Why should the government raise the salaries when a csp is a civil "servant", so he or she must act like a servant and not like a master.
Sense of humor apart, the salaries of Civil Servants need to be enhanced, and the mechanism of apprehending corrupt officials strengthened.
One cannot justify low salaries for officials under the pretext that they joined the civil services purely out of patriotism. Of course there must be many of those who would have joined civil services purely out of joblessness; only few leave their jobs at other professions to join civil services while many join it because they don't have other respectable options for earning a living.
Civil services is a carreer and the poeple who belong to it have every right to dream of, and eventually live, a better life. To dream and go after a beautiful life is the basic right of every individual no matter what profession he or she belongs to. Syed Saadat will happily say goodbye to civil services if he is given another better job but see he has no other option and then he is accused of dreaming a life of financial security. When did he claimed that he joined civil services just because he was patriotic. Its the responsibility of the state to generate secure jobs in every field for the educated lot at least. There are graduates and masters in english literature working as librarians and nobody heeds them; there are guys having Bachelors degrees in commerce and they are handling stretchers in hospitals. Its not their fault rather the fault lies with the state who seems to have sworn to remain a 3rd world country for generations to come.
This patriotism with all its fervor loses its attraction when ground realities strike and that's the reason Pakistan got very few honest officials and rulers. Every man has a breaking point; one will break at the cry of his hungry baby, another will be persuaded for corruption by his already corrupt senior or even by his demanding wife. We don't have a classless society, some go corrupt to improve their class or compete with the elite. In short its very hard to resist temptations be it physical, moral or financial.
In words, all the 40,000 members of this forum will claim to be saints and their reason for joining civil services will be patriotism, but I really doubt their sincerity; nobody will select postal, railway, military lands etc as their FIRST PREFERENCE. Even those who take css for experience are found to be writing psp, dmg, fsp, customs as their first preferences. If one loves pakistan then why isn't he or she joining postal, railways, commerece and trade groups, those so called charmless groups in the name of bringing improvements to those ignored departments where patriotosm and talents are very much needed.
The real saints will be the ones who will prove it through their deeds and living. Unfortunately previous and existing bureaucracy has failed to prove it so far otherwise this country would not be what it is today (a country stricken by corruption, poverty, violence, sectarianism, target-killings, separatist tendencies such as baloch nationalism, terrorism and social evils just because csps have lost their moral strength and courage to stand against the social evils which need to be constantly combated).
If anyone disagrees then either they don't know the history and don't want to accept the present truth or they are what Mark Twain called them: Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrels.

I wonder how people scorn the word ...PATRIOTISM...now they say only saints could think in these terms. character n patriotism should not only be for civil servants...Each person from the president to the sweeper on the road must have it...it is prerequisite for any nations success...but now these words have no meaning for any body here.. ...no doubts Pakistan is fighting for its survival these days....!
Nobody can be against reforms or increase in pays-scale of civil servants.....(if i join it tomorrow...n come to know they have doubled the pay....I would thank my stars....)why would anybody object...!
NO two views about it....!
but perhaps Mr saadat was just telling us ...that corruption is rampant...n its hard to survive as an honest person...he himself says he has no expectations from the govt...this is the last thing that can be in govt's agenda these days....So ...those who aspire to enter the field should have no good hopes..cos he thinks its hard to help corruption...n that most weak,new people all giving up values for the system...or to be more appropriate being digested in the corrupt system...so those who come here should make up their mind as to how they would survive..(remember Mr saadat is still a beginner.... isn't an authority on how things go on...)
Moreover beautiful dreams...n wishes ...they have no limits to them...people must exercise some control over these things as sound human beings...they are not denied to anybody...but no unfair means should be used to have them.
I think the Question is ..."how to live in the system...without corruption..."when corruption is everywhere...No debate about reasons...or whatever govt needs to do about it...But what people ...newcomers are going to handle it...can they face it..

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let the beauty we love be what we do.......!

There should not be an ounce of doubt that every CSP officer commences his/her career with firm resolution to lead an upright life while serving his/her country. However, it must be borne in mind that if a person fails to fulfil his/her basic necessities, the priorities change altogether. Life is especially challenging for a male officer who is expected to provide for his family while maintaining a respectable social standing say atleast of a teacher. (You would concur with my opinion atleast to the extent that the life style of a civil servant should atleast match that of a BPS-17 officer from other departments like Teachers, Doctors etc.)

Marriage should be considered a basic necessity for all human irrespective of race and nationality if indulgence in any immoral activity is to be avoided. If we draw our attention to any batch of CSPs, it should be readily available that most CSPs marry within two years of the training. Thus, while still in the 17th grade, they have to provide for two people.

Having stated above, I would now turn to some of the question posed by the respectable member, Mr. Khurshid.
1) It is ironic that you demand such rigid standards for leading life for a civil servant while you make no mention of politicians. Paradoxically, the civil servants, who have to prove their mettle in the competitive examination, came to be regarded as public servant while politicians whose sole criterion is public trust still manage to evade this entitlement. All the learned members would agree with me that civil service should rightly be termed as public administration instead of public service. I concur that two wrongs dont make a right but at the same time it is only logical to begin the reforms from the most distorted end.

2) It is a common presumption only the people who have been selected by dint of their capability after passing competitive examination have been burdened with the responsibility of serving public while other departments like city government, Judiciary are completely vindicated of blame.

3) Next, I would like to scrutinize the article that you have pasted compiled Ms. Zammarah Sarmad Awan from Karachi. With all due respect, I have many friends from army (well there are so many of them around us anyway, but let’s not distract from the topic for now) and I have seen more than 90% of the times that a major (ranks equivalent to junior SP) manage to afford a car. My father belongs to PSP cadre and is about to be promoted to BPS-21 (Highest grade by virtue of seniority while BPS-22 is a political grade) and we cannot still afford a car. Anyhow, it is best not to compare the two services otherwise I would draw your attention to countless facilities that even low grade army officers get like education, hospitalization etc. I have been very closely associated with both the professions but would not like to prolong my discussion here. I vividly remember my childhood in which we had to go to tuitions on the cycle with our servant.

Furthermore, to answer your questions in short:
1) Ik waqt ki roti? I believe ik waqt ki roti tou Allah k naam par mangnay walay ko bi mil jati hogi. Anyway, it would not be pragmatic to expect that lifestyle from a CSP officer for after all he IS a competent graduate and CSS or no CSS, he would somehow manage to lead an average life.
2) I have always utilized the public hospitals and most of my friends whose father is a CSP officers continue to do so. I don’t get where do you find the basis of justifying that CSPs go to private hospitals.
3) I, along with many of my friends belonging to CSP officers families, have always studied in ‘Public’ schools. (FG Public School Quetta, Sukkur Public School etc)

And to answer your last question, let me just cite an example. Can you expect a hungry person to look after a food farm or godown honestly when you have selected him as your representative and entrust him with the discretionary powers?

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Love me or hate me, both are in my favor…If you love me, I'll always be in your heart…If you hate me, I'll always be in your mind -- Shakespeare

Well i don't mind the grades but in the real world I think Lieutenant equals ASP. Captain equals junior sp. Major equals ssp. Lt Col equals Dig. Col equals AIG. Brigadier equals IG and General (well he has no comparison) equals home secretary.

And even a captain these days can be seen roaming around in Corolla Gli with awesome sound system and shiny rims.

cheers,
floydian

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Police Service of Pakistan (PSP)
39th Common Training Program

If you look at the shoulders of both army and Police officers, you would realize what I am talking about.

I think you are looking at them right after commission exams. There can be no parallel between the two exams not to mention the basic qualification requirement. I'll tell you the equivalence:

Shoulders: a crown
Police: Jr. SP
Army: Major

Shoulders: a Pib and a crown
Police: SP
Army: Lt. Colonel

Shoulder: Two Pibs and a crown
Police: SSP
Army: Full Colonel

Shoulders: Three Pibs and a Crown
Police: DIG
Army: Brigadier General

Shoulders: A Pib and Crossed Swords
Police: Addl. IG (not AIG which is actually Assistant IG)
Army: Maj. General

Shoulders: A Pib and a Crown and Crossed Swords
Police: Inspector General of Police (BPS-22)
Army: Lt. General

BPS 22 are the final grades for any government servant, save Chief Justice and Chief Army Staff (and his equivalent Posts)

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Love me or hate me, both are in my favor…If you love me, I'll always be in your heart…If you hate me, I'll always be in your mind -- Shakespeare

We are only taking "salary" as a criteria here. Why we dont take into account the Facilities provided to the newly recruited CSPs while comparing them with Teachers and Doctors of Grade-17 ?
Can a teacher imagine that he will go to college daily in an official vehicle ? Is a Doctor provided with official residence when he is posted in a far flung Tehsil ? I have seen Doctors travelling in public transport daily, while the CSPs never go anywhere without official vehicle (even without entitlement).
We should take the holistic view of the situation and ground realities. In my view the CSPs can even survive without any salary at the start of their career as most of the necessities of life are provided free to them, while teachers and Docotors have to pay for them.

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/// Aur be ghum hain zamanay main muhabat kay siwa ///

Who made Last Island a moderator, s/he seems to have a blood pressure problem.

What's wrong with "bakwas" by the way? We all tolerate it in real life all the time, so don't act like an uneducated housewife.

@ Sociologist PU
It is but a mere conjecture that you could survive with a car and a house.

1) But to tell you the truth, the petrol for officers has been reduced from 15 liters to 9 liters a day in which you have to manage official activities too.

2) Most of the young officers manage to stay on their own.

3) No reduction in train fares, utility, medical and other items.

But thats not what I am trying to prove. If a quality of life of a certain department is compromised, does that mean k you deprive the other institution of whatsoever prestige and facilities are available to it.

Why should any department take the brunt for the corruption that is done primarily by the politicians? How many times have you seen the convoy of an IG or a chief secretary? NONE because there isnt one. When Chief Justice can take notice of low salaries of judges, whats stopping him to take notice of other departments?

The policy of divide and rule employed among various department must be put to an end; Provincial subjects fighting federal subjects, federal subjects fighting among themselves etc.

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Love me or hate me, both are in my favor…If you love me, I'll always be in your heart…If you hate me, I'll always be in your mind -- Shakespeare

High blood pressure is a common disease in Pakistanis so nothing unusual. But I think she is only doing her job to keep this forum a decent place. We must play by the rules laid down by the forum administration.

@ striver

I was expressing my opinion in a different context. But anyway you are absolutely right in your approach to shoulders wala part.

cheers,
floydian

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Police Service of Pakistan (PSP)
39th Common Training Program

Can you avoid passing such comments? She is working in her jurisdiction for the betterment of this community.

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"Tumhary nafs ki qeemat Janat hay isy Janat say kam qeemat pey na bechna."
"Jiyo to istarh ky log tum sy milny ko tarsy; maro to istrah k log tumharee mot par royain"