message of Islam. But these people have introduced a new Bidat in Islam, viz. to propagate the Kalima to those people who have already received the Message Islam. They never propagate Islam to non-Muslims. We should be doing Taleem among Muslims and Tableeg among non-Muslims.

Thousands of unbelievable incidents are narrated during their I’jtima or Jors. Exaggerated miracles are attributed to the Jamaat and their Ulema. May we question this point that why is it that when these very miracles, when attributed to other saints of Islam, become Kufr, Shirk and Bidat. Yet the same miracles if "performed" by Tableeghi "Moulanas" suddenly become Islam and an undeniable fact?

After all, these are the very people (the Tableeghi Jamaat) whose lives have been spent in digging the graves of our ancestors and rejecting and refuting the miracles of Aulia Allah (Saints). But these are the very miracles, which become Polytheism and infidelity if attributed to Hazrat Ghareeb Nawaaz of Ajmer (Rahmatullah Alayhi) and Hazrat Ghausul Azam Dastagir (Rahmatullah Alayhi) of Baghdad. Yet if that very miracle is attributed to a personality of the Tableeghi Circle (possibly one of the "Hazratjis") it becomes part of Iman, even if all the Tableeghi travelling expenses are paid for by dividends from Insurance Companies and Bank interest.

Behind all the manifestations of ‘Missionary Work’ there is some magical scene of the workings of unseen powers. At the center of Basti Nizamuddin (Headquarters of the Tableeghi Jamaat) hundreds of people come and go daily, taking food, and Missionary teams are being sent out.

How are these expenses met? Who provides for them? It is said: "Allah bestows upon the Tableeghi Jamaat". Perhaps you are not aware of this that even the Government is baffled. For many times the C.I.D. had come to investigate and a certain Hazratji gave them the keys of the warehouses. They found nothing. They were surprised and returned to Hazratji, who asked them to observe once again. When they returned they were stunned to find thousands of grain bags where only a few minutes earlier nothing could be seen. This is what they claim! Surprising! If the same miracle is attributed to the tomb of Hazrat Khwaja Nizamuddin Aulia it becomes shirk in the eyes of the Tableeghis and yet it is readily accepted when it is claimed that Hazratji performed this miracle.

The actual fact is that until the Hermitage of Hazrat Khwaja Nizaamuddin Aulia does not become empty, the Basti Nizamuddin (Headquarters of Tableeghi Jamaat) can never be established!

It must be remembered that this resourceless Jamaat of the "Selected people of Allah" holds such a massive (Salaat) Conference after every third or sixth month in any Province of India that it has a congregation of 30 to 40 thousand people. (Naturally dwindling now)

For such a big conference there is neither any propaganda nor any publicity. Not a single bit of advertisement appears in any newspaper and yet hundreds of tents are fixed and there is a reasonable supply of food. They provide bus service to people coming from distant places. It seems that a temporary town is launched. The organisation of Tableeghi Jamaat may object that the Jamaat makes no arrangements for food provisions, only temporary shops are set up and the participants receive food on payments. All the record of this Jamaat is kept secret, hence there is no possibility of any written proof, but we have heard it from the tongues of the participants, that even in the days of inflation the market rate for food in the Conference was so low that a single person could fill his belly by merely spending four or five rupees. How this is done is not known. It may be through the competence of the "Economic Experts" of this Jamaat or the traditional "Miracles" of the Jamaat!

The arrangement for making ablution is also made by the Jamaat. To quote an example. A Conference held at Lucknow, in a temporary town, where about 30 thousand people could make their ablutions within 15 minutes. (Remember the 200 toilets of Stanger?) Some money must at least be spent on this extraordinary arrangement! The question that arises is how are these Royal Expenditures met? Who provides them with money? And if there are materialistic and Humanistic resources then why are they kept as complete secrets?

The Jamaat says that Allah provides all. Indeed the Benevolence and Gifts of Allah are truly believed by every Muslim, but why has the entire quota of the "Gifts of Allah" reserved for the ‘Jamaat’ only. It is, they say, the miracle of "Hazratji"! Yet to believe in the miracles of other Sufis is an act of Polytheism (Shirk).

Is it not a fact that the Anti-Islamic powers, whilst creating communal riots in many parts of India also tried to paralyse the economic conditions of Muslims? These are the very powers that are making Muslims careless of their economy by the introduction of "New Asceticism" in Islam. The real essence of this new education is to abandon this world for the sake of Allah, to make one’s time free for religion, to become careless about the family and children, to go for Penances (Chilla) with the congregation, whose result may be dangerous and this danger increases more when we see that those people who are bloodthirsty enemies of Muslims, are performing jobs in the congregation of these people. They erect the tents and serve food to the people! Why?

Unfortunately in this Jamaat the reply to such a question is nothing but a mysterious silence, and similarly this mysterious silence is maintained even in the literature of this ‘Jamaat’.

http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/a...othingtodo.htm

this is hell of a question that from where these tableeghiz receive funding from cz there is no such arrangements of collecting funds by them from general pubic nor they r a govt supported organization nd there expenses in a lot of different activities r wayyyyyyy too much...anyone with the answer?

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Puppet,Slave,Lover

Yea I also remember that discussion. And you are absolutely right in saying that I view different religious movements and so called religious political parties with utmost suspicion. But to be honest I believe TJ does not have any political aims and thats what I like about them. However, I somehow feel that there are certain germs of wahabism in their teachings. But still I am a big fan of Maulana Tariq Jameel's byanaat and had the opportunity to pray behind him once. When he was reciting Holy Quran's verses in his brilliant style, my eyes were filled with tears. On the other hand I have my own approach and so I disagree with lot of people on many things but I always listen to them and give respect to their views.

cheers,
floydian

__________________
Police Service of Pakistan (PSP)
39th Common Training Program