you are right, there is huge difference between the periods prior to and aftwards 1977. However, the leaders before 1977 used islam for their personal gains as well.

in 1954, when anti ahmadi movement started in Pakistan, Justice muneer reported as. "the consequences of this segregation on the basis of religion is nothing but disastrous for pakistan. if it wants to develop, it must shed this." the movement resulted in a martial law in Lahore, the first ever in the history of pakistan ostensibly to protect religion, and later on in the declaration of ahmadis as non-muslims by Bhutto in 74. this declaration was also to get a firm pinch on the politics by bhutto.

consider ayub's role in combating political thoughts of Fatima Jinnah by getting it declared from the religious parties that a women can not contest for presidential position.

hello everybody..

what is the role of religion in Pakistani politics. Has it been productive? Has it transformed the society into a unity? Whether it has been positive or negative? Is there a role of religion in Pak politics?

and most importantly, what is the way forward? Should we separate state and religion or both be unified?

Q: what is the role of religion in Pakistani politics...?

Ans: islam as a religion is an idealogy and the role of religion is as important for pakistan as capitalism, communism or socialism, or zinoism for other nations.

Q: Has it been productive? Has it transformed the society into a unity? Whether it has been positive or negative? Is there a role of religion in Pak politics?

Ans: brother !.... islam is productive for social and political upleft, as it creates a sense of saza and jaza (punishment and reward) in the hereafter... it is another thing that nobody fears the day of judgement... islam talks about equality and peace, it is another thing that people have forgotten these values.. islam is always against curruption, favouratism, nepotism, injustice, exploitation and tyranny.. ofcourse, these values has penetrated into our thought when capitalism triupmed in the world... a person who is suffering from malairia disease and you are serving him just sleeping pills.. exactely that is happening with ours...

yet these universal values has not transformed pakistani society into unity but it is playing a role of that level... how...? it is very simple to undersatand once you acknowledge that "musalmans are brothers" and strive to prove that when you judge between your relatives and another pakistani...

islam is positive and only positive religion that i challenge any misconception... what did really confused us is we know very lettle about islam... religion in the west is another experience i.e, christanity vs impact of islamic values...

regarding your last Q, what is the role of religion in pakistani politics..?

Ans: yes, there has always been a role of religion in pakistan... but it is always used for individual benefit... how..? most of pakistanis are illiterate and the rest are educated illiterate... then people or a group of people come into streets knowing the heart beat of the common man and use the rehtoric of religion again and again... they exploit islamic sentiments just for gaining or consolidating power which has resulted in unending and meaningless notions wars, had created confusion, had widened the gape between different schools of thought ( i am not calling them sects as par christian concept) and now the people of pakistan do not trust them at all,

so this had created another confusion which has benifited those who belive islam is outdated and follow western concept of liberty equality or peace etc. these western notions itself are known to the world due to the impact of islam on the west... but these western values are not refined as pure as islam is...

moreover, the role of religion or against religion is a political card used by the rulars.... very few knew about "moderation" which is the real essence of islam.. the people, i think, know it but the rulars do not...

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Q: is there any concept of democracy in islam...?

Ans: yes, as far as islamic practices are concerned.... lets start from the city state of Madina... when our Holy Prophet (SAW) migrated to madina, he organised muslims under two groups (parties) i.e, ANSAR and MAHAJIREEN.... clear... it was a tacit message that islamic state should have two party sytem.... after wisal of Prophet (SAW) mahajireen and ansars gathered in a place to decide about the post of Khalifa... it was an indirect democracy,,, after all no country in the world has adopted democracy as it is practiced today... i am not saying that itodays democracy is all good.... probably Yazid was the first who had broken these gulden rules which were evolving.... and to this day the muslim world particularly pakistan has seen many Yazids... so the people who are against these islamic values are the actual enemy of islam... how.... ?

i may quote a reference from islamic history,,,

during the battle of Badar our Holy Prophet SAW has called upon the muslims of Madina to stand aginst Kufar... it is the injunction of Holy Qur'an and a habit of Holy Prophet SAW that whenever he had to take a big decision, he always used consult with Sahaba (RA).. so he asked the muslim gathering to where they shall fight, in Madina or outside Madina... so all the Muslims (except few Munafiqeen) agreed to fight outside Madina...at this occasion our holy Prophet SAW said that "my Ummah can never agree on a wrong decision".... so what does this mean... here this historical refference has amny meanings of which Question of mejority is clear, and who are going to oppose..? only Munafiqeen... which are few and always rule us..

then the first speach of AbuBakar RA (download it and see what it says and what is important for us in it)

then Omar RA... when he was Khalifa he was Questioned during Jumma Prayers which he had to answer.. he was called by the chief justice Ali RA in a case filed by a jew and Ali RA decided in favour of that jew... so there are hundereds of examples from islamic history which qualifies todays version of democracy... and the people who disfavour such values are actually interpreting Qua'an and Ahadiths without islamic history.... after all most of pakistanies are illiterate and the rest educated illiterate... if anybody has read Iqbal... iqbal was against western style of democracy in which he foresee figures like Toniblair, Bush and Obama in the future....

then who is DAJJAL, i think a new type of FIRAON (Paroah) who will be witnessed by the world very soon is a dictator.

in fact islamic democracy and state rests on a strong pillar of justice...as I said earlier punishment and reaward...
can you belive that the president, PM, CNC or any other figure (Big Fish) in past present or future can be brought to justice... where is civil society's movement and the movement for the restoration of independent judiciary...?

in short, i think it is islam or our attachment with islam as well as understanding of islam that is light (knowledge).... our rulars as well as Paroahs of todays world keep the people in dark inside their respective countries.... so we cannot separate religion from politics... otherwise we can be subjugated by the tyrants and smart democratic rulars....

if you have any misconception, confusion or objection over the role of islam in pakistani politics... plz post your question... i am here to answer... thanx

Pakistan's case is really special. Various Islamic laws are in force in a number of countries and working smoothly but we see whenever an Islamic law promulgated in Pakistan, it was followed by a wave of violence. What is the reason behind? Some fellows pointed earlier that there is nothing wrong in Islamic teachings. And pointed rightly. The problem lies in fascist attitude of Islamist in particular, and of the public in general.

Take example of what happened after passing of Objective resolution. Islamist considered this resolution as a license to impose their religious ideology and started a movement demanding Ahmadies to be declared a minority. This was not any democratic movement. Rather It adopted a direct action strategy as a result of which thousands of Ahmadies were killed in Lahore and their property looted, and for which Maududi, leading the Direct Action Council, was sentenced to be hanged till death

And when Zia attempted to promulgate Zakat and Usher ordinance, Shia community resisted. Chairman Thareek e Jafria, Arif Husan Husani threatened Zia of revealing some of his secretes (related to Afghan Jihaad) and then Arif was murdered and this was followed by a wave of sectarian violence in the country spreading over more than two decades.

And I need hardly narrate what happened after enactment of Blasphemy law. Although this law was intended to provide for a legal proceedings against acts of blasphemy but Islamist again considered it a license to kill anyone who they think committed blasphemy. (How many decisions were taken by courts and how many by individuals and mob?)

In view of these examples from history of this country, I am reasonably convinced that even if as harmless an Islamic law as wearing hijab is enacted, this will be followed by a wave of public violence against women who do not wear Hijab. No one will bother about filing a legal case and every case will be decided right on the spot where a women is found not wearing Hijab. Nothing such happens in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Pakistan is really special.

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He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.

Good post by Jazib.
I would like to add here that after 1979 some foregin elements have started pouring money here to enforce their own version of Islam and that have destroyed the fabric of Pakistani society that was tolerant and liberal. Nobody can imagine in 1960s or 70s that the shrines of religious personalities would be attacked in Pakistan but now it has become a routine.
We should try to bring back that time when we were living in peace without sectarian thinking.

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/// Aur be ghum hain zamanay main muhabat kay siwa ///

dear jazib roomi brother...you are right in pointing this problem.... it is very simple to understand that our society and culture has given a pious duty and role to "mullah".. he always act in his personal capicity to impose martial law in his respective village... he do so for many social and political purposes... as people repect him due to his regular five time prayers, his appearance as a true/devoted muslim... his bombastic speaches really hypnatise illeterate muslims who just know about five time time prayers, doing his hallal labour and earn for his children... they have a place in islamic history.... do you know who was Abdullah bin Obay bin Salol (leader of hypocrtes/Munafiqeen) his job in Madina was to confuse or discourage muslims during a turning point of history (cruial time).... then they were also spying for the Makkan unbelievers, they were always used to criticise any political move of the muslims in the city state of Madina... so all this had not not changed yet.... still we have many, doing the same job.... now think how many of them today in my area, your town or any other person's locality... mullahs are everywhere... so our dudy is to educate people about the dangrous games they are playing with the people, not only on this issue but all other issues... so try to be at least caucious of that and give time to the poor people to educate them.... and if you want more reasons to why such violence happens in such times... then think objectively... i think most of such insidents happened during martial law time... but if today such thing happened again then the reason is, along with the above resons and so, they have takken hold of their so called power base.. they are not going to lose at any cost...

but the most important issue still remain that what is the role of religion in pakistani politics...?

for a true pakistani and devoted muslim it is imporatant to learn by themsevel what is islam and to teach their children Holy Qur'an recicitation, meaning, and Shan e Nazool... then important is to learn from the life of the Holy Prophet (SAW)... thanx to the huge islamic books and records that have been preserved by our incestors... go and search for them... otherwise we could be easily mobilised by these mullahs...

i beg my pardon for omitions and errors.. thanx

sorry for short/late replies... loadshedding you know

on the role of mullah: in pakistani politics, many of them caught in war against terrorism along with prof that they were agents of india, were playing the role of mullah and were well aware of islamic basics... they come to our country, whenever see a vacant seat in a Masjid, they get imamath there...there is no registration of such mullahs, they built madrassas on waqaf lands... bcz we need them to teach our children the Holy Qur'an which they do... so i have a solution for it... now a days there are plenty of mullahs, but if you do not know who the hell they are, never give them emplyment in a masjid... secondly, whenever you see they have aqcuired a powerfull position, remove him from the seat through the village/society council... after all it is not an easy job.. you will face tremendous resistance from that mullaha and from the like minded people... never give him the reason why he had been removed but make a simple pretext... the point is never give him the oppertunity to acquire a status.. now we have to manage our mosques... it is the people who can bring this kind of social change...

Dear French

I don't have pdf of Dr Qadri's book. Its price, I think, is about a thousand Rs. its name is "Human Rights in Islam"

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Ahmad Shakeel Babar
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"If you really want to achieve something the whole universe conspires for you to get your dream realized."