This is not Hamza Salick's post, but of Ilyaas Sami. CSS Forums - View Single Post - State must be secular
Hamza just asked Ilyaas avoid using net speak.

Islam is very simple but we have made it so much complicated that people are unable to differentiate between a moderator and an extremist though it is not very difficult.Islam forbids its followers from killing innocent people whether muslims on non muslims,it uphold justice and order its followers to offer prayers and such other obligatory worships.i never understand where is ambiguity in all this?
as about partition tu mere bhai patriotism bhi koi cheez hoti hai.those scholars who opposed partition were satisfied in India.they thought their religion has no harm in united India so they were against partition.but other muslims felt that they would be unable to practice their religion freely and would have fewer right in united India so they supported and struggled for partition.its all about personal choices they made some gave preference to religion and some gave importance to their homeland.

@ JazibRoomi

ohhh Sorry bhayya mistake hogaee.chalo jis ki bhi thi usi ko jawab diya hai.

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"Our affairs r attached to the destiny decreed by Allah even our best plans may lead us to destruction.Ali(a.s)

@kalem and suman.

A modern Muslim is not comfortable with religion that we see Talibans and orthodox Muslims representing in this age. He wants a reasonable change in his life style. Modern education for all, women empowerment, freedom of will and expression, full citizenship to non Muslim countrymen etc etc...
Our religious scholars and traditionalists come in conflict with certain changes.
this is how a secular thought emerges in his mind.

He can not change the mainstream with rhetoric only.
If you want to introduce some changes in ur social and political existences under the Islamic state especially pakistan... you have to bring real message of Islam in texture.

.Implement modern Education in madarssas where from the religious scholars are graduated.
.Make english compulsory as without it scientific education and linguistic access to the international community is much more difficult.
give them inter net facilities let them bring world knowledge at their finger tips.
let them see the world with modern outlook as we people do after our education from universities.
let them study the contemporary world and understand the demands of modern society.
in the days to come these well educated religious scholars can develop the possibilities for a change under the religious ambit of Islam...



you should not blame the extremist and fanatic muslims for opposing this trend...
all you should is to give this a try at your part coz you are at least not extremist and conservative ....

yeah purepak absolutely right i do agree with you. The existing gulf between Madrassh and modern technological education must be diminished.

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Janoon say or Ishq say milti hay AAZADI

Totally Illogical

Meri Jan Agar Quaid e Azam Secular State chahaty hoty na tu lakhoon tu kia ik Admi bhi Jan na deta. Ham tu ya baat kar ky lakhoon loogon ky khun ky saath gadari karty hain. or muzraat kay sath hamin kuch sharam bhi naheen ati..

ya OLD HOUSES par yakeen rakhany waly ju ky Maan baap say tang a jaty hain wo mulk, ky lia millat Islamia ky lia itni bari qurbani dain NA MUMKIN.

Maan lian janab man lain ya wo jazba tha jis ku Secular loog samajh hi naheen sakty...because they believe in material things rather spirtuality.ya kia janian muhabaat kia, ruhaniat kia,esaar kia, insaniat kia qurbani kia hoti hay. Musilman piyasa mar jata hay medane jang main magar us waqt bhi dosray piasy ka khayal rakhta hay. Musliman naleek sahe magar ISLAM ajj bhi soraj ki tarha roshan or tamam pareshneon ka ha hal hay.

PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA LA ILAH HA ILALAH

is nary ku nikal do Ik murda dhancha bach jae ga..wo bhi gala sara hoa



I believe ju loog secular state ki baat kartay hain wo asal main Modern states say compete karna chahaty hain tu bhai ISLAM nain kab roka hay janab

Freedom of expression

Empowerment of Women(rather Islam nain sab say pehly orat ky hakook ki baat ki-ab west tu orat ku nanga kar ky source of Income banana chata hay magar Islam is baat ku tu naheen man sakta na g)

Modern education

Industrial Development

say.

HAm kam choor hain or ilzam Islam par dalty hain.Islam nain tu state ku Develop karnay kay behtreen asool bate hain..

Secularism ki kuch acheen batain tu Islam main already mujud hain....



APNAY AP KU BADLNAY KI ZAROORAT HAY....

kafir ho tu karta hay shasheer pay bharosa
muslim ho tu by teg bhi larta hay sipahee

is baat ku kia janeen mery secular bhai...
jis baat py wo believe hi naheen karty main kaysy samjhoon...

magar ISLAM isi EMAAN ki qowat say Zinda hy or Rahy ga

Well instead of harping about on whether Pakistan should be a secular or a theocratic state, i think we should stop for a moment and contemplate ... The world has evolved, Muslims who were once the rulers of the world were also once degraded to the level of slaves. Our beaureaucratic setup, our government system and our daily lifestyle and trends have all been adopted from the dominant western civilisation. The basic Islamic values of Justice, Equality, Tolerance, Truthfulness, Rule of Law are all found in the western political and social systems...But do we see them here ?? No! why? Because we never look for guidance in the Quran and The Holy Prophet's Sunnah...Had we done so, we would have realised that a system is defined by its values, not by persons or stuctural preferences. We donot need a khalifah to put us right, (from the leftist to the rightist, there isn't anyone worthy of becoming one), what we need is a setup, which is based on islamic values and has the power to implement them !

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell

My dear Ch sb thanks..main tu ik hakeer or kam Aqal sa insaan hoon..loog un ku bhi Stupid kehty hain jinhoon nain is mulk ku or is ki Ideology ku bachany ki baat ki or qurbanian deen....

baki ya stupid/farsooda hony ka tamga tu haar us insan ku milta hy ju Millat ki ya Islam ki baat is door main karta hay...No Problem


Thanks again...

I respect the ideology of Pakistan but it should not be taken analogues to ideology of Islam. Emotions apart, the Muslim Leaders like Bacha Khan, , Moulana Azad etc who favoured united India were staunch Muslims and their Character was impeachable. Contrarily many in Muslim League holding important offices at the time of Independence were not with questionable integrity.

Undoubtedly Quid-e-azam was a great leader but simultaneously a human. If he ever commited any mistake it should not serve to undermine his greatness rather reinforce it as to err is human.His changing ideologies corroborate this fact.Learning is life long process and when it ends , so does the intellectual development. Once Great Bpxer Muhammad Ali was quoted as saying

"If you think the same way at the age of 50 as you did at 30 then you have wasted 20 years of life."

His integrity was byond the shadow of any doubt but being a human he committed few of mistakes. For example the first 7 members cabinet constituted by the Quid included Malik GHulam Muhammad who latter on wreaked havoc to the state. Quid know to be the person who abides by the law used to preside over the cabinet that did nt fall under his jurisdiction.Likewise , dismissal of elected Govt of Khoro is criticized.

I want to make a point here that we should stuck to our own point of view rather listen the other view, evaulate them and then reach at conclusion. This process must be dictated by logic not by the emotions.

I love Quid as any other Pakistani do , but pointing at his perceived mistakes(even i may be wrong in terming his actions as mistakes) just make us realise that humans are human not angels. They must be respected but not worshiped , not believed blindly.


I often wonder ,why we are denied access to truth and kept in dark. Our text books on history are replete with white lies. This shouldnt be the case. Instilling Patriotism by distorting historical facts is something bemusing and ridiculous. It is because of this flawed approach that we our intellectually unde developed.

We are not just ready to accommodate dissenting voices and just try to stick to our point and wants other just to believe us. This deny a meaningful debate , flow of information and intellectual development.

The bottom line is this that in order to grow intellectually , we must see at both sides of picture , open heatedly and then reach to a conclusion.

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Hoee hay jab say mukhalif hawa zamanay key......
Humain bhee dhun see hoee hay diaa jalaanay key

After few months from his 11th August speech, during his address to Karachi Bar Association on 25th January, 1948, he clarified this matter with the following statement:

‘I could not understand a section of the people who deliberately wanted to create mischief and propaganda that the constitution of Pakistan would not be made on the basis of Shariat. ’
(25th January, 1948 at Karachi Bar Association)

After such a profound and clear negation, if our leaders and other Secular minded people are still singing the anthem of 11th September Address, then their matter can only be forwarded to Allah (SWT).

There are no more than 100 statements issued by Quad-e-Azam from 1940 to 1947, in which he clearly mentioned that Islamic System would be implemented in Pakistan. These statements are present on record and are integral part of the Pakistan Movement. Further more, Quad-e-Azam, lived just 13 months after Pakistan got her freedom from the British Rule, and during this small period there exist 40 more statements made by him, from which, it is clear without doubt, that he wanted to make Pakistan an Islamic Republic State. Those people are still alive who have witnessed Quad-e-Azam saying “Pakistan’s Constitution had already been developed 1400 years ago.”

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The Demand Of Faith Is To Bow Down After Hearing The Command. Faith Cannot Co-Exist With Ifs And Buts.