How other groups are irrelevant? Secretariat service is not occupying quite a good number of federal secretary ships?

Secodnly, if they are meeting rabbani, it means under 18th amendment HE has been transfered to provincial list.

So it can be reversed only by another amendment by the parliament.

AoA

Well for information of you people I am trying to put in something about the HEC and these all things base on facts and legal positions so i will request respected fellow members to read them and dont comment upon its legality because i will not be able to answer unnecessary questions due to paucity of time.

DMG cannot be blamed for all the issues, rather other civil services/provincial civil services including politicians are party to the dirty games.

The Higher Education Commission was established in September 2002 as a regulatory body of higher eduction, in lieu of the University Grants Commission with the purpose to lay down and formulate procedures, policies and guiding principles for improvement of higher education sector in the country. [for further information you people can see the HEC website www.hec.gov.pk]

As per Section 3 of its law, the controling authority of the HEC was the chief executive of the country (Prime Minister) and the Chairman HEC was to have status of a Federal Minister and its Executive Director (I am not sure for the exact section, but it was perhaps sector 5 of HEC law ). Previously the University Grants Commission (UGC) was under direct control of Federal Ministry of Education.

To streamline affairs of the HEC with other government offices, some provisios were added/modified in the Rules of Business 1973, as per Rule 18, the Executive Director HEC-being ex officio federal secretary- could send summaries directly to the Federal Cabinet after approval by the Chairman HEC having the status of Federal Minister. And as per sub-clause 22 of clause 4 of a schedule to the Rules of Business, the plannings of the HEC were to be integrated with the Federal Ministry of Education as the HEC was not given the status of an indpendent Division/Ministry of Federal Government.

As per eighteenth constitutional amendment amedment's point 101, following clauses have been inserted in Part II of Federal Legislative Lists (Schedule IV to the Constitution) [18th amedment can be found at http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/co...mendment.html]

[4. Electricity.

5. Major ports, that is to say, the declaration and delimitation of such ports, and the constitution and powers of port authorities therein.

6. All regulatory authorities established under a Federal law.

7. National planning and national economic coordination including planning and coordination of scientific and technological research.

8. Supervision and management of public debt.

9. Census.

10. Extension of the powers and jurisdiction of members of a police force belonging to any Province to any area in another Province, but not so as to enable the police of one Province to exercise powers and jurisdiction in another Province without the consent of the Government of that Province; extension of the powers and jurisdiction of a police force belonging to any Pronvice to railway areas outside that Province.

11. Legal, medical and other professions.

12. Standards in institutions for higher education and research, scientific and technical institutions.

13. Inter-provincial matters and co-ordination.]

Its evident from above that the HEC has been inserted to be a federal entity.

The HEC officers alongwith some Vice Chancellors of universities/degree awarding institutions met with Senator Raza Rabbani, Chairman Implementation Commission yesterday March 26, 2011. Probably the Implementation Commission is in mood to devolve the HEC. [18th Amendment: The last stand for Higher Education Commission – The Express Tribune refers]

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'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

if the HEC has been given in federal list, any attempt to devolve it to provinces will be ultra vies, void ab initio. And will be turned down instantly by the courts for sure.

Yes it should be, the HEC has done great since its inception for betterment of higher education in the country. Though nobody is perfect and some flaws lies at the level of HEC as well, yet the plus points at HEC are much more thn its negative points. ...

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'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;282786]AoA



DMG cannot be blamed for all the issues, rather other civil services/provincial civil services including politicians are party to the dirty games.
QUOTE]

Dear friend, Since formation of HEC, our burocracy is agaist it. To settle these issues, HEC chairman Dr atta ur rehman requested President Musharraf to give HEC a federal status by removing it from Ministro of education, because when Dr atta started HEC revolution in 2002, he faced strong hurdles from burocracy (DMG specially). But since 2002-2008, army regime, HEC worked very well because in army Govt, our burocracy has less powers. As army regime ended, our Burocrats again started demolarising HEC either by cutting its funds or by hurdling other HEC issues. Even they managed to resign Dr atta. So we should be strongly convinced that our DMG group is digging the grave our higher education for their authority and to keep education fiunds in their pockets. I am not baised but it is reality, we had to accept it.


yes absolutely right. HEC is an excellent department. If it was not destroyed by DMG, we shall see HEC s service to this nation in some next few years.

[QUOTE=french;282836]


For your kind information sir, when HEC was formed in the initial years many OMG officers were federal secretary education who were eyeing hec. Like Mr Sajid hassan OMG. former federal secretary education during Atta ur rehman era

Blaming the bureaucracy as a whole, let alone DMG is madness in this regard. The bureaucracy is completely under govt. control. The matter of HEC is being considered by our worthy public representatives, and it is up to them to decide what shall be the fate of HEC. Yes, HEC has shown remarkable performance, and it has also been the sole reason that today we have internationally recognized degrees, but the bureaucracy is only working on the policies of the ruling govt. Mr. French is highly biased against one group. Only some individuals in the Civil Bureaucracy are corrupt and they do not represent any specific group. You can find many such Generals in Pakistan Army but that doesn't make the whole army corrupt.
Please keep your discussion free of bias and think rationally.
Blaming DMG for every problem of Pakistan is insanity. Are DMGs imported from India?
No. If they're still evil, the problem is not with CSA, DMG or CSS.
The problem lies with this nations mothers who've taken up the task of giving birth to only traitors. The society as a whole is just as corrupt.

Sir, what you are telling? please keep in mind, our politicians are guided by the officers. In particular the principal secretary of PM is the key guider of PM, more than any one else. Like Musharraf guider was Tariq Aziz. To bring HEC under ministry control is of whom benefit? the education secretary. and the CSP's are power hungry. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. In a province of this country, the summaries to CM are not even shown to the CM, the Secretary to CM makes all decisions. In islamabad, whatever Khushnood Akhtar Lashari, will guide the PM, the PM will adhere to his advice because the PM's normally consider the Secretary Establishment and Principal Secretary opinion as the most reliable in service matters. As far as ministers etc. The federal secretaries least care of them, until the minister is v powerful.

Saying it is easy; if you have the oppurtunity of visiting CM Secretariat and PM Secretariat, your views will be exactly, that Bureaucracy has done immense damage to the system.

A big example, a current minister had announced to resign(perhaps israr ullah zahri) on the reason that he several times wanted to meet PM, but the principal secretary (mrs nargis sethi, a DMG officer of 7th common) didn't let him meet PM/gave appointment.

SECONDLY, although Mr. French, is wrong about HEC that its DMG responsible. but he would have been right if he would have qouted Railways example. Chairman's of railways like Sami Ul Haq Khilji, Kashif etc are Famous DMG's and have made millions out of their era in Railways

Dear our Ministers are Governed by Burocracy. No doubt in it. For example, one officer of FIA has arrested Moanas illahi, so one officer put all PML Q in his pocket.
So it is Burocracy who controls our country. Now it is not Govt Policy It is burocracy pressure on Govt to kick and hit higher education.
Janab matter is just money, Burocrats needs HEC money, that s why they are aainst HEC.


Bhai jaan, Muje nahin pata ke kia sirf DMG is destroying Pakistan or OMG or What ever, But briefly speaking, Bureaucracy will destroy this country by rolling back education either DMG or OMG or what ever bureaucrat there is

Yes you are right. By the way Kashif is at moment Member FPSC.