Islamic world extends from the western Pacific to the shores of Atlantic. Having gigantic natural resources, even then, it has failed to rise as a significant power in global Politics. If we have a closer look, the most visible reason of this is, either complete or distorted version of democracy practised in these countries. What are the reasons for this gloomy scenario??? Please discuss on this thread.....

yes you are right brother

In the whole history of Islam, Muslim states are not defeated by foreign enimies
but their internal revolts, wrong decision of their leaders, leaders indulge in anti-social activities and blah blah.

the most obvious reason is thier dream to stick to the government becoming dictators.

such a thing, you see, now a days, has happened in Libya.

Muammar Gaddafi was the dictator for a long time. this must not be the situation.

every leader must govern its period of 4 to 5 years and then must hand over the government to some one other by a legal process according to the peoples choice.

Because democracy is not compatible with Islam (Now I know people will come up saying who follows Islam here). The democracy we talk about is nothing but an illusion, seriously (and thats why I call it demo-crazy).

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"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

yes

fatima is saying right

this is what I often think

i often think that this democracy is not that waht we see in Islam while choosing a leader

comment on it

I want to start a discussion on the topic

modern world's democracy vs Islamic democracy

Because we are slow learners,and our 'martial traditions' haven't allowed us to accept a more humane system of governance.

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I shall either find a way,or make one
'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa'

This hadith tells us the reasons and the consequences as well... and this is what is going on in our country and many other Muslim countries...

Abdullah ibn Umar (R.A) said that the Prophet P.B.U.H. addressed us saying:
"O Muhajirun! Beware of five practices, to be afflicted with, I take refuge in Allah that you may not be hit with; if ever lewdness spread among people till it is regarded as a common open practice, plagues and new diseases which did not exist before will spread among them. If they decrease the measures and weights(when buying or selling), they will be overcome by poverty, their provision will decrease and their ruler will be unjust. If they refrain from paying Zakah due on their properties, they will be deprived of rain, and if it were not for the sake of the cattle, they would not have any rain. If they renounce their commitment to Allah and His Messenger, they will be governed by an enemy who is stranger to them and who will take away some of what they possess. If their rulers do not rule according to Allah's Book, they will be afflicted by civil war"

reported by Ibn Majah, "Book of Afflictions (al-Fitan)" hadith no. 4009

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"Do not look down upon any Muslims, perhaps Allah will forgive them for their ignorance, but punish you for your arrogance"

Wel there is quite a big difference between Islamic ideology of democracy and that of modern world. Though the word is same in meanings in both systems i.e; islamic and modern world but different in functioning. Islamic democracy is known as Majilis e shura'a, the Islamic religious body of advisory council. The leader selected by this shura is known as khalif, and he is elected by the decision of whole body on the basis of His(one's) best knowledge of Islamic rules.

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You've got to get the stage in life where GOING for it is more important than WINNIG or LOSING.

thanks dear Malmeen Khan

but i need a bit more clarification on this issue.

just what would be the system practically if Islamic democracy is followed in Pakistan.
means as now a days election of national and provincial assemblies are held.
people select a MPA and MNA. out of these Cm, Pm are selected and ministers are also selected from this pool of MPA AND MNA.

in this way what is the procedure if we are implementing Islamic democracy in Pakistan .


please anybody do reply

I did not completely understand your question but here goes my reply.

How do you define democracy and how do you define Islamic Democracy?

There is no single absolute definition of democracy and Lincoln's definition of democracy actually makes me conclude that it is nothing but an illusion.

Generally speaking, a democracy (any democracy) is defined with sovereign powers to legislate in the hands of a public assembly (parliament, congress etc). I believe the vast majority of assemblies in the world are trustees, where elected representatives would pursue what they believe to be the interests of theri constituents, even if the constituents are unsure or may even disagree. This is the system we have in Pakistan, as much as you might dislike it. It functions more or less like a real textbook democracy. Everything else is nice, such as where trustees base their decisions on principles and the needs of their constituents (as opposed to party discipline or self-interest), where entrenched agendas do not shape policy (e.g businessses with lots of resources using lobbies), or even an assembly where certain policies such as healthcare etc are not needlessly disputed. However these are not intrinsic to a democracy. So I would much rather we build friom ground-up based on Quran and Sunnah.

Pakistani Democracy: With 45 percent fake votes and the voter turn out ratio of approximately 35 percent, the real ratio is around 18 percent (and I do not need to tell you who are these 18 percent people). Still we keep hearing "People's Representatives". *Sigh*


*****


I can sit here and say that Islamic form of government (or Khilafah) is more democratic than democracy, but is irrelevant discussion on several counts.

Since when did the democracy become the standard bearer for everything, including Islam? What stops us from saying "we want proper implementation of Islam"? Why is it such a problematic topic for people to digest?A lot of people are fixated on making Islam and democracy sound good together because someone gave us this idea that democracy is the ideal system. Who said it was? Better yet, how did this whole issue of democracy become so popular after the 1950s and not an issue for the past 1300 years of Islamic history among the classical scholars, e.g Ibn Kathir, Nawawi, Imam Shafi etc? Because at that time our worry was not what others thought about us (whether we are democratic or not_ but what Allah (S.W.T) thoughtf of us Muslims.

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"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Does Quran or Sunnah tell you that a leader can only rule for 4 or 5 years (I am not advocating Gaddafi's rule)?

Electing the state head, representatives etc is permitted, encouraged and to an extent obligatory in Islam. Islam requires that caliph be approved of by the ummah and that ummah has the right to revoke its allegiance in case the caliph breaks Islamic law. There is this shura or majlis, or you can say an assembly composed of elected representatitves which consult and advise the caliph. However, these are paraellel branches. The caliph is elected by people on one hand, and the majlis representatives elected by their constituents on the other. In other words, its not a parliamentary system. The job of caliph and his representatives is to follow and implement Islam and ensure the well being of ummag. Matters if farz or obligation are a given, things such as healthcare, education etc, he government must commit for all people whether Muslims or non-Muslims.

The Majlis has no political powers, it cant block the gov's policies (except when they are against Shariah). But yes, it can demand accountability in terms of transparency, public explanation etc. At the same time, the caliph and government are expected to rely on expert advice when it comes to policies relating to economy, defence, industry etc. Mujlsi can demand the gov prove this with every one of its policies.

What I am saying is that Islamic system is a totally different system than democracy. It permits political parties, open discussions, an assembly of elected representatives and even an elected state leader, but at the same time the powers of each branch are difefrent than how democracy organizes these powers.

By the way, to begin with, if Constitution of Pakistan is implemented in letter and spirit, it will get us rid of 99 percent of political clowns.

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"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."