We have to admit that we are poor country ,we cannot afford another province.
Pehlay jo hain wo sahi tarah sambhalay nahi jatay....

I think it is in one of those tools which now a days using by different Polittions to cover it's position in coming elections.
no one is ready to talk about the energy crises, unemployment,education related problems etc,they all are in Unity and doing such jobs to divert the Nation from these above mention problems...

The nation doesn't only consist of an area adjacent to lahore,Fslbd and Rawalpindi..We have to consider that there is a south Punjab as well..this is their constitutional right,and we are all nobodies to tell them its not good for them..They have every right to demand this..The public there genuinely wants it..atleast 70% do..and I know it is a costly process..Thats y I say that it should be a gradual process...But u cant disagree with its inevitability..it has to be done..If B.B can be given rights of a separate Federating unit and costs incurred for it,why not for south punjab...
Power to the people!

__________________
I shall either find a way,or make one
'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa'

Yes indeed it is inevitable now.
Nawishta Dewar parha ja skta hay South Punjab ka province ban'na.
All political forces are unanimous on this point except N league.
Even league's stalwarts like hasmi and khosas are not oblivious of the importance of south punjab's becoming a province.
South Punjab is destined to attain the status of Separate province.
I dont belong to south Punjab .Rather i belong to central Punjab , but I feel that South Punjab should be made a separate province

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Thanks Allah

AOA,
@hamza i have gone through your post.But failed to find right logic here.infact it does not make out any sense..plz see my arguments and if i am wrong correct me qk galti to har insan me he..

1.me phly division ke topic par baat krny ce pehly ek chez clear kr dun,mry opinion orthodox school waly nae.etc u said kashmir .. Mry nazdik to ye behtar he bus unko azadi mil jae beshuk india ke sath ho ya ek elieda federation ho. Agr vo separate state bnty to humary china and india ke relations behtar hoskty and hum 3 mil kr counter kr skty hain terrorism ko and Na he Mujy RAW par andha blv he ke tmam fasad usky wja c me tb yakin krty ho jub mujy koe fact miley me ne"FAS" Ke site ka refrnc dya jo ke U.S ke site he.anyhow mujy Raw c kya lena dena,mry relativz ko mara nae he jo me dushman bnu.

2.u site here 3 references.
1.russia
2. India
3.china ka koe hawala nae.hona chahey tha.

russia pvs USSR atheist state the and bulshvk revlution ne muslim state ko mila dya.Russia single he area me tmam dnya ke ten largest me ata he.how can u deny the fact of foreign intervention in it and jub ye Russia separate hwa to inam me permanent seat be mily na usko UNSC se.. Rae baat india ke to apne Dawm me he para hoga india dnya ke num,1 communal riots waly state..apne 2 provinces ka kha
1.jharkand
2.chattisgarh
3.tesara mry tarf utterkand.
Ye apne unky bnany ke wja proper search nae k,
1.linguistic
2.communal
3.GDP GROWTH.

Bae 2000ke bad ye taqsim hwe tb india ke GDP record growth pe th jo indri ghandi aur bad me manmohnsing ke waja ce sharp rise ke.and ye provinces north eastern belt to southern belt jaty hain as jharkan part of bihar, chattisgarh part of Malwa and gawaliar and 3rd utterperdaish jo nepal ce milta he.ya ke awam apny culture tahfuz ke lye tehrekken chala rae th so agr ap india ko pak ke sath milaen to ye ziyadte qk pak is muslim country.india has 50percent populatn hindu.India ke managment to me ne para betar nae hwa but swiss banking behtar hogae? Ya pe india ke misal bre he ajeib aur na mozoon ce he.

2.if u want to divide it then why not sind and baluchistan.kahajata he pak ka size 2 california ke brabar and baluchistan ka ek california ke. Ab resources to idar bht zaida hen.phly isko divide krty hen and packages introduce karaty hen jo migration pull create karein and Idps ka pblm be solve hojae .but have u GDP??? India ke Gdp to bht achy he.

3.phr karachi,hydrebad and sukkur ko be divide hona chahey qk sirf voe to develop hain and sind rural ko separate province bnana chahey for better administration.

4.hazara ko division to shiia ideology par he but Apke pas income he.

5.Ap eleida province ke assembly and ministerz par paisy kharch karein yani half budget ministers and bureaucracy ko jae ga half corruption ke nazar to deprivation remain universal.

6.pakistan ek muslim ke hindu ce nijat th jo har sacrifice pe tyar th so hamary leadrz ne administrative record and treasury,ordance and industrial factories ko sacrifice kya .aaj ap samjty hen pakistan nakam he to lapse is due to leadrshp.hamary quaid and liaqat shaheed to wafat pa gae but india ko daikhey nehru famly chalaty rae and ghandi.so ye blkul wrng he ap pakistan ke creation ko sarikistan ce milaey.

5.apne ayesha siddique ka column to punjabi taliban ke hawaly ce pary ho ge.janab ye terrorist ka garh he.and u better know abt that.so its mean mianwali to sukkur ek bufar province bnaya jae jo lutification ka kam kary Q league and mQM KE ZARIEY

6.khoso ke baat log krty hen khoso pPp ka he and ppp ke bat kahey naa.agr
division karny he,

to awam ce aur tax leny k lye nae province ko kaha jae ga hkomat nuqsan me he tax do.mazied gurbat

__________________
"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

Well if U cant find any logic in a very clear and simple post tw what can I do??I think U fail to understand that me ne Pakistan banne ki example islye di he coz it was the matter of life and death for the muslims of northern India..n south Punjab ka province banna is the matter of life and death for the saraikis...
South Punjab terrorists ka garh he..But kya yahan koi terrorist,insurgent,Liberation ya koi esi movement chal rahy he?NAHY..
Before writing the point k elehda province ki assembly,ministers and officers pe pese kharch honge u shud have thot again..Jb elehda province bn jayega,Tw punjab assembly ki seats kum hojayengi.Un k kharchey bhi kum hojayenge.Wo kharche South Punjab pe honge.Civil servants utney hi rhe ge.Punjab ki 50% quota kum ho k 30% hojayega n baki 20% south Punjab ko mil jayga.Tw kharcha mazid kahan se agaya?/
N frankly,mujhe apk arguments ki samjh nahy arahi.Weak and inconclusive.I not only fail to derive any logic from them,but I can't even reach a conclusion..That what ARE u trying to prove..arguments ek jagah likh daine se ek accha piece of debate nahy banta..U have to logically conclude and present them..Ek bat klahin ho rhi he or dusri kahin ho rhi hey..achanak urti hui ek or bat arahi he..Ub ye india ki administration k saath swiss banking kahan se agayi??Pakistan is a muslim country tw us se administration pe kya farak par gaya janab??Y cant we compare it to India,..whats wrong in it??
Or jahan tk ap ne bat ki k provinces bnane he tw sindh k bnaye baluchistan k bnaye..That is totally hilarious..I mean province Population ki basis pe administer hotay he..population dekhe baluchistan k or punjab ki..Punjab needs division.Baluchistan and Sindh dont.Totally,utterly senseless.I am sure no other member would accede to this point coz it has no basis.
Or please I don't buy ur theories of 'Foreign intervention' and 'gehri sazish' on everything..I don't believe in them.They are simple plain phobic.Pata nahy ap links kahan se jorti he in cheezon me,but I can only advise u dat please stop doing it.Ap k appney exams k lye ye cheez acchi nahy he.Examiner won't buy conspiracy theories.
In the end,U have failed to reply to my point that South Punjab's population has the right to decide for themselves.U have been evading this point.I have said it once before,I say it once again.WHO are u,and WHO am I,to decide for the people of this area???Answer this to me..Who gave u this right to decide for them????????????????

__________________
I shall either find a way,or make one
'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa'

if sarikistan province is made then why not potohar province????this is mere ignorance if we say division has no linguistic grounds or this issue is not a political ball which is raised for political gains.since it has started from masses then people are demanding separate province for their own cultural identity .For the case of better administration we need our GDP ratio better.we should minimize our B0P deficit for better administration.If we are unable to address these issues then our voice for better administration stands in nothingness.if it is divided on linguistic bases then masses have to suffer because poor administration will lead toward further loans,deficits and terrorism.surely none of us wanted to do so..

you give me example of india ,i wonder about your faulty knowledge.I have read about the history of communal riots and division.none of the state was divided for better administration.have you any source of your information??????? you give me example of jharkand--means the land of forests.it was carved out from southern part of bihar on 15 November 2000. you know GDP of india developed by Indira ghandi policies .they can manage new province --even they could not manage it how Pakistan can??the jharkand movement has historical origins.the liberation movement was started as a violent movement against britsih imperialism.they claimed for their separate cultural identity.tilka majhi was the main leader who started this movement and claim for the ownership of farmlands.so these revolts started against from 17 th century to 19th century but english people resisted better to manage this rebellion.the demand for separate province turned into moderated movement on the behalf of landless owners in late 20s.during ghandi era this movement is named as Tana movement and joined ghand sattyagarh movement.when simon commission came to india it rejected the demand for separate province.so after 1947 the indian government denied the demand for separate province and rejected it on linguistic grounds.later years this all india jhaekand party gained political influence over masses.so 1952,57,elections witnessed a record of 32 seats in bihar assembly for its party .so separate province demand gained influence bt later years it loose its political position so got 23 ,8 6 seats in next coming elections respectively. All india jharkand party now took help of splinter groups and RAM DIYAL MUNDA who unified all splinter groups from tribal belt.so splinter groups made this movement a national movement.so BJP govenment acceded to the demands of splinter groups but CM of bihar, lalu parshad yadev could not admit this autonomy and opposed the agreement.finally LOCk SABAH party ready to made this province .now Jharkand is one of the 13 states of india which have rebel leaders and performing terrorist activities even after the separation. major rebel leaders belonged to naxalites and Maoist .these are fighting for the rights of people.infact this new province flamed further deprivation. you have to see AND Study Arudhati roy who is social activist.best seller award winner for his literary works.tou have also studied in dawn too about her voice which she raised for kashmiris and Maosit.infact our paki people needs writer like that --free from all prejudice. same is the case with karanata people or kannada language prople who have given province as their legitimate demand.but this could not reduce insurgency---i have detail knowledge for that province too but futile to discuss more as all of us knew it has linguistic bases.karanat language is one of the world 25 spoken language in the world.same is with chattisgarh province that was carved out to diminish the Maoist insurgency but results come out to be zero.mean no improvement.why arudhati roy is raising her voice agr division ke baad be unky deprivation door nae hve

agr division ce pblmz solve hoty to pakistan ke tmam deprived states ko divide kar dena chahey and inkey be anjam ka intizar karna chahey jasiy india ke new province-ka kya hal hva he waisy he pakistan ka hona chaey.india apny domestic policy ke waja ce bacha hve warna ye kae new countries me divide hojata.
personal opinion ke azady hooty he discussion me and thank u for ur advice --paper me aap ne personal opinion nae likhney hooty...amy how me 10 tymz keh chuky i have nothing to do this .leave tihi point

offcourse ,unky pas haq he and mery pass ye haq he to me be bol re ho na..and agr linguistic base pe aap keh are hen to me nae samjty ye unka haq he
taqsim ka haq na to aap ke pass he na he mery pass.thread to discussion and opinion building ke liye start ke he...ya pe ye question be maani sa he..age aisa nae to plz apna mafhoom explain karen

1.when we talk abt new province as i say if it is ,then for better administration. Replyng to ur point 1,multan ke 4 ministr,lahore ke 17 ministr ,rawalpindi ke b 15 tk to new province ke lye 4 ya giney chuney province to nae chaey hoge. Multan ko metropole bnaya jae ga,new ministr,new election hoge, judicial courts new hoge mean province ke high court,metropole ko tmam provices ce connect krna pary ga and bht c baten and janb humary pas paisy nae hum qarzo me phansy hwe, ek parliament bney ga, CM HOUSE,bnaey ga.kahan ce ayen g paisy,phly GDP improve karen phr province.

2. Karachi ke population akeily he recored population he.dnya ke populace cities and bqe manda sind south punjb c ten tymz pasmanda jub me wa pe gae to mujy laga pakistan me gurbat he gurbat he,and houses ke bjae slums hen to wa p zaida zarorat.hamara IDPs bht bra pblm he.bluchstan banjar he. Kiyn na wa pe reformz lae jae ya ke populatn ko wa pe transfr kya jae.

__________________
"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

xtremely disappointed at Sadia's Shafique's post...
raw na mera koi rishtyadar nhin mara.then i hav a simpl quest keh main tu aaj tak aik he chese pedhi hai keh jo koi Kalma haq kehta hai aur manta hai uska rishta millat-e-baiza sa istawar hu jata hai.........tu kiya jo Musalman khin bhi shaeed hu ya wafat pai woh mera rishtaydar nhin huga./n if u claim to be liberal beyond horizonx let me assume that role too then Raw na mera bhi koi rishtaydar nhin mara tu kiya main uswaqr ka intzaar keroun jab Raw maire Bhai(Allah kray aisa kbhi na hu) ku maray...........
secondly abt Kashmir then dear humain is khushfehmi main rehnay ki zarurat hi nhin keh Kashmir kbhi bhi Pakistan ka hissa banaiga only possibl thing ix keh Kashmir ku aik independent state banaya jai .....narrating a real incident i met few kashmiris in an acad hamare buht achi bat hui bt when i asked them aap log kahan sa hu tu they said Kashmir n inturn when they asked abt me then they replied aap Pakistani hu...i wax lik is sa kiya farq perta hai hum aik hain tu they grew angry n they were lik nhin hum sab aik nhin hian.n then there was a list of complaints they hold for Pakistani ppl nt govt.......................
further abt Saraiki province in Punjab then we should nt overlook the pain n sufferingx of ppl who are living there wht we call culture of vederas n the way of tyranising ppl of which we only hav an idea frm dramax n deebates those ppl are even in this era are living lives lik ppl of a oppressor Vadaira....so they are ryt in claiming for their province n n 1 more thing aim favouring another prov but it doesnt mean that aim ignorant of political games that basically call for partition of Punjab bt itx that if even for pol games the step that ll b taken can atleast do somthing good tothose ppl then y to ignore benefits we can derive then to keeploking at dark sid of pic ..

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ŧєяα łuŧиαy ρя мαiи кЋusЋiyαи мαиαøu^иgє
bЋłα кя ŧαiяє jαƒαкαsЋi αρиαραøuиgє кЋαyαł иα кєяиα

me ne psitive and negative aspects batey hen aap plz unko gor ce paren taaky apko haqiqat ko andaza he...in post pe with logic aat karen ..me aap ko jawb daity hoo...me to khud wa ce taluk rakhty ho...kiya me scocially deprived nae hoo...plz read the posts again and draw inherent meaning and come to logic...sentiments show karny ka waqt gaya

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"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa"

The farce of new provinces

Posted By DAWN.COM On June 13, 2011
Feudally oppressed and underdeveloped, the areas are controlled by the very families that are leading the campaign for new provinces. - Photo by Madeeha Syed.
Robert. L. Stevenson once said, “Politics is perhaps the only profession for which no preparation is thought necessary.” Too bad Stevenson died long ago or else he would have seen his words coming true in Pakistan. Our politicians, not all but a majority, literally epitomise what Stevenson said. This new debate on creating new provinces in Pakistan proves the point.

“More provinces would weaken the center,” is a rather naïve arguments, especially if one takes into account what happened in 1971. But at the same time, seeing the quality and seriousness of the Pakistani political class eats the arguments favoring the new provinces. Feudally oppressed, deliberately kept underdeveloped and family owned, the areas which are expected to become new provinces are controlled by the very families that are leading the campaign for new provinces.

Take the example of Punjab. The largest province of Pakistan has 36 districts; a population of 81.3 million (56 per cent of the national population) and an area of 205,343 sq km (25.8 per cent land mass). There are voices demanding that Punjab be divided into three parts. There is one movement lead by erstwhile Nawab of Bahawalpur with Senator Muhammad Ali Durrani while the other is harbingered by the Legharis of Dera Ghazi Khan. One similarity that unites the leadership of both these movements: their former status as the rulers of the areas they now want as “their provinces.”

Those demanding a Sereiki province want 19 districts of Southern Punjab and two from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, respectively, to be joined together into a separate provincial unit. The other group wants the old state of Bahawalpur restored into a province by annulling military dictator General Yahya Khan’s legal framework order of 1970 that merged Bahawalpur into Punjab. The story does not end here because, there first group wants Bahawalpur in their greater Sereiki province and hence, a heated political debate is happening without a winner in sight.

Interestingly enough, those who fear a dominant Punjab and want more provinces out of its womb do not wish the same for gigantic Balochistan that is 43.6 per cent of Pakistan’s geography but only 5.3 per cent of its population. The reaction to Mian Shahbaz Sharif’s very well timed political statement about making Karachi into a separate province (April 24), eats itself because it deflates argument of the political leaders of smaller provinces when they demand division of Punjab into smaller provinces.

Otherwise rarely united, the MQM, PPP and ANP unanimously rejected Shahbaz’s statement and stood for the unity of “one Sindh.” They conveniently underestimated the unanimity in Punjab on the issue of its division and their reactions slapped their stances, vis-à-vis Punjab’s division, in the face. Shahbaz Sharif denied having proposed a separate Karachi province on April 25 but his master stroke exposed the political leadership of the Sindh province. What would be their argument now?

Constitutionally, the path toward creating the new province is, if not totally, but nearly impossible in the present state of politics. Creation of the new provinces involves a constitutional amendment that requires a two thirds majority of both National Assembly and Senate of Pakistan before the bill is sent to the President for his approval. But before this happens, the relevant provincial assembly must adopt a provincial bill, to alter its limits, by two-thirds majority. The Article 239(4) of the Constitution clearly states this fact. A cursory look at the party position in the Punjab Assembly amuses that PML-N has 171 members from the house of 371 members. This makes 46.1 per cent of the total. With this basic fact clear on the political radar, there is an open invitation to fools to keep finding a required two-thirds majority to divide Punjab with Mian Shahbaz Sharif as the Chief Minister.

The story does not end here. The Seriki province seekers want two districts of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa as well. The KP government killed nearly a dozen people in April 2010 on the issue of the name of province that was unacceptable to the Hazara belt in KP. Imagine what the ANP government would do if someone tries to wrest two districts off the KP province.

The Nawab of Bahawalpur wants his old state back with a “pure visionary” like Muhammad Ali Durrani leading the process. Durrani warned President Zardari against including Bahawalpur in the Sereiki province and brandished the “resilience of the people of Bahawalpur.” The PPP, MQM and ANP have already demonised Shahbaz Sharif on the issue of a Karachi province while, the “divide Punjab” brigade does not have the required number in the provincial assembly.

In the end, this is nothing more than a political farce. If nothing else, it would keep the people busy, heatedly debating the issue and probably taking out a few processions here and there. The scorching sun of Southern Punjab and sweetness of mangoes would largely keep the “resilient people” inside their homes. Because a home, even without electricity, is better than the heat, dust, police batons, fumes of tear gas and a night in mosquito-filled lock up. Political leaders are what nations give themselves. Our politicians are wanderers and so is our nation.

The writer is a researcher and is currently working on issues pertaining to violence, extremism and ethnic conflicts in Pakistan.


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