State must be secular - Page 10

Fatima47 · #91 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahzaib Abbasi

3. Islam does provide equal citizenship to all its inhabitants but that is subject to their ability to discharge their duties to a state. For instance, a non-muslim can not fight for Islam and hence is not included in the standing army.

Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, Jizyah is paid by non-Muslims for they are under protection of the state. In case a non-Muslim wishes to fight standing by Muslim army, he is not supposed to pay Jizyah then.

Shahzaib Abbasi · #92 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureapak

agreed.

but can you please look beyond and find out what the muslims of mecca were fighting for ???
purpose behind their adventure was for the collective good of the human being in the long run.....
for a great cause if you are sacrificing your lives and property.. it is not risk.. it is a righteous contribution.. in other words an investment....

after the conquest of mecca.. did you not see how magnificent result the muslim sacrifices brought about !!!!!!

They were surely not fighting for secularism brother. They were fighting for Islam and the continued to fight even after the conquest of Makkah as demonstrated by the conquest of Iraq, Iran and Syria up to the current state of Israel.

Giving up your life is not mandatory for a contribution to Islam, being a "Ghazi" is not a deplorable state, so the effort that one makes in the way of Islam is risky as it may or may not result in the loss of life or property. Hence there are risks involved and which is why those who take these risks are looked upon as great men.

pureapak · #93 Thursday, September 15, 2011

there have been some princely states in the history...
In which Muslim leader lead the non muslim majority...
How could he manage to defend the state without enhancing his army by recruiting non muslim soldiers ????
As a muslim owns the state so does a non muslim...

tak an example of USA england and so on...
are all jews and christains in armed forces ????
how about india in which a major portion of warriors is muslim....
!!!!

should we call them more democratic and mature than us !!!!

Shahzaib Abbasi · #94 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatima47

Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, Jizyah is paid by non-Muslims for they are under protection of the state. In case a non-Muslim wishes to fight standing by Muslim army, he is not supposed to pay Jizyah then.

I am researching this. Generally non-muslims are not allowed to fight in an Islamic army... because the Islamic army fights for Islam and a non-muslim can not be expected to fight for Islam. There have been exceptions though, during the time of Umayyads, christians have been said to have fought alongside Muslim soldiers... but then again Umayyad's time wasn't exactly truly Islamic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureapak

there have been some princely states in the history...
In which Muslim leader lead the non muslim majority...
How could he manage to defend the state without enhancing his army by recruiting non muslim soldiers ????
As a muslim owns the state so does a non muslim...

tak an example of USA england and so on...
are all jews and christains in armed forces ????
how about india in which a major portion of warriors is muslim....
!!!!

should we call them more democratic and mature than us !!!!

Brother... there is a difference between Muslim and Islam. While Islam is unaltered and pure, Muslims have of late been anything but pure. If a muslim doesn't act in accordance to Islam, that doesn't mean Islam is wrong or its principles are no longer valid.

pureapak · #95 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahzaib Abbasi

They were surely not fighting for secularism brother. They were fighting for Islam and the continued to fight even after the conquest of Makkah as demonstrated by the conquest of Iraq, Iran and Syria up to the current state of Israel.

Giving up your life is not mandatory for a contribution to Islam, being a "Ghazi" is not a deplorable state, so the effort that one makes in the way of Islam is risky as it may or may not result in the loss of life or property. Hence there are risks involved and which is why those who take these risks are looked upon as great men.

Talibans are claiming to profess the true Islam.. and the world today knows them as terrorists...
Due to talbanization we are having our survial at a risk...
should we entitle them as great men ???

when i said the risk.. it was in this texture... you are flipping it the wrong way dear

Shahzaib Abbasi · #96 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureapak

Talibans are claiming to profess the true Islam.. and the world today knows them as terrorists...
Due to talbanization we are having our survial at a risk...
should we entitle them as great men ???

when i said the risk.. it was in this texture... you are flipping it the wrong way dear

Taliban of Afghanistan are indeed great men who have defied a superpower with the power of faith alone. The U.S itself is now eager to engage them in dialogue. In fact it has been recently reported that they offered them an office in Qatar.

The risk they took by not handing over Bin Ladin was based upon faith and now even the Americans consider 9/11 nothing short of a conspiracy. We should not ashamed if we terrorize the west, it is the least we can do after they've ravaged Muslim countries around the world and they continue to support the state of Israel in its torture of Palestinians.

We have to ask ourselves, do we care about what the world calls us or about the "hukum" of Allah?

pureapak · #97 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahzaib Abbasi

Brother... there is a difference between Muslim and Islam. While Islam is unaltered and pure, Muslims have of late been anything but pure. If a muslim doesn't act in accordance to Islam, that doesn't mean Islam is wrong or its principles are no longer valid.

Dear you mean in those conditions too a muslim leader should have kept the non muslims away from army..

and had instill in them the sense of disappointment and inferiority...

Shahzaib Abbasi · #98 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureapak

Dear you mean in those conditions too a muslim leader should have kept the non muslims away from army..

and had instill in them the sense of disappointment and inferiority...

I am not saying this --- This is the practice of Nabi S.A.W. Firstly, how did a Muslim ruler come in control of a region where there were no muslims or their numbers were few? If he did, then he should be able to sustain his control with the army that he has i.e. army of muslims. Besides, why should the non-muslims feel disappointed and inferior...aren't their other jobs available in a state?

pureapak · #99 Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahzaib Abbasi

Taliban of Afghanistan are indeed great men who have defied a superpower with the power of faith alone.

dont you remember USA full scale support and Pak army Back worked a bit in this defeat of soveit ?

Quote:

We should not ashamed if we terrorize the west, it is the least we can do after they've ravaged Muslim countries around the world and they continue to support the state of Israel in its torture of Palestinians.

How will make the difference if we tried to imitate some one so wicked and bestial ???
How can we call us good muslims by going the way the non muslims prefered for their ill wills.. and we forgot to settle down the disputes as the muslims used to do in the cases of Treaty of HUdaibiya. charter of madina and the great conquest of mecca ?

if you are rejecting the application by a citizen of the state by saying that he does not qualify on the basis of the difference over religion...

will this move fill him with confidence if not the sense of disappointment and inferiority..

Islam is basically a religion of justice and equality..

Shahzaib Abbasi · #**100** Thursday, September 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureapak

dont you remember USA full scale support and Pak army Back worked a bit in this defeat of soveit ?

How will make the difference if we tried to imitate some one so wicked and bestial ???
How can we call us good muslims by going the way the non muslims prefered for their ill wills.. and we forgot to settle down the disputes as the muslims used to do in the cases of Treaty of HUdaibiya. charter of madina and the great conquest of mecca ?

I do remember that full scale support. What about it?

You call them wicked and bestial because that is what you've heard from the media. Indeed the taliban of afghanistan are loved their countrymen which is why the americans could not win the "hearts and minds" of the Afghans. I request you to read Abidullah Jan's work "The Genesis of the Final Crusade", many of your misconceptions about the taliban of Afghanistan will be removed. InshAllah.

Treaty of Hudabiya and Charter of Madinah are indeed beacons of light for us muslims today as to situations where Muslims are not able to "fight" for their rights but are also not fought against for implementing Islam. Even if we wish to sue for peace today, the armies of Israel, America and India will not cease their attacks...what are we to do now then fight!

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